Mimnermus Fr. 10

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jeidsath
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Mimnermus Fr. 10

Post by jeidsath » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:03 pm

Ἠέλιος μὲν γὰρ ἔλαχεν πόνον ἤματα πάντα, οὐδέ ποτ’ ἄμπαυσις γίνεται οὐδεμία ἵπποισίν τε καὶ αὐτῶι, ἐπεὶ ῥοδοδάκτυλος Ἠὼς Ὠκεανὸν προλιποῦσ’ οὐρανὸν εἰσαναβῆι. τὸν μὲν γὰρ διὰ κῦμα φέρει πολυήρατος εὐνή, @1 (5) κοιίλη, Ἡφαίστου χερσὶν ἐληλαμένη, χρυσοῦ τιμήεντος, ὑπόπτερος, ἄκρον ἐφ’ ὕδωρ εὕδονθ’ ἁρπαλέως χώρου ἀφ’ Ἑσπερίδων γαῖαν ἐς Αἰθιόπων, ἵνα δὴ θοὸν ἅρμα καὶ ἵπποι ἑστᾶσ’, ὄφρ’ Ἠὼς ἠριγένεια μόληι· (10) ἔνθ’ ἐπεβήσεθ᾽ ἑῶν ὀχέων Ὑπερίονος υἱός.
For Sun has drawn the lot of labor for all days, and never even one rest comes about for his horses and for him after rosy-fingered Dawn has left Ocean and climbed Sky. For he is carried through waves in his much-loved bed, a container run through with gold by Hephaestus' hands, winged-beneath [oared], high atop water sleeping swiftly far from the Hesperides land into Ethiopian, in order that his fast chariot and horses will be standing when Dawn the morning-child goes forth. Then Hyperion's son mounts his own chariot.

West follows the codex in two places that Campbell does not. Line 6 ποικίλη instead of κοιίλη, making it a many-colored bed. And ἔνθ’ ἐπέβη ἑτέρων ὀχέων in line 11. "Then he mounts another chariot." Line 11 seems much better in West's (codd.) edition. I thought Campbell (em. Schneidewin) was weird here. I suppose that the motivation is getting rid of that hiatus?
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Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

Post by Hylander » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:03 pm

οὐδέ ποτ’ -- "and not ever", not "not even"

ἵνα in l. 9 is "where". Note that ἑστᾶσ’ is not subjunctive, as it would be in a purpose clause.

τὸν μὲν γὰρ διὰ κῦμα φέρει πολυήρατος εὐνή -- you're aware, I assume, that this is active, not passive: the bed carries him, not he is carried.

κοιίλη -- just "hollow"

The mss. of Athenaeus, from which this is quotation comes, have κοιλη. The hiatus is acceptable; what isn't acceptable is the absence of correption -- shortening of -η. κοιίλη is a conjecture of Meineke; ποικιλη of Kaibel; and κοιλη υφ᾽ of Schneidwin. West, in Iambi et Elegi Graeci ante Alexandrum Cantati, vol. ii, p. 89, prints ποικίλη. The passage from Athenaeus introducing this fragment seems to suggest that Mimnermus described the bed as κοιλη. See Campbell's introductory note to this fragment.

Ἡφαίστου χερσὶν ἐληλαμένη, χρυσοῦ τιμήεντος -- "forged [not 'run through' by the hands of Hephaistos of precious gold"

ὑπόπτερος -- just "wingèd"

εὕδονθ’ ἁρπαλέως -- "sleeping soundly", "sound asleep" or else ἁρπαλέως modifies φέρει, "swiftly from the territory of the Hesperides to the land of the Aethiopians"

ἄκρον ἐφ’ ὕδωρ -- "on the surface" or "on top of" the water.

In line 11, Schneidewin's conjecture (according to West, op. cit.) was ιερων. Bergk conjectured σφετερων. I think the conjectures were prompted by the reference in the received text to the Sun's "other chariot", which seems to suggest that the bed is a chariot.

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Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

Post by jeidsath » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:37 pm

ἵνα in l. 9 is "where". Note that ἑστᾶσ’ is not subjunctive, as it would be in a purpose clause.
Maybe this doesn't apply to Mimnermus, but I've been reading a lot of Homer lately, and I feel like admitting defeat at telling subjectives from the indicative by anything except context. The forms seem haphazard. It's much easier in Attic.
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Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

Post by Hylander » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:54 pm

Mimnermus's language (like that of the other archaic elegists) is essentially the artificial language of the Homeric poems.

But ἑστᾶσ’ (long ᾶ) is as Attic as it is epic. Subjunctive 2d perfect forms have -η-/-ω-.

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Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

Post by Paul Derouda » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:07 pm

εὕδονθ’ ἁρπαλέως "sleeping greedily", i.e. eagerly. Shining all day is a lot of work, so rest is welcome afterwards.

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Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

Post by Paul Derouda » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:14 pm

What I find interesting here are the Aithiopians in the east. Africa was in the south, and in general Aithiopians (with certitude at least from Herodotus onwards) referers to Black Africans. Does this refer to Indians?

In the Odyssey, Aithiopians are divided in two, some in the east and some in the west. In his Making of the Odyssey, West speculates that this might have been an innovation of the Odyssey poet to remove geographical problems in Odysseus' travels.

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Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

Post by jeidsath » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:16 pm

Campbell took ἁρπαλέως as "swiftly" with φέρει. (Which I was ineptly trying to express.) I don't think that's too strange, as "χώρου ἀφ’ Ἑσπερίδων γαῖαν ἐς Αἰθιόπων" right after functions similarly to modify φέρει.

I like the image of εὕδονθ’ ἁρπαλέως thought that both of you suggest. He's getting sleep while he can.
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Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

Post by Hylander » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:46 pm

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorless ... _furiously

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Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

Post by jeidsath » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:13 pm

Instantly, on seeing that phrase, my mind produced the image of a faded oil painting, depicting the dreams of a sleeping man as animal-like creatures. These various nominally green animals, frogs, snakes, etc., with an original color now completely faded, are depicted as sleepwalkers locked in furious combat with each other. It's hard to think of a more descriptive phrase for such an image.
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Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

Post by Paul Derouda » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:15 pm

We've actually discussed the semantics of the word ἁρπαλέος in our mail group, in the context of Mimnermus 1:

τίς δὲ βίος, τί δὲ τερπνὸν ἄτερ χρυσῆς Ἀφροδίτης;
τεθναίην, ὅτε μοι μηκέτι ταῦτα μέλοι,
κρυπταδίη φιλότης καὶ μείλιχα δῶρα καὶ εὐνή,
οἷ' ἥβης ἄνθεα γίγνεται ἁρπαλέα
ἀνδράσιν ἠδὲ γυναιξίν· ἐπεὶ δ' ὀδυνηρὸν ἐπέλθῃ 5
γῆρας, ὅ τ' αἰσχρὸν ὁμῶς καὶ κακὸν ἄνδρα τιθεῖ,
αἰεί μιν φρένας ἀμφὶ κακαὶ τείρουσι μέριμναι,
οὐδ' αὐγὰς προσορῶν τέρπεται ἠελίου,
ἀλλ' ἐχθρὸς μὲν παισίν, ἀτίμαστος δὲ γυναιξίν·
οὕτως ἀργαλέον γῆρας ἔθηκε θεός.

ἄνθεα ἁρπαλέα - here not active "greedy flowers" but passive "flowers to be greedily seized" (similarly Od. 8.164). It seems to me that word is always clearly connected to ἁρπάζω (not "charming", pace LSJ), and semantically rather transparent (unlike "colorless green ideas sleep furiously").

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Re: Mimnermus Fr. 10

Post by mwh » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:49 pm

What a busy thread! Just one note. Perhaps Paul is being jocular when he says “Shining all day is a lot of work” but it’s worth pointing out that shining is no work at all for Helios. It’s driving a four-horse chariot across the sky from dawn to dusk that’s a lot of work. (I agree with him over αρπαλεως, and αρπαλεα in the other fr.)

The textual problems are tricky. On balance I think κοιιλη (trisyll.) is probably right in 6 (Athenaeus himself clearly read either that or κοιλη). ποικιλη is perfectly apt for Heph’s intricate metalwork (not “many-colored”, Joel: it’s gold) but we need the idea of a bowl. In 11 I cannot swallow ετερων, nor σφετερων.

A problem I have with this fragment is the γαρ in line 5. Unlike the μεν, it can’t just be repeating the γαρ of line 1. The sense can hardly be “Helios gets no rest during the day, for at night he sleeps.” Perhaps the continuation after the end of the fragment would give it some sense, but how? Did a δε clause follow to answer the μεν and carry the weight for the γαρ to refer to? Is the whole fragment a mythological comparison? It’s from the Nanno. Could the thrust be e.g. “(Eros torments me incessantly), for Helios, though he toils unremittingly by day, does get to sleep overnight, (but I spend even my nights sleepless, aflame with longing for Nanno.)”?? Prototypical love elegy. Arguably anachronistic, but that’s how the Hellenistic poets viewed the Nanno (a model for Ovid’s Corinna?). Just musing.

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