Can you Help with Techniques for Learning?

[grdSavant]

My goal is to sit a read some of the easier Platonic dialogs without having to laboriously look up 25-75% of the word forms. I'll read the Iliad, too, but I don't mind having to work at it a little harder.

I know this is a rather giant topic and there are myriad opinions, so I will not be bothered by contradictions.

Presently I am using both Shelmerdine's "Introduction to Greek, 2e," and Mastronarde's "Introduction to Attic Greek" as textbooks. I prefer Shelmerdine, but the other can't do me any harm. I have a lot of time so that isn't a problem. Fatigue and fear of burn-out are my only adversaries (I have mostly overcome the terror of the magnitude of the subject and the limits of my capabilities). As an adjunct, I've thrown in "Morice's Stories in Attic Greek," edited/by Anne Mahoney, which is a collection of contrived, easy reading ~100 word stories that I use to accustom my eye/brain to the look and feel of the Platonic Form of Greek as I read the stories.

So after one month and three chapters, I am going through both textbooks simultaneously, chapter by chapter, and I do not go to the next chapter number until I am positive that I have memorized the Shelmerdine vocabulary, but that has seriously impeded my progress through the books.

Okay; so; the real question is, is about ten words a week worth the wait? because at that rate I'll only do a chapter in both books about every two weeks. But I could otherwise blast through a chapter in each in less than a week (well, say six days, with rest on the seventh).

I have studied French and Ancient Greek before (forty and thirty-five years ago, respectively), and one thing I did not do was any memorization at all, which only rates me as a fairly poor student in those days (to say the least), and in consequence I did not learn much of anything (except that the French use of the definite article and their word order was weird compared to English, and Greek was even weirder, but at least the Greek inflections offered hints).

My major problem with learning languages in the past was that I did not understand the grammatical or lexical constructs of language and did not have any awareness of how to learn them. I even took a bonehead English class as a junior in college to see if that would help. Of course now we have the internet so I look up every little bitty thing I don't understand--which helps a heap!--but takes time--but who cares.

And, therefore, should I "almost" learn the vocabulary and continue at a more brisk pace or is it more advisable to burn the vocab into my brain? Personally I enjoy recognizing words I have learned, for certain, and the verb forms I know, in the Greek reading I do. Or should I get through all the stuff once and then maybe go back and re-read the textbooks after having gone through them completely one time?


Also,
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Does anyone know of a very simple Attic Greek reader that has very simple Greek sentences, like: I say. He says. Joe says. We say? and please, not Koine...I just couldn't....

[Anastasia]

I'd advise going at a slow pace at first. After a while, you will start noticing word formation patterns, and getting more of a "feel" for the vocabulary. At that point, you can step up the number of words per week.
Chase and Phillips Intro to Greek starts very simply, but that's what I learned from, so I'm predjudiced!

[grdSavant]

I'd advise going at a slow pace at first. After a while, you will start noticing word formation patterns, and getting more of a "feel" for the vocabulary. At that point, you can step up the number of words per week.
Chase and Phillips Intro to Greek starts very simply, but that's what I learned from, so I'm predjudiced!

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't know if it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. Either way, I am coming to wonder, may get to the same goal at the same time, assuming that one technique is as good as the other for learning--of course that is the question, I guess. Is one way better than the other? I may continue slowly and methodically and see if there is some "satori" moment in the near future as you (and some others) suggest.

I checked the reviews for Chase and Phillips' Intro to Greek and it recommends that the student have two years of prior Latin, meaning that one should have an existing understanding of grammatical forms, although I wouldn't think that that is necessary today (as compared to the 1940's), provided the student spends time referencing those things which are not already in their[contemporary gender-neutral singular] kit bag. But this text has a quite loyal following, since they say it is a fine reference even years after the formal classroom experience.

[grdSavant]

How to Study

As I begin my studies of Classical Greek, I have spent an inordinate amount of time the last month reading about texts, textbooks, and study aids, and the learning techniques and methods a person may employ. I have invested this time because I was not a very successful student in the past, which of course means, simply enough, that I didn't study.

In my travels, today I ran across what seems like a reasonably articulated approach for 1st semester students, by Dr. Anne Mahoney of Tufts University Classics Department. She outlines what may be a realistic expectation for how do it-- "How to Study in Elementary Ancient Greek," which includes recommendations of daily activities: http://www.stoa.org/~mahoney/teaching/grk1_f08.html (follow the links).

She says that one is expected to have learned 600 words in the first year! I didn't know that. Now I have at least one professor's opinion. In a few days I'll be up to 59 words, so apparently I'm on the right track. Anyway, check out her stuff. It is edifying.

--jerry

[tmesis]

Learning 10 words a week isn't enough; the slow progress will frustrate you. Is your reading knowledge of French passable?

I have looked at a great number of Greek textbooks. Assimil is by considerable distance the best course I have come across. Unfortunately for English speakers, it's available only in French and Italian. You should be able to complete the course in 3-6 months. At the end of the course, you'll be pretty well positioned to start reading the easier dialogues like Ion or Euthyphro with a commentary (the Bryn Mawr commentaries are good and cheap, by the way).

http://www.amazon.fr/ancien-Livre-Assim ... 2700503104

Glad to answer specific questions if you have any.

[grdSavant]

Learning 10 words a week isn't enough; the slow progress will frustrate you. Is your reading knowledge of French passable?

I have looked at a great number of Greek textbooks. Assimil is by considerable distance the best course I have come across ... in 3-6 months ... you'll be pretty well positioned to start reading the easier dialogues like Ion or Euthyphro with a commentary (the Bryn Mawr commentaries are good and cheap, by the way).

Sadly, my studies of French were perfectly similar and the same as my Greek -- not enough effort spent.

But you have said a couple important things. 1) "slow progress will frustrate you." And yes, that is certainly the case at this time, although now that I have all my online and hardcopy resources organized I can step up my progress through the material. We'll see what happens over the next 4-to-6 weeks.

Even now though, already I can take some pleasure (a real buzz, in fact) in recognizing words I know in some Greek reading.

2) Although it wasn't you intension, you did vote (I needed advice) on the first dialogs that I will be reading, Ion and Euthyphro, which are coincidentally the first two I read in English for my first philosophy class (eons ago).

There are analyses which report that there are 1000 words which represent 80% of the words in most of the Classical Greek that one might read. I can not be certain, but it seems if I only had to look up 20 percent, that could be satisfactory (assuming of course that one had the proper mix of paradigms and declensions).

Thank you tmesis for your words.

[Astrea]

I would suggest looking at the endings and learning them, it makes trying to translate/understand the words easier. Since the stem tends to be similar (unless it's irregular or aorist), for example, manthano (stem is math-) = i learn, ho mathetes = student/pupil, he mathesis = learning, and to mathema = the lesson - it's just the endings that differ and that changes the meaning but they all deal with learning. So, learn the endings is the best way to learning the meaning.
It helps with translation as well, since knowing which is the nominative, which is the accusative etc, you will know which word is the direct object of the sentence which is the subject and so on... and know the difference in person first, second, third, or participle, singular or plural for the verbs. Once you can figure all those out you'll have a much easier time figuring out the sentence, i find that more often than not, people have trouble with translating or making sense of the words is because the sentence structure is not the same as english and the position of the individual words in the sentence doesn't matter.