Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10: What is the subject?

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Kurama
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Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10: What is the subject?

Post by Kurama » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:59 am

I am wondering what the subject of the subordinate clause introduced by "δῆλον ὅτι" is. Is it "τὰ Κύρου", or is it "τὰ Κύρου πρὸς ἡμᾶς"?

"Ἄνδρες στρατιῶται, τὰ μὲν δὴ Κύρου δῆλον ὅτι οὕτως ἔχει πρὸς ἡμᾶς ὥσπερ τὰ ἡμέτερα πρὸς ἐκεῖνον..." (Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10)
Last edited by Kurama on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Barry Hofstetter
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Re: Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.8-10: What is the subject?

Post by Barry Hofstetter » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:47 am

I would say τὰ...Κύρου. πρὸς ὑμᾶς functions as a predicate.
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Kurama
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Re: Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.8-10: What is the subject?

Post by Kurama » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:22 am

Barry Hofstetter wrote:I would say τὰ...Κύρου. πρὸς ὑμᾶς functions as a predicate.
Thanks. The reason I was in doubt is that Mather and Hewitt have this note:

"τὰ... Κύρου... πρὸς ἡμᾶς: the relation of Cyrus to us."

But I'm guessing what's going on is that they are suggesting the student to translate the whole phrase like that.

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Re: Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10: What is the subject?

Post by Altair » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:31 pm

I am wondering what the subject of the subordinate clause introduced by "δῆλον ὅτι" is. Is it "τὰ Κύρου", or is it "τὰ Κύρου πρὸς ἡμᾶς"?

"Ἄνδρες στρατιῶται, τὰ μὲν δὴ Κύρου δῆλον ὅτι οὕτως ἔχει πρὸς ἡμᾶς ὥσπερ τὰ ἡμέτερα πρὸς ἐκεῖνον..." (Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10)
To me it seems that the subject of δῆλον is everything in the sentence except for Ἄνδρες στρατιῶται and δῆλον itself. The phrase τὰ...Κύρου is the subject of οὕτως ἔχει πρὸς ἡμᾶς.

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Re: Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10: What is the subject?

Post by jeidsath » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:40 pm

Yes, I agree with Altair.

Does the δη goes with δηλον οτι (meaning something like “abundantly clear”)?
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Re: Xenophon, Anabasis I.III.9.8-10: What is the subject?

Post by Hylander » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:56 pm

δῆλον ὅτι is sometimes written δηλονότι. Although it could be analyzed as an impersonal expression, δῆλόν [ἐστιν] ὅτι followed by a subordinate clause, it functions more or less like an adverb, "clearly". Usually, as here, δῆλον ὅτι/δηλονότι doesn't precede the ὅτι clause, but instead is inserted as the second element or later, so the word order suggests that it should be analyzed as an adverb or a parenthetical expression, not as a main (non-subordinate) clause followed by a subordinate clause.

Since subordinate clauses introduced by ὅτι in Greek generally take a nominative subject and a finite verb, a clause with δῆλον ὅτι/δηλονότι is generally indistinguishable from a main clause modified by an adverb.

Links to LSJ:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... .lono%2Fti

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... D.H.%3Dlos

I agree with Barry: πρὸς ἡμᾶς is predicative. τὰ Κύρου is the subject. I think (1) πρὸς ἡμᾶς is too far separated from τὰ Κύρου to be part of the noun phrase, (2) it follows the verb, ἔχει, and (3) if πρὸς ἡμᾶς were part of the noun phrase with τὰ Κύρου, we would expect τὰ Κύρου . . . τὰ πρὸς ἡμᾶς.

But I think M&H's translation, "the relation of Cyrus to us" would be ok because English would need to supply a noun to translate τὰ Κύρου.

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