Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 1-23

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seanjonesbw
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 1-23

Post by seanjonesbw » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:21 pm

In case anybody else is using Steadman for vocabulary-building, I'm making Quizlet flashcards for each page as I go along with high-frequency vocabulary occurring 8 or more times in Books 6-8 (on Steadman's recommendation). The Greek side of the flashcard is the vocabulary in-context, in square brackets with a couple of words of the Odyssey either side. The reverse side is the dictionary form and the translations provided by Steadman.

The vocab for lines 1-20 is here
And for lines 21-40 here
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seneca2008
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 1-23

Post by seneca2008 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:22 pm

seneca2008 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:27 pm
I don’t agree with this.
Could you elaborate slightly?
I am sorry but sometimes I become as Laconic as my avatar.

I think that as interesting as this is, it this type of discussion of a more general nature would be best pursued in a separate thread. I have no training in linguistics and can't really comment further than my post above.

Nevertheless, I thought the appeal to English syntax was unhelpful because of the problems posed by the examples given. They seem to me artificial and if you want to propose that "English" or some proto- English has something like the phenomenon loosely described as tmesis then you need more (and different) evidence. I thought they were more likely to confuse than elucidate. You should remember that not all the board members are native English speakers.

Specifically in the extract I quoted I wasn't sure what you meant by "strength" nor what " so πρὸς is kind of doing its own thing" signified. There is no need to explain I will happily remain in ignorance and I am sure it meant something to you to others.

So this has added another superfluous post to a thread which has deviated rather from the specifics of the text to a more general discussion which belongs in my view elsewhere.

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seneca2008
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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 1-23

Post by seneca2008 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:23 pm

n case anybody else is using Steadman for vocabulary-building, I'm making Quizlet flashcards for each page as I go along with high-frequency vocabulary occurring 8 or more times in Books 6-8 (on Steadman's recommendation). The Greek side of the flashcard is the vocabulary in-context, in square brackets with a couple of words of the Odyssey either side. The reverse side is the dictionary form and the translations provided by Steadman.
This seems very helpful. Thank you.

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Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 1-23

Post by seanjonesbw » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:23 pm

seneca2008 wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:22 pm
You should remember that not all the board members are native English speakers.
Fair point. Re your point about deviation I think you're right - next week I think I might start a separate thread for specific translation questions to run alongside more general discussion (about the narrative etc.) to stop there being crossover. Any suggestions welcome on that front.

To come back to the text, then:

We get an introduction to the πόλις which Alkinoos has built in Scheria in this week's passage. We hear that he has built temples to the gods (νηοὺς... θεῶν), houses (ἐδείματο οἴκους), divided up the arable land (ἀρούρας). But I think the most interesting thing that the Phaeacians have built is the wall which has been 'driven' around the city (ἀμφὶ δὲ τεῖχος ἔλασσε πόλει).

Later (7.45), we learn that it's a really big wall (τείχεα μακρὰ, or perhaps long in contrast with the τείχεος ὑψηλοῖο of the Iliad) and that is a 'wonder to behold' (θαῦμα ἰδέσθαι). I read this and got the idea that it was a massive stone wall like in Troy, but actually it's a wooden palisade (σκολόπεσσιν ἀρηρότα, some translations have this as 'topped with palisades' but I don't really get that sense here) - the only other time Homer uses σκόλοψ is the wall that the Greeks build in the Iliad (Book 7).

A palisade is a spiky, defensive wall, but the Scherians live in seclusion on an island and don't get many visitors.

I get the impression that the narrative purpose of this wall is to make the Phaeacians even more forbidding to Odysseus, and give the sense that once he's passed through the gates, getting out again will be difficult if things go wrong (in fact, this whole section feels quite King Kong). But maybe the Phaeacians actually do feel that they need a wall to protect them on their island in the middle of nowhere - if so, from whom?
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