Homer - Odyssey - Book II

Are you reading Homeric Greek? Whether you are a total beginner or an advanced Homerist, here you can meet kindred spirits. Besides Homer, use this board for all things early Greek poetry.
Post Reply
User avatar
Adelheid
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 424
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:58 pm
Location: Mijdrecht
Contact:

Homer - Odyssey - Book II

Post by Adelheid » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:10 pm

I just started Book II again. And almost immediately stumble on the use of the aorist, where I would expect a present tense:

line 25: 
κέκλυτε δὴ νῦν μευ, Ἰθακήσιοι, ὅττι κεν εἴπω·

What does the use of the aorist convey here, in this direct speech? The speaker is not referring to something he already said, he's just starting to talk, so it can't be the 'constative' use Rijksbaron talks about in his 'The syntax and semantics of the Greek verb' (8.3.1).

Can anyone enlighten me?
Regards,
Adelheid
http://www.perispomenon.nl

annis
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 3399
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Contact:

Re: Homer - Odyssey - Book II

Post by annis » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:06 pm

Well, εἴπω is subjunctive here, so it doesn't really have a temporal reference, listen to... whatever I say.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

User avatar
Adelheid
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 424
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:58 pm
Location: Mijdrecht
Contact:

Re: Homer - Odyssey - Book II

Post by Adelheid » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:46 pm

I may have to let go of my stubborn conviction that aorist = temporal then.
Regards,
Adelheid
http://www.perispomenon.nl

Markos
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 2966
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:07 pm
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: Homer - Odyssey - Book II

Post by Markos » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:43 pm

line 25: 
κέκλυτε δὴ νῦν μευ, Ἰθακήσιοι, ὅττι κεν εἴπω·

What does the use of the aorist convey here, in this direct speech?
ἐν τῇ ὑποτακτικῇ ὁ μὲν ἀόριστός ἐστιν ὁ ἄσημος χρὀνος. ὁ δ’ ἐνεστώς ἔχει χρείαν τῆς ἐξηγήσεως.

{ In the subjunctive and other non-indicative moods, the aorist is the “unmarked” aspect. It’s the progressive that would need an explanation. }
οὐ μανθάνω γράφειν, ἀλλὰ γράφω τοῦ μαθεῖν.

User avatar
Adelheid
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 424
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:58 pm
Location: Mijdrecht
Contact:

Re: Homer - Odyssey - Book II

Post by Adelheid » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:47 pm

Thanks. I know I am very shaky when it comes to the meanings of the moods, aspect and tenses. I will dive into my grammars again to straighten myself out.
Regards,
Adelheid
http://www.perispomenon.nl

User avatar
Scribo
Global Moderator
Posts: 884
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:28 pm
Location: Between Ilias and Odysseia (ok sometimes Athens).

Re: Homer - Odyssey - Book II

Post by Scribo » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:57 pm

It's conveying aspect.
(Occasionally) Working on the following tutorials:

(P)Aristotle, Theophrastus and Peripatetic Greek
Intro Greek Poetry
Latin Historical Prose

Post Reply