Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Are you reading Homeric Greek? Whether you are a total beginner or an advanced Homerist, here you can meet kindred spirits. Besides Homer, use this board for all things early Greek poetry.
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seanjonesbw
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Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Post by seanjonesbw » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:11 pm

Welcome to the Odyssey Reading Group! Anyone is welcome to join in at any time, regardless of their Greek ability. If you’re itching to explore Homer’s epic tale of survival, adventure, love, lust, kinship, betrayal and spooky dead people, hop on in, you’ll be very welcome. People who have some Greek but have never tried reading Homer before are doubly welcome.

Please feel free to ask any question in this thread, no matter how basic you think it is, and we will try to help you with an answer.
More Information About the Group
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Check the introductory thread for a description of how the group works.

We’re working from Geoffrey Steadman’s Odyssey Books 6-8, a freely-available pdf with vocabulary and notes

Resources for deeper study are available in the group dropbox folder

We started at Book 6. Here are all the threads so far:

Book 6
Lines 1-23
24-47
48-70
71-92
93-118
119-140
141-161
162-185
186-210
211-238
239-261
262-294
295-331 [end]

Book 7
1-26
27-47
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seanjonesbw
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Post by seanjonesbw » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:16 pm

47 τοῖσι δὲ μύθων ἦρχε θεά, γλαυκῶπις Ἀθήνη· 48 “οὗτος δή τοι, ξεῖνε πάτερ, δόμος, ὅν με κελεύεις 49 πεφραδέμεν· δήεις δὲ διοτρεφέας βασιλῆας 50 δαίτην δαινυμένους· σὺ δ ̓ ἔσω κίε, μηδέ τι θυμῷ 51 τάρβει· θαρσαλέος γὰρ ἀνὴρ ἐν πᾶσιν ἀμείνων 52 ἔργοισιν τελέθει, εἰ καί ποθεν ἄλλοθεν ἔλθοι. 53 δέσποιναν μὲν πρῶτα κιχήσεαι ἐν μεγάροισιν· 54 Ἀρήτη δ ̓ ὄνομ ̓ ἐστὶν ἐπώνυμον, ἐκ δὲ τοκήων 55 τῶν αὐτῶν οἵ περ τέκον Ἀλκίνοον βασιλῆα. 56 Ναυσίθοον μὲν πρῶτα Ποσειδάων ἐνοσίχθων 57 γείνατο καὶ Περίβοια, γυναικῶν εἶδος ἀρίστη, 58 ὁπλοτάτη θυγάτηρ μεγαλήτορος Εὐρυμέδοντος, 59 ὅς ποθ ̓ ὑπερθύμοισι Γιγάντεσσιν βασίλευεν. 60 ἀλλ ̓ ὁ μὲν ὤλεσε λαὸν ἀτάσθαλον, ὤλετο δ ̓ αὐτός· 61 τῇ δὲ Ποσειδάων ἐμίγη καὶ ἐγείνατο παῖδα 62 Ναυσίθοον μεγάθυμον, ὃς ἐν Φαίηξιν ἄνασσε· 63 Ναυσίθοος δ ̓ ἔτεκεν Ῥηξήνορά τ ̓ Ἀλκίνοόν τε. 64 τὸν μὲν ἄκουρον ἐόντα βάλ ̓ ἀργυρότοξος Ἀπόλλων 65 νυμφίον ἐν μεγάρῳ, μίαν οἴην παῖδα λιπόντα 66 Ἀρήτην· τὴν δ ̓ Ἀλκίνοος ποιήσατ ̓ ἄκοιτιν, 67 καί μιν ἔτισ ̓, ὡς οὔ τις ἐπὶ χθονὶ τίεται ἄλλη, 68 ὅσσαι νῦν γε γυναῖκες ὑπ ̓ ἀνδράσιν οἶκον ἔχουσιν. 69 ὣς κείνη περὶ κῆρι τετίμηταί τε καὶ ἔστιν 70 ἔκ τε φίλων παίδων ἔκ τ ̓ αὐτοῦ Ἀλκινόοιο 71 καὶ λαῶν, οἵ μίν ῥα θεὸν ὣς εἰσορόωντες 72 δειδέχαται μύθοισιν, ὅτε στείχῃσ ̓ ἀνὰ ἄστυ. 73 οὐ μὲν γάρ τι νόου γε καὶ αὐτὴ δεύεται ἐσθλοῦ· 74 οἷσι τ ̓ ἐὺ φρονέῃσι καὶ ἀνδράσι νείκεα λύει. 75 εἴ κέν τοι κείνη γε φίλα φρονέῃσ ̓ ἐνὶ θυμῷ, 76 ἐλπωρή τοι ἔπειτα φίλους τ ̓ ἰδέειν καὶ ἱκέσθαι 77 οἶκον ἐς ὑψόροφον καὶ σὴν ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν.”
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seanjonesbw
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Post by seanjonesbw » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:23 pm

Although the wild enthusiasm in last week's thread was flattering, perhaps someone else would care to pick something interesting out of this week's passage?
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Post by seanjonesbw » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:02 am

I think this group has probably run its natural course in that case.

I'll continue posting threads for passages I find difficult or interesting from time to time, but this will be the last week in its present form. Huge thanks to all those who have taken part, I've learned an enormous amount over the past few months and people have been extremely generous with their time and knowledge.

θεοὶ δ᾽ ἀρετὴν ὀπάσειαν παντοίην, καὶ μή τι κακὸν μεταδήμιον εἴη.
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Aetos
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Post by Aetos » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:13 am

Sean, thank you very much for organising and running this group! Participating in a reading group is a new experience for me and I have thoroughly enjoyed it. I look forward to your future posts as I'm sure they'll open doors to rooms yet unexplored in the vast castle of classical knowledge and of course, I shall never forget that there is no such thing a long ε !

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seneca2008
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Post by seneca2008 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:08 pm

Sean thanks also. But don't abandon this project so quickly. I have had little time for this recently but will aim to put some time aside this week.

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Paul Derouda
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Post by Paul Derouda » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:23 pm

Thanks Sean. But don't despair so soon. It's not always easy to find something interesting to say (it depends on the passage in question), and I can't always go wildly off-topic on Finnish sauna traditions or whatever (or can I?). And of course, the amount of time each one of us can contribute to the forum varies from one week to another.

Just to kick off:
The importance given to Arete is interesting in the passage, though it seems to the exception that proves the rule that (at least mortal) women don't really have much power in the Homeric world (καὶ ἀνδράσι νείκεα λύει "and she settles disputes even among men").

69 ὣς κείνη περὶ κῆρι τετίμηταί τε καὶ ἔστιν
70 ἔκ τε φίλων παίδων ἔκ τ ̓ αὐτοῦ Ἀλκινόοιο
71 καὶ λαῶν, οἵ μίν ῥα θεὸν ὣς εἰσορόωντες
72 δειδέχαται μύθοισιν, ὅτε στείχῃσ ̓ ἀνὰ ἄστυ.

This ἔστιν is rather incomprehensible to me. I'm sure the commentaries offer different ways around it – but I don't know if this is the sort of thing we want to discuss.

Somewhat more interesting is δειδέχαται μύθοισι - does it just mean "greet her verbally/aloud", or does μύθοισι some more specific meaning?

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Post by donhamiltontx » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:46 pm

About ἔστιν Stanford writes, "With ἔστιν supply τιμήεσσα."

Concerning δειδέχαται , he writes, "Some take it as from δείκνυμι ... = 'indicate, point out.'"

Both comments on page 322 of Homer: Odyssey Books I-XII, 2nd ed, 1959 (copy is a newer impression from 2003).
ἐς Τροίαν πειρώμενοι ἦνθον ᾿Αχαιοί,
καλλίστα παίδων: πείρᾳ θην πάντα τελεῖται.
Theocritus, Idyll 15

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Post by Aetos » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:27 pm

donhamiltontx wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:46 pm
About ἔστιν Stanford writes, "With ἔστιν supply τιμήεσσα
Hainesworth agrees that an adjective must be supplied and suggests τιμητή, τιμήεσσα and supplies a parallel expression from Plato Smp 195b: μετὰ δὲ νέων [ὁ Ἔρως] ἀεὶ σύνεστί τε καὶ ἔστιν [sc. νέος αὐτός].

As for δειδέχαται μύθοισι, he believes that δειδέχαται is an "athematic present, root *δεκ , 'welcome, receive' , with lengthened reduplication". Its sense is of a repeated action, thus it must be a present form rather than perfect. Taking this into account, I don't think it a stretch to read it as "...they greet her with welcoming words,"

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Post by seanjonesbw » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:54 pm

Thank you for your responses and kind words. I didn't intend my post above to sound like I was sadposting - if there is appetite then obviously I'm happy to keep posting these threads.

I'm just aware, as Paul says, that there isn't always something that grabs people's attention and it seems a shame to have fallow weeks. I'll stay the execution for the moment and see if I can think of a way of rejigging the format. Maybe more regular Finnish sauna chat really is the way to go.
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