ημιν εγενετο

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Constantinus Philo
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ημιν εγενετο

Post by Constantinus Philo » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:12 pm

ηδε η τελευτη του ετaιρου ημιν εγενετο this is the last sentence from the Phaedo, I wonder what dative is ημιν? ethicus? commodi/incommodi? possessive? For me it looks like ethic., though all the translations have it as d of possession: our friend.
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Hylander
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Re: ημιν εγενετο

Post by Hylander » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:48 pm

Yes, it can be categorized as an ethical dative. The translations are correct, though. There's really no other way to translate this dative in English. "Our friend" gives effect to it.

"Ethical dative" is just a label that grammarians invented to lump together various uses of the dative, like similar grammatical terms such as "genitive of separation" and "accusative of respect" that refer to other cases in addition to the dative. Smyth doesn't use the term "ethical dative," but he does use the term "dative of association": "used with words denoting friendly or hostile association or intercourse" (sec. 1523). That's perhaps a little more precise than "ethical dative", but "ethical dative" is ok to use. Using the English expression "our friend" conveys the same idea even if it's not a literal translation.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 99.04.0007

Constantinus Philo
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Re: ημιν εγενετο

Post by Constantinus Philo » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:01 am

Thank,ur right as usual, in addition I have checked the section on dative in Goodwin. He classifies it as dativus commodi incommodi that verges on dativus possessionis, like η μήτηρ μοι ετελευτησε. A few other very old but still excellent Greek syntaxes in Russian treat this dativus the way Goodwin does. But ur right, the division is artificial.
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