Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

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seneca2008
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Post by seneca2008 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:15 pm

seanjonesbw wrote:Yes point taken about the reader's perspective. I suppose in a roundabout way I was asking whether there might have been an Athena-specific altar or one of those carved shrines that Pausanias seems to come across everywhere he visits (admittedly in a different millennium).
This is a bit like what song the siren sang? Who knows. An altar would only be there if sacrifices of some kind would have been made. Perhaps its a romantic view but burnt offerings would rather destroy the peace of the grove. We need to mount an expedition to excavate the site and find cult objects. O hang on Scheria is "unreal" in a fictional account...

We have the text and your imagination. I think that's enough!

Interestingly enough in line 6.9-10 we learn that Nausithous had

ἀμφὶ δὲ τεῖχος ἔλασσε πόλει, καὶ ἐδείματο οἴκους,
καὶ νηοὺς ποίησε θεῶν, καὶ ἐδάσσατ ̓ ἀρούρας

Hainsworth describes the "νηοὺς" as "an inadvertent anachronism, since monumental buildings are evidently intended. Homeric worship (sic) is normally performed at altars in the open air, eg 3.5 ff."

Garvie says "the building of temples is significant; for temples rarely appear in Homer. That they belong to a recent stage in the epic tradition is consistent with the archaeological evidence. " Perhaps we should be excavating on Corfu as he also says "Corcyra [is] traditionally identified with Scheria". (see also Thuc. 1.25.4)

Interesting question Sean but I am not sure we can answer it.
Last edited by seneca2008 on Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Aetos
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Post by Aetos » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:16 pm

seneca2008 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:03 pm
Secondly, I have noticed people talking about "fairy stories" in relation to Homer. I wondered if anyone has some references for this.
Page, D.L. 1955. The Homeric "Odyssey". Oxford
1973. Folktales in Homer's "Odyssey".Cambridge, Mass.
Powell, B. 1977 Composition by Theme in the "Odyssey". Meisenheim
Woodhouse, W.J. 1930 The Composition of Homer's "Odyssey". Oxford
Hölscher, U. 1978. "The Transformation from Folk-tale to Epic."In Fenik 1978, pp. 51-67
Fenik, B. 1978. Homer: Tradition and Invention (ed.). Leiden.
Mondi, M. 1983. "The Homeric Cyclopes:Folktale, Tradition, and Theme" TAPA113:17-38.
These are all from Mark W. Edwards's suggestions for further reading in his "Homer: Poet of the Iliad"

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Post by seanjonesbw » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:26 am

seneca2008 wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:15 pm
We have the text and your imagination. I think that's enough!
This is an interesting point. I don't think I'll ever be able to 'unsee' that Mycenaean boar's tusk helmet when I'm reading the Iliad (10.260ff) but then I don't feel my vision of Ithaca is diminished by never having visited a Greek island. I suppose we collect bits and pieces of visual thread in our mind that we use to weave an Odyssey or Iliad that satisfies us.
ἁλὶ γὰρ δέδμητο φίλον κῆρ 🌊

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Post by seneca2008 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:21 pm

Thanks Aetos for giving those references which I will look through. I have started reading West's making of the Odyssey and he refers to pre-existing traditions and folk-tale narratives. I think its probably best to drop the "Fairy story" idea unless it can be shown in specific passages to be illuminating.

Sean you must visit a Greek island (or many!). I had several happy Summers "island hopping". I am sure we all have our own vision of Ithaca and indeed we cannot but use our experience to "weave" ( a felicitous verb given the context ) our own odyssey.

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Post by Aetos » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:24 pm

Here's one of my favourite recreations of the Odyssey, very loosely based:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190590/
and of course its "hit song":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHamgwlQ1yo

seanjonesbw
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Post by seanjonesbw » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:30 pm

Aetos wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:24 pm
Here's one of my favourite recreations of the Odyssey, very loosely based:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190590/
and of course its "hit song":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHamgwlQ1yo
This is really off topic now, but surely the greatest film soundtrack of all time.
ἁλὶ γὰρ δέδμητο φίλον κῆρ 🌊

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Post by mwh » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:33 pm

Do a Textkit search for “O Brother Where Art Thou” and you’ll find a fun thread.
(Sorry, I’ve forgotten how to do thread links.)

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Post by Aetos » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:31 pm


seanjonesbw
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Post by seanjonesbw » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:49 pm

mwh wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:33 pm
Do a Textkit search for “O Brother Where Art Thou” and you’ll find a fun thread.
(Sorry, I’ve forgotten how to do thread links.)
Ha! Thanks for the tip off, and thank you to Aetos for the link. Particularly appropriate before we leave book 6, it seems to me - maybe Nausicaa needs her own version:

ἐς ποταμὸν κατέβην δὴ εἵματα μοι πλυνέουσα (forgive the inevitable errors)
ἁλὶ γὰρ δέδμητο φίλον κῆρ 🌊

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