..., ὁ δὲ σοφόν τι ἐζήτει καὶ ἐλθεῖν οὐκ ἤθελεν.

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Asterisk1234
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..., ὁ δὲ σοφόν τι ἐζήτει καὶ ἐλθεῖν οὐκ ἤθελεν.

Post by Asterisk1234 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:45 pm

M Unit 19 - P.162 exercise III, #7

The Key translates that as: ".., but he was seeking something wise, and was not willing to come."

I understand that:
ὀ is the definite article, masculine, singular, nominative;
σοφὀν is an adjective (perhaps used substantively), neuter, singular, nominative or accusative or vocative, OR masculine, singular, accusative;
τι is neuter, singular, nominative or accusative.

Therefore, it seems that the gender or case of the adjective and of the indefinite do not match the definite article's gender or case.

What am I missing?

Thanks to all.

polemistes
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Re: ..., ὁ δὲ σοφόν τι ἐζήτει καὶ ἐλθεῖν οὐκ ἤθελεν.

Post by polemistes » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:10 pm

To be sure how this sentence works the whole is needed. It's better if you post the whole sentence in your question, and choose a descriptive title instead.

Still, it's quite clear that ὁ δέ here is the subject and σοφόν τι is the object. You probably know that the definite article used with particles like this, ὁ μέν and ὁ δέ, can be used as pronouns when there is a contrast. This is also possible with ὁ δέ without a preceding ὁ μέν, if there is a contrast to the subject in the previous phrase. I googled the sentence and found that ὁ δέ points to Socrates, contrasting the subject "we" in the previous phrase.

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seneca2008
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Re: ..., ὁ δὲ σοφόν τι ἐζήτει καὶ ἐλθεῖν οὐκ ἤθελεν.

Post by seneca2008 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:17 pm

Who is the subject and what is the object?

You correctly worked out that “Therefore, it seems that the gender or case of the adjective and of the indefinite do not match the definite article's gender or case.” So what does that tell you?

The sentence is “τὸν Σωκράτη εἰς τὸν οἶκον πολλάκις ἐκαλοῦμεν, ὁ δὲ σοφόν τι ἐζήτει καὶ ἐλθεῖν οὐκ ἤθελεν”

So Socrates is the object of ἐκαλοῦμεν in the first clause. In the second he is the subject ὁ which belongs with ἐζήτει etc.

Does that explain it enough so that you can try again?

Edit cross post with polemistes but I may as well leave it.

Asterisk1234
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Re: ..., ὁ δὲ σοφόν τι ἐζήτει καὶ ἐλθεῖν οὐκ ἤθελεν.

Post by Asterisk1234 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:02 am

Thanks Polemistes and Seneca.

Your help is invaluable.

Yes! of course! Unit 12.3, "Pronominal Use of the Article", b. "preceding δέ used alone"
I'm now on unit 19... unit 12 is a distant memory... :oops:

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Barry Hofstetter
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Re: ..., ὁ δὲ σοφόν τι ἐζήτει καὶ ἐλθεῖν οὐκ ἤθελεν.

Post by Barry Hofstetter » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:46 am

"A distant memory..." :)

Here's a trick: every time you sit down to do the next section in your text, review a previous section (unit, chapter, whatever they call it). Not the exercises again, simply read through the explanations and examples. Start with chapter 1 doing one section each time, until you catch up with yourself. Then start over again. This helped me a great deal, and students who have followed this advice have always found it good.
N.E. Barry Hofstetter
The Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy
καὶ σὺ τὸ σὸν ποιήσεις κἀγὼ τὸ ἐμόν. ἆρον τὸ σὸν καὶ ὕπαγε.

Asterisk1234
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Re: ..., ὁ δὲ σοφόν τι ἐζήτει καὶ ἐλθεῖν οὐκ ἤθελεν.

Post by Asterisk1234 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:53 pm

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:46 am
"A distant memory..." :)

Here's a trick: every time you sit down to do the next section in your text, review a previous section (unit, chapter, whatever they call it). Not the exercises again, simply read through the explanations and examples. Start with chapter 1 doing one section each time, until you catch up with yourself. Then start over again. This helped me a great deal, and students who have followed this advice have always found it good.
Yes Barry - I agree. I have been doing that but only for the vocabulary of each unit. I will add a review of the explanations and examples, as you recommend.

Thanks.

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