Mastronarde ch. 28

[swtwentyman]

The second chapter dealing with participles, including indirect discourse with them.

I'm having trouble grasping the difference between indirect discourse using infinitives and indirect discourse using participles. This is only my first day on the chapter so I may be jumping the gun a bit in posting this, but from the examples what I can suss out easily is that with participles the subject of indirect discourse tends to be the object of the verb and in fact these verbs tend more to be transitive than those used with the infinitive and deal more with mental activity, while the verbs with the infinitive are more declaratory or reporting. Am I on the right track? (But then "announce" is used with the participle...)

If it would help and if you're able, parallels with Latin would be especially welcomed. Thanks!

[Qimmik]

I don't think there's an analogous use of participles in Latin. This usage generally occurs in Greek with verbs of knowing, showing, perceiving finding, among others. (I took the list from Smyth.) You just have to learn which kinds of verbs take participles--and I'm not sure it's quite right to lump this kind of construction together with indirect discourse. Some of these verbs can take οτι + indicative in some contexts (where there is an emphasis on the perception or knowledge of a fact, for example).

In general, Greek has a lot more participles--and infinitives--than Latin or English, and makes use of them much more widely. It's a characteristic feature of the Greek language. You will need to get used to this.

[swtwentyman]

In general, Greek has a lot more participles--and infinitives--than Latin or English, and makes use of them much more widely. It's a characteristic feature of the Greek language. You will need to get used to this.

I'm finding this -- the main sentence of the extended reading passage for the chapter is five or six clauses/phrases? long, all but the last being with participles. The first chapter on them covered basically, at least in part, the Latin participle, cum-clauses, conditionals, and ablative absolute! Thankfully it's not all that difficult, indirect discourse (not trying to be contrarian; it's just what the book calls it) aside.

Thanks for the response as always. It seems to be one of those things that will come with experience, I guess.

[Qimmik]

You will be amazed at what Greek can do with participles and infinitives.