Plato Rep. 361e middle for passive futures

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jeidsath
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Plato Rep. 361e middle for passive futures

Post by jeidsath »

ἐροῦσι δὲ τάδε, ὅτι οὕτω διακείμενος ὁ δίκαιος μαστιγώσεται, στρεβλώσεται, δεδήσεται, ἐκκαυθήσεται τὠφθαλμώ, τελευτῶν πάντα κακὰ παθὼν ἀνασχινδυλευθήσεται καὶ γνώσεται ὅτι οὐκ εἶναι δίκαιον ἀλλὰ δοκεῖν δεῖ ἐθέλειν.

Why is there apparently no care taken here between the middle future and passive future forms? γνώσεται at the end is passive, isn't it? But honestly δεῖ ἐθέλειν is confusing to me as well. I assume that δεῖ is the finite verb going with ὅτι and applies to all of it: "and he shall be known/know himself that he needs to be willing not to be just but to appear so." But if I'm understanding that correctly, I'd expect δίκαιον nominative, though that doesn't seem to be a big deal.

Regardless, it makes me think that I'm just confused my this whole passage, though it appears clear enough.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

Hylander
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Re: Plato Rep. 361e middle for passive futures

Post by Hylander »

Regarding future middle vs passive, see Smyth 807.

γνώσεται is future middle with active meaning.

γνώσεται ὅτι οὐκ εἶναι δίκαιον ἀλλὰ δοκεῖν δεῖ ἐθέλειν.

"He will learn that one [not 'he'] must wish not to be just but rather to seem just".

δεῖ is impersonal. It would take a dative of the person if it applied to a specific person. δίκαιον doesn't relate back to the subject of the sentence.
Bill Walderman

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jeidsath
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Re: Plato Rep. 361e middle for passive futures

Post by jeidsath »

Thank you, that really clears it up.
“One might get one’s Greek from the very lips of Homer and Plato." "In which case they would certainly plough you for the Little-go. The German scholars have improved Greek so much.”

Joel Eidsath -- jeidsath@gmail.com

mwh
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Re: Plato Rep. 361e middle for passive futures

Post by mwh »

More directly, Smyth 1737-38, making a semantic distinction that doesn't always (or often) apply, certainly not in verse.

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