Please identify some Greek text

Here you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get help with a difficult passage of Greek, and more.
Post Reply
cb
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 762
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:52 pm

Post by cb »

hi, it looks like it comes from strabo 2, 5, 8; see the first sentence here:

http://hodoi.fltr.ucl.ac.be/concordance ... ure/69.htm

cheers :)

swiftnicholas
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:04 pm
Location: New York

Post by swiftnicholas »

Pytheas is a fascinating character. There is an interesting book by Duane Roller from 2006, Through the Pillars of Herakles: Greco-Roman exploration of the Atlantic, which touches on his explorations. Here is the note I made about Pytheas while reading about Greek geography last year:

Pytheas c. 330 BC

He wrote πε?ὶ τοῦ Ὠκεανοῦ

He was a Greek from the colony of Massalia who explored the Atlantic coasts of Europe as far north as possible. Most were skeptical of his claims in antiquity, although, according to Dilke, Eratosthenes appreciated his astronomical data. His main goal seems to have been to work out latitudes for some of the remoter places, either by the length of the longest day, or through the height of the sun at the winter solstice. The word used for latitude is κλίματα, climate or inclination, and so clime. He knew the exact location of the celestial pole, and worked out the latitude of Massalia as 43°12’ N, very close to the correct value of 43°15’.

He may have been the first Mediterranean person to see the summer night of high latitudes, where the light of the sun shines dimly all night and moves in a reverse direction from the west to the east. In any case, he uses rare vocabulary to describe his trip.

πα?αυγάζομαι: to give the appearance of shining
π?οσά?κτιον: northward
πα?ωκεανῖτις: the ocean coast

(As well as an interesting phrase preserved only in Pliny’s Latin angusto lucis ambitu, the narrow course of light.)

He describes the latitude at one location by saying that the sun only rose three peches, which has been calculated as at least 61°17’. There are only three places in the north Atlantic where this latitude touches land: southern Greenland, the Faeroe Islands, or the Norwegian coast north of Bergen.

A statement by Aetius that Pytheas attributed low and high tides to the phases of the moon may mean that he was the first to associated tidal activity to the moon (Roller 77, Aetius 3.17.2, Pliny NH.2.217).

The most famous destination was Thoule. It is disputed whether or not he actually arrived at an island called Thoule, or simply heard about it. It became synonymous with remoteness, notably in Virgil, Georgics 1.30, ultima Thule. Roller understands Thoule to be Iceland. Geminos (Phenomena 6.9) quotes Pytheas as having seen “where the sun sleeps? (ὄπου ? ἥλιος κοιμᾶται). It was described as a day south of the frozen sea (πεπηγυία θάλαττα), and he mentions a place where the sea boils or breathes (both from ζέω), which could reflect volcanic activity on Iceland.

ἥν φησι Πυθέας ἀπὸ μὲν τῆς Β?εττανικῆς ἓξ ἡμε?ῶν πλοῦν ἀπέχειν π?ὸς ἄ?κτον, ?γγὺς δ᾽ εἶναι τῆς πεπηγυίας θαλάττης (Strabo 1.4.2)

[Thoule] which Pytheas says is a six days’ sail north of Britain, and is near the frozen sea.

swiftnicholas
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:04 pm
Location: New York

Post by swiftnicholas »

Deleted duplicate post.

Faylasoof
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Plato’s Republic

Please identify some Greek text

Post by Faylasoof »

Pytheas’ journey from Massalia (Marseille) to northern Europe followed by “Ultima Thule? and back, as recounted in his book πε?ὶ τοῦ Ὠκεανοῦ (On the Ocean), would have been rather shocking when it first came out in 320 BC. The book described a world unrecognisable to the peoples of the Mediterranean who only knew what was there up to the Straits of Gibraltar (Pillars of Hercules). No wonder it came under severe criticism from some of his fellow Greeks who called him an outright liar.

Although this book has been lost for almost 2000 yrs, it has been commented upon by countless scholars since ancient times and we still have scraps of Pytheas’ account that describe, Brittany, the British Isles, the Orkney Islands (next visited 400yrs later by the Roman general, Julius Agricola), the eastern coast of the North Sea and an island which came to be known as “Thule?. The Venerable Bede (8th century) believed this to be Iceland. He talks of travellers coming from “Thule where the sun is visible for several nights on end in midsummer.?

The Irish monk Dicuil, working at the courts of Louis the Pious and Charlemagne, also went into the description of “Thule?, as mentioned in his work “De Mensura Orbis Terrae?. Dicuil also criticizes some classical authors for their understanding, or rather misunderstanding, of Pytheas, esp. Pliny the Elder.

I haven’t read Duane Roller’s book (Through the Pillars of Herakles), but have come across the work of Barry Cunliffe, Professor of Archaeology at Oxford, entitled “The Extraordinary Voyages of Pytheas the Greek? ( http://www.amazon.com/Extraordinary-Voy ... 837&sr=1-6 ). Cunliffe ploughs through the last few thousand years of scholarship and sets the now lost work in the context of the world of Pytheas; a world of increasing conflicts between Greeks, Etruscans, Romans and Carthaginians for political and economic dominance of the western Mediterranean.
utlub ul-'ilm min al-mahad il al-laHad
[Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave]

aloimonon
Textkit Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:13 am
Location: Montreal, Canada

Post by aloimonon »

BTW, does anyone know who was the last person to have a full copy? Was it copied over to parchment, or did the last papyrus copies just wither away? Wikipedia has very little on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas#Literary_influence

For the interested, the comments on Amazon mentioned these additional references:

-:- Pytheas of Massalia: On the Ocean: Text, Translation and Commentary by by Christina Horst Roseman (0890055459)

-:- North to Thule: An Imagined Narrative of the Famous Lost Sea Voyage of Pytheas of Massalia in the 4th Century B.C. by John Frye and Harriet Frye (0802713939)
ἀλλ' ἔγωγε ἐξ αὐτῶν τούτων μᾶλλον αὐτὸν τεθαύμακα, ὅτι ἔν τε ἀλλοκότοις καὶ ἐν ἐξαισίοις πράγμασι αὐτός τε διεγένετο καὶ τὴν ἀρχὴν διεσώσατο. Dio LXXII 36.3

Faylasoof
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Plato’s Republic

Please identify some Greek text

Post by Faylasoof »


utlub ul-'ilm min al-mahad il al-laHad
[Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave]

aloimonon
Textkit Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:13 am
Location: Montreal, Canada

Post by aloimonon »

Faylasoof, thanks for that detailed reply. If the work was lost in the 1st century BC or AD, then I would guess that it is gone for good, except for fragments which might come to light from the Egyptian desert. As far as I can remember, works on papyrus rolls were only copied to parchment from the 4rth century AD and onwards. Going again from memory, I recall that the author of _Scribes and Scholars_ that papyrus rolls had a maximum life of 300 years, and that on average it was probably even less. It seems to me that at first guess it is unlikely that this work will turn up except perhaps as fragments from the sands of Egypt.

One other unlikely source would be from the Greek library in the Villa of the Papyri in Pompey, but so far only philosophical works have turned up, and not works of history (we really need more Hellenistic historians, especially with the loss of Diodorus' books 21-40).
ἀλλ' ἔγωγε ἐξ αὐτῶν τούτων μᾶλλον αὐτὸν τεθαύμακα, ὅτι ἔν τε ἀλλοκότοις καὶ ἐν ἐξαισίοις πράγμασι αὐτός τε διεγένετο καὶ τὴν ἀρχὴν διεσώσατο. Dio LXXII 36.3

Faylasoof
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Plato’s Republic

Please identify some Greek text

Post by Faylasoof »


utlub ul-'ilm min al-mahad il al-laHad
[Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave]

aloimonon
Textkit Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:13 am
Location: Montreal, Canada

Re: Please identify some Greek text

Post by aloimonon »


ἀλλ' ἔγωγε ἐξ αὐτῶν τούτων μᾶλλον αὐτὸν τεθαύμακα, ὅτι ἔν τε ἀλλοκότοις καὶ ἐν ἐξαισίοις πράγμασι αὐτός τε διεγένετο καὶ τὴν ἀρχὴν διεσώσατο. Dio LXXII 36.3

Faylasoof
Textkit Neophyte
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Plato’s Republic

Please identify some Greek text

Post by Faylasoof »


utlub ul-'ilm min al-mahad il al-laHad
[Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave]

aloimonon
Textkit Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:13 am
Location: Montreal, Canada

Post by aloimonon »

Wow, thanks Faylasoof for your detailed reply.

I'll start by apologizing for my error- John of Nikiu's text was translated into Ethiopian and not Coptic. My mistake, sorry! It just hit me as I reread my post.
John of Nikiû's Chronicle was originally written mostly in Greek except possibly some of the chapters concerning Egypt which may have been written in Coptic to judge from the forms of the names. The work only survives in an Ethopian translation made in 1602 of an Arabic translation of the original. The text is in parts obviously corrupted with unfortunate accidental omissions. Most notably, a passage covering 30 years from 610 to 640 are missing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Niki%C3%BB

Thankfully, I was right in the case of Eusebius' chronicle:
The original Greek text is lost, although substantial quotations exist in later chronographers. Both books are mostly preserved in an Armenian translation. Book 2 is entirely preserved in the Latin translation by Jerome. Portions also exist in quotation in later Syriac writers such as the fragments by James of Edessa and, following him, Michael the Syrian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicon_(Eusebius)

I am very thankful for the research which you have done, but at the same time a bit saddened that the results did not indicate any translation of classical history into other languages. Still, it does mean that other Greek scientific works could turn up, and for that I'm thankful. And who knows, maybe there will be some discovery of lost books of classical history, either from some monastery, the sands of Egypt or some other esoteric source (e.g. Villa of the Papyri in Pompei).

Again, thanks for your lengthy reply.
ἀλλ' ἔγωγε ἐξ αὐτῶν τούτων μᾶλλον αὐτὸν τεθαύμακα, ὅτι ἔν τε ἀλλοκότοις καὶ ἐν ἐξαισίοις πράγμασι αὐτός τε διεγένετο καὶ τὴν ἀρχὴν διεσώσατο. Dio LXXII 36.3

annis
Textkit Zealot
Posts: 3399
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Contact:

Post by annis »

Interestingly enough, next week's episode of In Our Time (Th, Oct 2) will be on the Arabic translations of Greek philosophy.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;

Post Reply