Iliad B:445

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Bert
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Iliad B:445

Post by Bert » Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:10 am

445-οἱ δ' ἀμφ' Ἀτ?εΐωνα διοτ?εφέες βασιλῆες
The commentaries say that this means; But the son of Atreus and those around him.....
I am willing to believe it but I don't understand it.
To me it seems to read; But those around the son of Atreus....
Can someone please explain this construction to me?
Thank you.

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perispomenon
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Post by perispomenon » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:35 am

Hi Bert,

I translated it exactly as you did. Which commentary states it should be 'But the son of Atreus and those around him'?

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Post by Bert » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:54 pm

perispomenon wrote:Hi Bert,

I translated it exactly as you did. Which commentary states it should be 'But the son of Atreus and those around him'?
M.M. Willcock and James R. Boise.
Boise does ask what the force of this construction is, but the book must be meant for classroom use because it does not give an answer.

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Paul
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Post by Paul » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:01 am

Hi Bert,

The commentators are trying to get across that the preposition here means to include Agamemnon, e.g., "but those Zeus-nourished kings around (and including) Agamemnon."

See Cunliffe's discussion of ἀμφί

Cordially,

Paul

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Post by Bert » Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:10 am

Thanks Paul.
I should not assume easily that I know what a word means but should read the lexicon entry.
It seems seems strange that one preposition can mean something like that.
Like I told one of the Pharr-c-ers; Prepositions are both fascinating and frustrating.

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Post by Bert » Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:57 pm



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Beatus Pistor
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Post by Beatus Pistor » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:56 am

Trying reading it in context, i.e. try to understand this sentence/phrase in the text level, not in the sentence level. Old lexicons and Grammars usually tell you how to translate, rather than explain the Greek and the former is usually the result of their subjective understanding of the sentence, which is usually according to sentence syntax, instead of text syntax (which is the more acceptable in modern linguistics).
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