Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

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seanjonesbw
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Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by seanjonesbw » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:09 pm

Welcome to the Odyssey Reading Group! Anyone is welcome to join in at any time, regardless of their Greek ability. If you’re itching to explore Homer’s epic tale of survival, adventure, love, lust, kinship, betrayal and spooky dead people, hop on in, you’ll be very welcome. People who have some Greek but have never tried reading Homer before are doubly welcome.

Please feel free to ask any question in this thread, no matter how basic you think it is, and we will try to help you with an answer.
More Information About the Group
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Check the introductory thread for a description of how the group works.

We’re working from Geoffrey Steadman’s Odyssey Books 6-8, a freely-available pdf with vocabulary and notes

Resources for deeper study are available in the group dropbox folder

Previous threads for Book 6:
Lines 1-23
24-47
48-70
71-92
93-118
119-140
141-161
162-185
186-210
211-238
239-261
262-294
295-331 [end]
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by seanjonesbw » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:11 pm

1 ὣς ὁ μὲν ἔνθ ̓ ἠρᾶτο πολύτλας δῖος Ὀδυσσεύς, 2 κούρην δὲ προτὶ ἄστυ φέρεν μένος ἡμιόνοιϊν. 3 ἡ δ ̓ ὅτε δὴ οὗ πατρὸς ἀγακλυτὰ δώμαθ ̓ ἵκανε, 4 στῆσεν ἄρ ̓ ἐν προθύροισι, κασίγνητοι δέ μιν ἀμφὶς 5 ἵσταντ ̓ ἀθανάτοις ἐναλίγκιοι, οἵ ῥ ̓ ὑπ ̓ ἀπήνης 6 ἡμιόνους ἔλυον ἐσθῆτά τε ἔσφερον εἴσω. 7 αὐτὴ δ ̓ ἐς θάλαμον ἑὸν ἤϊε· δαῖε δέ οἱ πῦρ 8 γρηῢς Ἀπειραίη, θαλαμηπόλος Εὐρυμέδουσα, 9 τήν ποτ ̓ Ἀπείρηθεν νέες ἤγαγον ἀμφιέλισσαι· 10 Ἀλκινόῳ δ ̓ αὐτὴν γέρας ἔξελον, οὕνεκα πᾶσι 11 Φαιήκεσσιν ἄνασσε, θεοῦ δ ̓ ὣς δῆμος ἄκουεν· 12 ἣ τρέφε Ναυσικάαν λευκώλενον ἐν μεγάροισιν. 13 ἥ οἱ πῦρ ἀνέκαιε καὶ εἴσω δόρπον ἐκόσμει. 14 καὶ τότ ̓ Ὀδυσσεὺς ὦρτο πόλινδ ̓ ἴμεν· ἀμφὶ δ ̓ Ἀθήνη 15 πολλὴν ἠέρα χεῦε φίλα φρονέουσ ̓ Ὀδυσῆϊ, 16 μή τις Φαιήκων μεγαθύμων ἀντιβολήσας 17 κερτομέοι τ ̓ ἐπέεσσι καὶ ἐξερέοιθ ̓ ὅτις εἴη. 18 ἀλλ ̓ ὅτε δὴ ἄρ ̓ ἔμελλε πόλιν δύσεσθαι ἐραννήν, 19 ἔνθα οἱ ἀντεβόλησε θεά, γλαυκῶπις Ἀθήνη, 20 παρθενικῇ ἐϊκυῖα νεήνιδι, κάλπιν ἐχούσῃ. 21 στῆ δὲ πρόσθ ̓ αὐτοῦ, ὁ δ ̓ ἀνείρετο δῖος Ὀδυσσεύς· 22 “ὦ τέκος, οὐκ ἄν μοι δόμον ἀνέρος ἡγήσαιο 23 Ἀλκινόου, ὃς τοῖσδε μετ ̓ ἀνθρώποισι ἀνάσσει; 24 καὶ γὰρ ἐγὼ ξεῖνος ταλαπείριος ἐνθάδ ̓ ἱκάνω 25 τηλόθεν ἐξ ἀπίης γαίης· τῷ οὔ τινα οἶδα 26 ἀνθρώπων, οἳ τήνδε πόλιν καὶ ἔργα νέμονται.”
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by seanjonesbw » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:46 pm

Praise be, we've made it to Book 7!

For the starting-off point this week, I thought it would be interesting to discuss book divisions a little bit. I remember reading somewhere (though I can't remember where) that the book divisions are pretty arbitrary but that there are some patterns, like the sun going down at the end of one book and Dawn arriving at the beginning of the next. I thought it was interesting that Book 7 begins with almost a duplicate of Book 6's opening line (ὣς ὁ μὲν ἔνθα καθεῦδε πολύτλας δῖος Ὀδυσσεὺς) so I gathered together all of the first lines from the Odyssey (box below). I notice that there are a couple of other paired openings (Books 11/12, 19/20) and three books begin with identical verses (Books 2, 8 and 17). αὐτὰρ is the first word of six books.

Given that lots of the formulas in these opening lines are used frequently in the middle of books as well, to what extent is the opening line of the book being marked as distinct?

Is the division into books actually important at all for our reading of the text?
First Lines Books 1-24
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1 ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
2 ἦμος δ᾽ ἠριγένεια φάνη ῥοδοδάκτυλος Ἠώς,
3 Ἠέλιος δ᾽ ἀνόρουσε, λιπὼν περικαλλέα λίμνην,
4 οἱ δ᾽ ἷξον κοίλην Λακεδαίμονα κητώεσσαν,
5 Ἠὼς δ᾽ ἐκ λεχέων παρ᾽ ἀγαυοῦ Τιθωνοῖο
6 ὣς ὁ μὲν ἔνθα καθεῦδε πολύτλας δῖος Ὀδυσσεὺς
7 ὧς ὁ μὲν ἔνθ᾽ ἠρᾶτο πολύτλας δῖος Ὀδυσσεύς
8 ἦμος δ᾽ ἠριγένεια φάνη ῥοδοδάκτυλος Ἠώς,
9 τὸν δ᾽ ἀπαμειβόμενος προσέφη πολύμητις Ὀδυσσεύς:
10 ‘Αἰολίην δ᾽ ἐς νῆσον ἀφικόμεθ᾽: ἔνθα δ᾽ ἔναιεν
11 ‘αὐτὰρ ἐπεί ῥ᾽ ἐπὶ νῆα κατήλθομεν ἠδὲ θάλασσαν,
12 ‘αὐτὰρ ἐπεὶ ποταμοῖο λίπεν ῥόον Ὠκεανοῖο
13 ὣς ἔφαθ᾽, οἱ δ᾽ ἄρα πάντες ἀκὴν ἐγένοντο σιωπῇ,
14 αὐτὰρ ὁ ἐκ λιμένος προσέβη τρηχεῖαν ἀταρπὸν
15 ἡ δ᾽ εἰς εὐρύχορον Λακεδαίμονα Παλλὰς Ἀθήνη
16 τὼ δ᾽ αὖτ᾽ ἐν κλισίῃ Ὀδυσεὺς καὶ δῖος ὑφορβὸς
17 ἦμος δ᾽ ἠριγένεια φάνη ῥοδοδάκτυλος Ἠώς,
18 ἦλθε δ᾽ ἐπὶ πτωχὸς πανδήμιος, ὃς κατὰ ἄστυ
19 αὐτὰρ ὁ ἐν μεγάρῳ ὑπελείπετο δῖος Ὀδυσσεύς,
20 αὐτὰρ ὁ ἐν προδόμῳ εὐνάζετο δῖος Ὀδυσσεύς:
21 τῇ δ᾽ ἄρ᾽ ἐπὶ φρεσὶ θῆκε θεὰ γλαυκῶπις Ἀθήνη,
22 αὐτὰρ ὁ γυμνώθη ῥακέων πολύμητις Ὀδυσσεύς,
23 γρηῢς δ᾽ εἰς ὑπερῷ᾽ ἀνεβήσετο καγχαλόωσα,
24 Ἑρμῆς δὲ ψυχὰς Κυλλήνιος ἐξεκαλεῖτο
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by mwh » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:36 pm

Yes the book divisions are pretty arbitrary. Whoever did them (post-Homeric, but pre-Alexandrian) set out to split each poem into parts that could be labeled alpha through omega. They’re best ignored (except for reference purposes of course).

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by Paul Derouda » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:59 pm

mwh wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:36 pm
(post-Homeric, but pre-Alexandrian)
Now you got my attention! Could you elaborate? Why not Alexandrian? I'm not contesting, just curious.

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by seanjonesbw » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:25 pm

mwh wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:36 pm
Yes the book divisions are pretty arbitrary. Whoever did them (post-Homeric, but pre-Alexandrian) set out to split each poem into parts that could be labeled alpha through omega. They’re best ignored (except for reference purposes of course).
Thank you, Michael. With the 'paired' opening lines that I've mentioned above as well as the preponderance of αὐτὰρ and lines with names in, there seem to be three possible explanations:

1) The post-Homeric editor identified similar verses as being appropriate for a book change (αὐτὰρ makes sense as a point of change).
2) The editor added in verses to mark book openings.
3) Coincidence

Would you say number 1 is the most likely of those three?
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by seanjonesbw » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:27 pm

Can anyone tell me why Allen begins Book 6 with ὣς and Book 7 with ὧς? Whimsy?
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by seneca2008 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:02 pm

My printed Allen has ὣς. Perseus and the Loeb have ὧς.

Probert says ὧς "thus" (after καί or οὐδ') otherwise it's ὣς . She notes that this derives from Apollonius Dyscolus and other grammarians but that modern editors do not always follow this rule.

Strange.

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by seanjonesbw » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:38 pm

seneca2008 wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:02 pm
My printed Allen has ὣς. Perseus and the Loeb have ὧς.
Yes sorry my brain said Perseus and my hands typed Allen.

How odd! So it really is whimsy?
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by jeidsath » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:32 pm

The book divisions seem bad in places, but there are clear moments in the poem where everyone goes to sleep or whatever to create a performance (?) division, and the momentum stops and then is built up again from zero. The α-ω divider's sense for this wasn't all bad, though he misses some and divides oddly in other places.
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by seanjonesbw » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:21 pm

Paul Derouda wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:59 pm
Now you got my attention! Could you elaborate? Why not Alexandrian? I'm not contesting, just curious.
I read this in West's Making of the Odyssey just today (p.43):

"They [the rhapsodes] deemed both poems to be the work of their legendary ancestor Homer. And when in 522 or thereabouts Hipparchus instituted the regular performance of the two epics at the Great Panathenaea, with each of them divided up into twenty-four recitation units (ῥαψωιδίαι), it was as the poems of Homer that they were officially designated"

West doesn't give a source for this in the book but a quick Google reveals his source is... the esteemed Homeric scholar Martin L. West.

His argument in Studies in the Text and Transmission of the Iliad (p.19) seems to be that 24 books allowed both recitations to be evenly spread over the four days of the Great Panathenaea.
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by Paul Derouda » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:49 pm

Thanks Sean, deep inside I knew all that but I'd forgotten - I have actually read both books. I strange how quickly you forget things when you don't think about them for some time. For all I know, West's theory makes sense.

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by mwh » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:33 pm

Alpha - omega is an alphabetical system rather than a numerical one, and alpha-omega has symbolic significance,, advertising Homer's all-comprehensiveness (cf. “I am the alpha and the omega,” or modern use of A-Z). Such symbolism is distinctly unAlexandrian. That’s why I said “pre-Alexandrian” (and the earliest manuscripts 3rd cent. BCE, already use this partitioning, so it can’t be later). It's often said to be Alexandrian in origin, but it must be earlier.

West goes well beyond the evidence in hypothesizing recitations at the Panathenaia spread evenly over four days. And even if he’s right that doesn’t explain why both poems were split into 24 rather than 12, say, or why organic segments such as the Diomedeia were interrupted..

(See the chapter on Homeric Papyri and the Transmission of the Text in Brill’s New Companion to Homer for more, and the chapter on The Physical Media in A Companion to Ancient Epic ed. J.M.Foley.)

As to ὧς:ὣς, ancient grammarians took this seriously, and so did modern scholars who departed from their various prescriptions. But there’s really no knowing.

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by seanjonesbw » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:27 pm

mwh wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:33 pm
See the chapter on Homeric Papyri and the Transmission of the Text in Brill’s New Companion to Homer
Essential reading - I'd recommend this to anyone who follows these threads and hasn't read it.
mwh wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:33 pm
As to ὧς:ὣς, ancient grammarians took this seriously, and so did modern scholars who departed from their various prescriptions. But there’s really no knowing.
Thank you for this. Are you saying that you think Murray (or whoever edited the text of the Loeb if he was just the translator) was making a deliberate distinction between 6.1 (ὣς) and 7.1 (ὧς) or is your point here more general?
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by mwh » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:01 pm

I don’t know what the Loeb editor was doing. I was thinking more of those 19th-cent. scholars (Wackernagel among others) who investigated the matter. Monro’s praefatio to the OCT Iliad is pretty good. And if West includes this in the orthographica section of his Iliad, he’ll be the one to follow. All this is in Latin of course.

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

Post by jeidsath » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:12 pm

Here's Chandler 934. I think that I understand it all, but it was enough to make me not care anymore.
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