Mark 11:23 which mountain

Are you learning Koine Greek, the Greek of the New Testament and most other post-classical Greek texts? Whatever your level, use this forum to discuss all things Koine, Biblical or otherwise, including grammar, textbook talk, difficult passages, and more.
Post Reply
C. S. Bartholomew
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 1248
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:03 pm

Mark 11:23 which mountain

Post by C. S. Bartholomew » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:20 pm

This post is a branch from the Victor of Antioch's "Mark Commentary" : where is the greek? which had become somewhat diverse. http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-foru ... 63#p180389

Mark 11:21 καὶ ἀναμνησθεὶς ὁ Πέτρος λέγει αὐτῷ· ῥαββί, ἴδε ἡ συκῆ ἣν κατηράσω ἐξήρανται. 22 καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς ὁ Ἰησοῦς λέγει αὐτοῖς· ἔχετε πίστιν θεοῦ. 23 ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ὃς ἂν εἴπῃ τῷ ὄρει τούτῳ· ἄρθητι καὶ βλήθητι εἰς τὴν θάλασσαν, καὶ μὴ διακριθῇ ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ αὐτοῦ ἀλλὰ πιστεύῃ ὅτι ὃ λαλεῖ γίνεται, ἔσται αὐτῷ. 24 διὰ τοῦτο λέγω ὑμῖν, πάντα ὅσα προσεύχεσθε καὶ αἰτεῖσθε, πιστεύετε ὅτι ἐλάβετε, καὶ ἔσται ὑμῖν. 25 Καὶ ὅταν στήκετε προσευχόμενοι, ἀφίετε εἴ τι ἔχετε κατά τινος, ἵνα καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς ἀφῇ ὑμῖν τὰ παραπτώματα ὑμῶν.

In an attempt to make Jesus statement consistent with the eschatological reading of the withered fig tree some scholars have claimed he is making reference to the Temple Mount and using βλήθητι εἰς τὴν θάλασσαν as a metaphor for destruction. This reading hasn't gained a big following, R. T. France mentions it but rejects it claiming that Jesus was using a proverbial expression. Morna Hooker, William Telford and some more recent publications have supported some form of this reading.
Whatever its origin, the inclusion of the saying at this point suggests that Mark is now interpreting it of the temple mount. In contrast to Jewish expectation that at the Last Day "the mountain of the house of the Lord" would be exalted and "established as the highest of the mountains" (Micah 4:1), Jesus now pronounces judgement on it and declares that it will be submerged in the sea. The sea was the place of destruction (cf. 5.13; 9.42).

Morna D. Hooker, Gospel According to St. Mark, 1991, p. 270.
The similarity of language and theme between 1.21-28 and 11.15-19 suggests that Jesus' Temple act extends his struggle ... that a particular mountain is in mind, and the context indicates the Temple Mount.

Matthew Ryan Hauge, ‎Christopher W. Skinner, Character Studies and the Gospel of Mark 2014, Page 146.

See also: William Telford, A Redaction-Critical Analysis of the Cursing of the Fig-Tree Pericope in Mark's Gospel and Its Relation to the Cleansing of the Temple Tradition William Telford, JSOT 1980, pp. 95-119; Morna Hooker, 'Traditions about the Temple in the Sayings of Jesus', BJRL 70 (1988), pp.
The response of Jesus to Peter's statement at first glance appears to be "changing the subject" and disturbing the continuity of Mark's thematic development. The withering of the fig tree and the judgement of the temple both blend into a eschatological framework where the Temple and all it represented was going to be destroyed. The sea is an eschatological metaphor for a mythical monster which destroys reducing to chaos.
C. Stirling Bartholomew

Markos
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2941
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:07 pm
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: Mark 11:23 which mountain

Post by Markos » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:18 pm

Mk 11:23: ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι ὃς ἂν εἴπῃ τῷ ὄρει τούτῳ· ἄρθητι καὶ βλήθητι εἰς τὴν θάλασσαν, καὶ μὴ διακριθῇ ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ αὐτοῦ ἀλλὰ πιστεύῃ ὅτι ὃ λαλεῖ γίνεται, ἔσται αὐτῷ.
C. S. Bartholomew wrote:...which mountain?
1 Cor 13:2: καὶ ἐὰν ἔχω προφητείαν καὶ εἰδῶ τὰ μυστήρια πάντα καὶ πᾶσαν τὴν γνῶσιν, καὶ ἐὰν ἔχω πᾶσαν τὴν πίστιν ὥστε ὄρη μεθιστάναι, ἀγάπην δὲ μὴ ἔχω, οὐθέν εἰμι.
τίνα δ' ὄρη?

Post Reply