Please HELP! Ilias, Odyssea et al.

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Carolus Raeticus
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Please HELP! Ilias, Odyssea et al.

Post by Carolus Raeticus » Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:41 pm

Valete omnes!

PLEASE HELP! To make myself more clear:

P L E A S E HELP!!!

I know, I know, I already posted most of these questions in another thread, but I didn't get any answer. However, I really need your assistance. I am creating public domain versions of Latin translations of "Homer"'s works for Project Gutenberg. I have transcribed and proofread the Latin text of:

- Ilias
- Odyssea
- Ranarum et Murium Pugna
- Hymni vel Exordia
- Epigrammata

The reason why I am posting this here is because the Latin text follows the Greek text very closely, which ought to make it easier for you to decide whether my guess for the right Latin word is correct or not.

I can assure you that this sounds worse than it is. Links to the Greek/Latin-text should make answering these questions a lot faster.

If you are lending a hand, you will help in making this transcription the best possible (or at least the best I was able to do).

Now for the questions:

PART A: "ILIAS":
================

I noticed that I missed two open questions:

Book XXIV, Lines 41 and 44:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Sed pernicioso Achilli, dii, vultis favere,
cui nec mens est aequa, neque animus
flexibilis in pectoribus: sed tanquam leo, ferocia animo-fov...,
qui quum magnisque viribus et superbo animo
obsecutus, vadit ad pecudes hominum, ut dapes capiat:
sic Achilles misericordiam quidem perdidit, neque ei pud...
est, qui viros valde laedit omissus, ac juvat servatus."

→ Line 41: It should be "animo-fovens", shouldn't it?
→ Line 44: It should be "pudor", shouldn't it?


PART B: "ODYSSEA"
=================

Q-1: Book IV, Line 528:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Ivit autem nuntiaturus ad ædes pastori virorum."

→ Shouldn't this be "pastoris virorum" instead? What does "pastor?" depend on, "aedes" (then genitive) or "nuntiaturus" (then dative)?

Q-2: Book V, Line 158:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"die vero in petris et litoribus sedens,
[lacrimis et gemitibus et doloribus animum scindens,]
pontum in fructuosum prospiciebat, lacrimas stillans."

→ Shouldn't this be "in infructuosum" instead?

Q-3: Book V, Line 305:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Jupiter, turbavitque mare; ingruunt vero procellæ
omnigenorum ventorum. Nunc mihi certum est grave ???tium.
Ter-beati Danai et quater, qui tunc perierunt
Troja in lata, Atridis gratificantes."

→ There is something missing before "tium." What could the whole word be? I suspect "exitium".

Q-4: Book V, Line 384:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Ac Minerva, filia Jovis, aliud excogitavit:
nempe ceterorum ventorum obstruxit vias
et quiescere jussit, et consopitos-esse omnes
incitavit autem velocem Boream, fluctusque præfregit,
donec ille Phæacibus remigii-studiosis misceretur,
generosus Ulysses, mortem et fatum elapsus."

→ Is there something missing after "consopitos-esse omnes"?

Q-5: Book VI, 68:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Neuquaquam tibi mulos invideo, filia, nec quicquam aliud."

→ Normally I would peg this as a typo, but there being "necquaquam" I am not entirely sure whether "neuquaquam" isn't a variant as well. What do you think?

Q-6: Book VII, Line 87:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Ærei etenim parietes ducti-erant hinc et illinc,
ad intimum-secessum a limine: circum autem corona ex cyano:
aure e vero fores firmam domum intus claudebant:"

→ This should be "aureæ", shouldn't it?

Q-7: Book VIII, Line 540:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Ex quo cœnavimusque, et exorsus-est divinus cantor,
ex hoc nunquam cessavit a-luctuoso flectu
hospes; valde certe ipsi dolor mentem circumdedit."

→ Shouldn't this be "fletu" instead?

Q-8: Book IX, Line 276:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Non enim Cyclopes Jovem ægidem-tenentem curant,
nec deos beatos: quoniam multos potentiores sumus."

→ Shouldn't this be "multo" (adv.) instead?

Q-9: Book X, Line 178:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Sic dixit; illi vero ocyus meis verbis paruerunt:"

→ Shouldn't this be "dixi" instead?

Q-10: Book XI, Line 524:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Ac quum in equum conscendimus, quem fabricavit Epeus
Argivorum principes, mihi autem omnia commissa-erant:"

→ Shouldn't this be "princeps" instead?

Q-11: Book XI, Line 537:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Sed quando Priami urbem depopulati-sumus excelsam,
portionem et munus eximium habens, navem conscendebat
incolumis, neque eminus-ictus acuto ære,
nec cominus vulneratus; ut sæpe
fit in bello; promiscue vero fuerit Mars."

→ Shouldn't this be "furit" instead?

Q-12: Book XII, Line 73:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Duo vero sunt scopuli: hic quidem cœlum latum attingi
acuto vertice, nubes autem ipsum circumdat
obscura: quod quidem nunquam cessat, neque unquam serenitas
illius tenet verticem, neque in æstate, neque in autumno:"

→ Shouldn't this be "attingit"?

Q-13: Book XII, Lines 280-281:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Crudelis es, Ulysse; abundat tibi robur, nec quicquam membris
defatigaris; profecto utique tibi omnia ferrea su??? [???probably "sunt"???]
qui quidem socios, labore defatigatos, atque etiam somn??? [???part illegible, perhaps "somn*mitos"???] mitos,
non sinis terram conscendere:

→ The first incomplete bit (after "ferrea") is probably "sunt", about the second one I have no idea. What do you think?

Q-14: Book XIII, Line 258:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Audiebam de-Ithaca quidem etiam in Creta lata,
longe trans pontum; nunc autem huc veni et ipse
bonis cum hisce; relictis vero adhuc apud-filios tant??
fugi, quoniam dilectum filium interfeci Idomenei,
Orsilochum pedibus velocem, qui in Creta lata
viros ingeniosos vincebat velocibus pedibus:"

→ Am I correct in assuming that this should read "tantis"?

Q-15: Book XIX, Line 566:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Duæ etenim portæ debilium sunt somniorum:
nam altera quidem cornibus facta est; altera autem ebore:
horum quæ quidem venerint per sectum ebur,
hæc decipiunt, verba irrita ferentia;
quæ vero per polita cornua iverint foras,
hæc vera perficiunt, hominum quando aliquis viderit."

→ Shouldn't this be "fores"?

Q-16: Book XX, Line 234:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"sciat nunc Jupiter primum deorum, hospitalisque mensa,
focusque Ulyssis eximii, ad-quem veni,
certe, te hic præsente, veniet domum Ulysses;
tuisque oculis videbis, si volueris,
interfeci procos, qui hic dominantur."

→ Shouldn't this be "interfici"?


PART C: HYMNI & EPIGRAMMATA
===========================

Q-1: Ranarum et Murium Pugna, Line 258:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Ejus vero feriit galeam e imiam ex-olla-quadrata
divinus Origanion (origani amator), imitans ipsum Martem,
qui solus inter ranas fortiter-pugnabat in turba;"

→ Shouldn't this be "eximiam"?

Q-2: Hymnus III ("In Venerem"), Line 11:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"verum ei bellaque placuerunt et opus Martis,
præliaque, pugnæque, et præclara opera instuere.
Prima fabros viros terrestres docuit
facere plaustra, et currus varios ære."

→ Shouldn't this be "instituere"?

Q-3: Hymnus III ("In Venerem"), Line 188:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Sed te per Jovem supplex-oro ægida-tenentem,
ne me viventem inanem inter homines sinas
habitare, sed miserere: quoniam haud longævus vir
fit, qui cum-deabus concumbit immortalibus."

→ Shouldn't this be "ægidem-tenentem"?

Q-4: Hymnus IV ("In Cererem"), Line 304:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"[...] At flava Ceres
ibi considens, cœlicolis seorum ab-omnibus,
permansit, desiderio tabescens alte-cinctæ filiæ.

→ Shouldn't this be "seorsum"?

Thank you,

Carolus Raeticus
Sperate miseri, cavete felices.

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bedwere
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Re: Please HELP! Ilias, Odyssea et al.

Post by bedwere » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:49 am

Carolus Raeticus wrote:Valete omnes!

Book XXIV, Lines 41 and 44:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Sed pernicioso Achilli, dii, vultis favere,
cui nec mens est aequa, neque animus
flexibilis in pectoribus: sed tanquam leo, ferocia animo-fov...,
qui quum magnisque viribus et superbo animo
obsecutus, vadit ad pecudes hominum, ut dapes capiat:
sic Achilles misericordiam quidem perdidit, neque ei pud...
est, qui viros valde laedit omissus, ac juvat servatus."

→ Line 41: It should be "animo-fovens", shouldn't it?
→ Line 44: It should be "pudor", shouldn't it?
https://books.google.com/books?id=3vCMM ... &q&f=false
Line 41: Animo-fovet
Line 44: Yes.
Carolus Raeticus wrote:PART B: "ODYSSEA"
=================

Q-1: Book IV, Line 528:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Ivit autem nuntiaturus ad ædes pastori virorum."

→ Shouldn't this be "pastoris virorum" instead? What does "pastor?" depend on, "aedes" (then genitive) or "nuntiaturus" (then dative)?
No, it's dative like in the Greek.
Q-2: Book V, Line 158:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"die vero in petris et litoribus sedens,
[lacrimis et gemitibus et doloribus animum scindens,]
pontum in fructuosum prospiciebat, lacrimas stillans."

→ Shouldn't this be "in infructuosum" instead?
Yes on this one.
Q-3: Book V, Line 305:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Jupiter, turbavitque mare; ingruunt vero procellæ
omnigenorum ventorum. Nunc mihi certum est grave ???tium.
Ter-beati Danai et quater, qui tunc perierunt
Troja in lata, Atridis gratificantes."

→ There is something missing before "tium." What could the whole word be? I suspect "exitium".
Yes.
Q-4: Book V, Line 384:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Ac Minerva, filia Jovis, aliud excogitavit:
nempe ceterorum ventorum obstruxit vias
et quiescere jussit, et consopitos-esse omnes
incitavit autem velocem Boream, fluctusque præfregit,
donec ille Phæacibus remigii-studiosis misceretur,
generosus Ulysses, mortem et fatum elapsus."

→ Is there something missing after "consopitos-esse omnes"?
No.
Q-5: Book VI, 68:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Neuquaquam tibi mulos invideo, filia, nec quicquam aliud."

→ Normally I would peg this as a typo, but there being "necquaquam" I am not entirely sure whether "neuquaquam" isn't a variant as well. What do you think?
Typo for nequaquam

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Re: Please HELP! Ilias, Odyssea et al.

Post by bedwere » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:40 pm

Q-6: Book VII, Line 87:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Ærei etenim parietes ducti-erant hinc et illinc,
ad intimum-secessum a limine: circum autem corona ex cyano:
aure e vero fores firmam domum intus claudebant:"

→ This should be "aureæ", shouldn't it?
Yes
Q-7: Book VIII, Line 540:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Ex quo cœnavimusque, et exorsus-est divinus cantor,
ex hoc nunquam cessavit a-luctuoso flectu
hospes; valde certe ipsi dolor mentem circumdedit."

→ Shouldn't this be "fletu" instead?
Yes
Q-8: Book IX, Line 276:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Non enim Cyclopes Jovem ægidem-tenentem curant,
nec deos beatos: quoniam multos potentiores sumus."

→ Shouldn't this be "multo" (adv.) instead?
Yes
Q-10: Book XI, Line 524:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Ac quum in equum conscendimus, quem fabricavit Epeus
Argivorum principes, mihi autem omnia commissa-erant:"

→ Shouldn't this be "princeps" instead?
No, principes is correct translation for ἄριστοι
Q-11: Book XI, Line 537:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Sed quando Priami urbem depopulati-sumus excelsam,
portionem et munus eximium habens, navem conscendebat
incolumis, neque eminus-ictus acuto ære,
nec cominus vulneratus; ut sæpe
fit in bello; promiscue vero fuerit Mars."

→ Shouldn't this be "furit" instead?
Yes
Q-12: Book XII, Line 73:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Duo vero sunt scopuli: hic quidem cœlum latum attingi
acuto vertice, nubes autem ipsum circumdat
obscura: quod quidem nunquam cessat, neque unquam serenitas
illius tenet verticem, neque in æstate, neque in autumno:"

→ Shouldn't this be "attingit"?
Yes. https://books.google.com/books?id=3vCMM ... &q&f=false
Q-13: Book XII, Lines 280-281:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Crudelis es, Ulysse; abundat tibi robur, nec quicquam membris
defatigaris; profecto utique tibi omnia ferrea su??? [???probably "sunt"???]
qui quidem socios, labore defatigatos, atque etiam somn??? [???part illegible, perhaps "somn*mitos"???] mitos,
non sinis terram conscendere:

→ The first incomplete bit (after "ferrea") is probably "sunt", about the second one I have no idea. What do you think?
sunt ;
somno do-
https://books.google.com/books?id=3vCMM ... &q&f=false

mwh
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Re: Please HELP! Ilias, Odyssea et al.

Post by mwh » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:23 pm

Supplementing bedwere:

B (Od.)
Q.10. Comma lost after Epeus?

Q.13. domitos not in the Greek, hence the italics, wh shd be retained?

Spelling bedwere:

Q.14. Yes

15. No (I think, not sure, check other passages)

16.Yes

C.
1 Yes

2 Or instruere? Hard to tell without comparing other places.

3 No, Gk.accusative

4 Yes

Carolus Raeticus
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Re: Please HELP! Ilias, Odyssea et al.

Post by Carolus Raeticus » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:57 pm

Salve bedwere and mwh!

Many thanks for your help...and for the better scan. There is only one question remaining.

PART B: "ODYSSEA"
=================

Q-9: Book X, Line 178:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Sic dixit; illi vero ocyus meis verbis paruerunt:"

→ Shouldn't this be "dixi" instead?

Thank you,

Carolus Raeticus
Sperate miseri, cavete felices.

User avatar
bedwere
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Re: Please HELP! Ilias, Odyssea et al.

Post by bedwere » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:56 pm

Carolus Raeticus wrote:Salve bedwere and mwh!

Many thanks for your help...and for the better scan. There is only one question remaining.

PART B: "ODYSSEA"
=================

Q-9: Book X, Line 178:
https://books.google.at/books?id=nLdBAA ... &q&f=false

"Sic dixit; illi vero ocyus meis verbis paruerunt:"

→ Shouldn't this be "dixi" instead?

Thank you,

Carolus Raeticus
Yes.

Carolus Raeticus
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Posts: 550
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:46 am
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Re: Please HELP! Ilias, Odyssea et al.

Post by Carolus Raeticus » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:35 pm

Thank you, bedwere!

Now I can start to create the final versions of the input files I use to generate the actual files for Project Gutenberg.

Vale,

Carolus Raeticus
Sperate miseri, cavete felices.

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