ἄκουε τοίνυν ὡς ἐροῦντος.

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Constantinus Philo
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ἄκουε τοίνυν ὡς ἐροῦντος.

Post by Constantinus Philo »

ἄκουε τοίνυν ὡς ἐροῦντος. Literally this probably means something like listen now since I'm gonna tell.
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Re: ἄκουε τοίνυν ὡς ἐροῦντος.

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Phaedo 96a:
ἐγὼ οὖν σοι δίειμι περὶ αὐτῶν, ἐὰν βούλῃ, τά γε ἐμὰ πάθη: ἔπειτα ἄν τί σοι χρήσιμον φαίνηται ὧν ἂν λέγω, πρὸς τὴν πειθὼ περὶ ὧν δὴ λέγεις χρήσῃ.

ἀλλὰ μήν, ἔφη ὁ Κέβης, βούλομαί γε.

ἄκουε τοίνυν ὡς ἐροῦντος. ἐγὼ γάρ, ἔφη, ὦ Κέβης, νέος ὢν θαυμαστῶς ὡς ἐπεθύμησα ταύτης τῆς σοφίας ἣν δὴ καλοῦσι περὶ φύσεως ἱστορίαν: ὑπερήφανος γάρ μοι ἐδόκει εἶναι, εἰδέναι τὰς αἰτίας ἑκάστου, διὰ τί γίγνεται ἕκαστον καὶ διὰ τί ἀπόλλυται καὶ διὰ τί ἔστι. καὶ πολλάκις
ἐροῦντος is a future participle; with ὡς, it indicates purpose, and of course μου is understood: "Listen to me so that I can tell you." Socrates is asking Cebes to hear him out without interruption so that he (Socrates) can explain his idea. After he has finished, Cebes can ask questions.
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Re: ἄκουε τοίνυν ὡς ἐροῦντος.

Post by ἑκηβόλος »

Constantinus Philo wrote: Thu May 02, 2019 6:57 pm [Does this l]iterally ... probably means something like ["L]isten now since I'm gonna tell.["]?
I assume you are asking a question, so I've taken the liberty of turning your statement into a question. Another thing, please do us a favour and reference the quotes in the subject, or in the body of your opening post. The format is; Pl. Phd. 96a.

A literal translation is one that reflects all the meaning that the Greek expresses, without idiomatically supplying the details usually expressed in the target language, nor reducing the information supplied by the Greek, even though it not usual to express those details in the target language. Such a translation can show your understanding of the Greek.

Meaning is constructed in language using the lexicosemantic values of individual words, the grammatical meaning that we can derive from morphology, the morphosyntactic arrangement of words into phrases and the arrangement of phrases into the discourse structures of the language. Sometimes "literal" is used to mean that the higher levels of constructing meaning are not considered.

I interpret your request in this post as asking whether your literal translation achieves the goal of conveying all the meaning of the Greek.

τοίνυν is not a temporal reference marker for the verbs. It is a discourse level marker adding cohesion between the statement of agreement that ὁ Κέβης just made and what ὁ Σωκράτης is now saying. It is not an adverbial in the phrase structure as such, but rather it explicates the relation between this smallest part of the discourse structure and the previous one. In that way, it adds cohesion to the text.

ἄκουε is not just an imperative, it is a present imperative. It expresses the grammatical (aspectual) meaning of continuing to listen. That continuation could be continue as before, and/or continue into the future. As the first part within the smallest discourse structure it forms the temporal, situational or logical context in which the next verb operates.

ὡς ἐροῦντος is a future participle with ὡς. It is syntactically related to ἄκουε as a genitive indicating the person who should be listened to. "Me" is implied in Greek from meaning of the text at the discourse level, but explicated in your translation.
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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Constantinus Philo
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Re: ἄκουε τοίνυν ὡς ἐροῦντος.

Post by Constantinus Philo »

Thanks so ως here means so that, or on the ground that as Steadman says
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Re: ἄκουε τοίνυν ὡς ἐροῦντος.

Post by ἑκηβόλος »

Constantinus Philo wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 11:44 am"on the ground[s] that"
That is like you original rendering as "since".

Hylander changed the verb from "listen" to "keep quiet" during his explanation. Bringing out that nuance (implied meaning) keeps the direction of ὡς. If you render the Greek using "listen", it might be more natural to say "since". In English, "Listen so that I can speak" is quite nonsensical.
τί δὲ ἀγαθὸν τῇ πομφόλυγι συνεστώσῃ ἢ κακὸν διαλυθείσῃ;

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