Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

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Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:27 am


Give the meaning of each of the following:
ὁ βοῦς, τοῦ βοός
ὁ ἡ παῖς, τοῦ τῆς παιδός
ὁ πατήρ, τοῦ πατρός
ὁ ἀνήρ, τοῦ ἀνδρός
ἡ γυνή, τῆς γυναικός
ἡ θυγάτηρ, τῆς θυγατρός
ἡ μήτηρ, τῆς μητρός
ὁ ἡ κύων, τοῦ τῆς κυνός
τὸ ὄρος, τοῦ ὄρους (ὄρε-ος)
ὁ βασιλεύς, τοῦ βασιλέως
ἡ ναῦς, τῆς νεώς
ἡ νύξ, τῆς νυκτός
ὁ Αἰγεύς, τοῦ Αἰγέως
ὁ Θησεύς, τοῦ θησέως
τὸ ὄνομα, τοῦ ὀνόματος
ἡ πόλις, τῆς πόλεως
ὁ Ἀγαμέμνων, τοῦ Ἀγαμέμνονος
ὁ Ὀδυσσεύς, τοῦ Ὀδυσσέως

Using the information supplied in the charts and lists above, give the definite article to accompany each of the following 3rd declension nouns:
1. κυνί (2 ways)
2. πατράσι(ν)
3. ἄνδρα
4. Ὀδυσσεῖ
5. ὀνόματα
6. μητέρες
7. θυγατράσι(ν)
8. γυναῖκας
9. ἀνδρῶν
10. νυκτί
11. νύκτα
12. θυγατρί
13. πόλεσι(ν)
14. ἄνδρας
15. βόες
16. ναυσί(ν)
17. Ἀγαμέμνονι
18. κύνα (2 ways)
19. γυναιξί(ν)
20. παισ(ί) (2 ways)


Read and translate:
1. ἐγὼ ἐμαυτὸν ἐπαίρω. τί σὺ σεαυτὸν οὐκ ἐπαίρεις;
2. ἡ παῖς ἑαυτὴν ἐπαίρει.
3. ἑαυτὸν ἐπαίρει.
4. ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐπαίρομεν.
5. σεαυτὴν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ (mirror) ὁρᾷς.
6. ἆρα ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ ὁρᾶτε;


Read aloud and translate (fill in appropriate reflexive pronouns where missing):
1. ὁ παῖς ἑαυτὸν ἐπαίρει καὶ πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν σπεύδει.
2. οἱ παῖδες ____ ἐπαίρουσι καὶ πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν σπεύδουσιν.
3. ἔπαιρε σεαυτήν, ὦ γύναι, καὶ ἐλθὲ δεῦρο.
4. ἐπαίρετε ____, ὦ γυναῖκες, καὶ ἔλθετε δεῦρο.
5. οὐκ ἐθέλω ἐμαυτὴν ἐπαίρειν : μάλα γὰρ κάμνω (I am tired)
6. οὐκ ἐθέλομεν ____ ἐπαίρειν : μάλα γὰρ κάμνομεν.
7. τίνι (to whom) λέγει ἡ παρθένος τὸν μῦθον; ἆρ' ἑαυτῇ λέγει;
8. ὁ πατὴρ τὴν θυγατέρα μεθ' ἑαυτοῦ καθίζει (makes...sit down)
9. οἱ πατέρες τὰς θυγατέρας μεθ' ____ καθίζουσιν.
10. ὁ παῖς τὸν τοῦ πατρὸς κύνα ὁρᾷ τὸν ἑαυτοῦ.
11. μὴ εἴσιτε εἰς τὸ ἄντρον, ὦ φίλοι : αὐτοὶ γὰρ ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς εἰς μέγιστον κίνδῡνον ἄγετε.
12.βοήθει ἡμῖν, ὦ Ὀδυσσεῦ: οὐ γὰρ δυνάμεθα (we are able) ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς σῳζειν.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:34 pm

is everyone still working on 7a? Should we pause here for another week?

(I'm still catching up.)

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:36 pm

klewlis wrote:is everyone still working on 7a? Should we pause here for another week?

(I'm still catching up.)
I think so. I don't think we're quite ready for 7β yet. I just posted corrections to my 6β. I'll be working on 7α this week.

What do others think?

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:05 pm

klewlis wrote:is everyone still working on 7a? Should we pause here for another week?

(I'm still catching up.)
yes, thank you. I'll post my 7A next week. :D
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:12 pm

I'm gonna start reading the story and going over the vocab and grammar now. I should be ready to start the exercises on Monday.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:36 pm

I decided to go ahead and sit down with it. Here are my answers for 7α.

Exercise 7β
ὁ βοῦς, τοῦ βοός ox
ὁ/ἡ παῖς, τοῦ/τῆς παιδός boy/girl
ὁ πατήρ, τοῦ πατρός father
ὁ ἀνήρ, τοῦ ἀνδρός man, husband
ἡ γυνή, τῆς γυναῖκος woman, wife
ἡ θυγάτηρ, τῆς θυγατρός daughter
ἡ μήτηρ, τῆς μητρός mother
ὁ/ἡ κύων, τοῦ/τῆς κυνός dog
τὸ ὄρος, τοῦ ὄρους hill
ὁ βασιλεύς, τοῦ βασιλέως king
ἡ ναῦς, τῆς νεώς ship
ἡ νύξ, τῆς νυκτός night
ὁ Αἰγεύς, τοῦ Αἰγέως Aegeus
ὁ Θησεύς, τοῦ Θησέως Theseus
τὸ ὄνομα (τοὔνομα), τοῦ ὀνόματος name
ἡ πόλις, τῆς πόλεως city-state
ὁ Ἀγαμέμνων, τοῦ Ἀγαμέμνονος Agamemnon
ὁ Ὀδυσσεύς, τοῦ Ὀδυσσέως Odysseus
1. τῷ κυνί or τῇ κυνί
2. τοῖς πατράσι(ν)
3. τὸν ἄνδρα
4. τῷ Ὀδυσσεῖ
5. τὰ ὀνόματα
6. αἱ μητέρες
7. ταῖς θυγατράσι(ν)
8. τὰς γυναῖκας
9. τῶν ἀνδρῶν
10. τῇ νυκτί
11. τὴν νύκτα
12. τῇ θυγατρί
13. ταῖς πόλεσι(ν)
14. τοὺς ἄνδρας
15. οἱ βόες
16. ταῖς ναυσί(ν)
17. τῷ Ἀγαμέμνονι
18. τὸν κύνα or τὴν κύνα
19. ταῖς γυναιξί(ν)
20. τοῖς παισί(ν) or ταῖς παισί(ν)

Exercise 7γ
1. I am lifting myself up. Why aren't you lifting yourself up?
2. The girl is lifting herself up.
3. He is lifting himself up.
4. We are lifting ourselves up.
5. You (f.s.) are seeing yourself in the mirror.
6. Do you (p.) see yourselves in the mirror?

Exercise 7δ
1. The boy lifts himself (“gets”) up and hurries to the field.
2. The boys lift themselves (ἑαυτούς) up and hurry to the field.
3. Get up, woman, and come here!
4. Get up (ὑμᾶς αὐτάς), women, and come here!
5. I don’t want to get up; for I am very tired.
6. We do not want to get up (ἡμᾶς αὐτούς); for we are very tired.
7. Who is the girl telling the story to? Is she telling herself?
8. The father sits his daughter down with himself.
9. The parents sit their daughters down with themselves (ἑαυτῶν).
10. The boy sees his father’s dog, but he doesn’t see his own.
11. Do not enter the cave, friends; for you yourselves are leading yourselves into grave (“greatest”) danger.
12. Help us, Odysseus! For we are not able to save ourselves.
Last edited by jaihare on Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by CanadianGirl » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:40 pm

I'll post 7A tomorrow then be ready for 7B. Taking a little longer than I thought to do the assignments.
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:41 pm

CanadianGirl wrote:I'll post 7A tomorrow then be ready for 7B. Taking a little longer than I thought to do the assignments.
Thumbs up.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:42 pm

Is everyone still going along with us?

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:45 pm

jaihare wrote:Is everyone still going along with us?
going to post 7A tomorrow
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:59 pm

Hello, everybody this is my 7A - exercises 7B 7γ 7δ
Exercise 7B
1. τῷ τῇ κυνί
2. τοῖς πατράσιν
3. τὸν ἄνδρα
4. τῷ Ὀδυσσεῖ
5. τὰ ὀνόματα
6. αἱ μετέρες
7. ταῖς θυγατράσιν
8. τὰς γυναῖκας
9. τῶν ἀνδρῶν
10. τῇ νυκτί
11. τὴν νύκτα
12. τῇ θυγατρί
13. ταῖς πόλεσι
14. τοὺς ἄνδρας
15. οἱ βόες
16. ταῖς ναυσίν
17. τῷ Ἀγαμέμνονι
18. τὸν τὴν κύνα
19. ταῖς γυναιξίν
20. τοῖς ταῖς παισίν

Exercise 7γ
1. I am getting up. Why aren't you?
2. The little girl gets up / is getting up
3. He / it gets up / is getting up
4. We are getting up
5. You see yourself (F) in the mirror
6. Do you see yourselves in the mirror?

Exercise 7δ
2. οἱ παῖδες ἑαυτούς - αὑτούς - σφᾶς αὐτούς.....
4. ἐπαίρετε ὑμᾶς αὐτάς....
6. οὐκ ἐθέλομεν ἡμᾶς αὐτάς ἐπαίρειν...
9. οἱ πατέρες τὰς θυγατέρας μεθ'ἑαυτῶν - μεθ'αὑτῶν -
μετὰ σφῶν αὐτῶν
Translation
1. The boy gets up and hurries to the field
2. The boys get up and hurry to the field
3. Get up, wife, and come here
4. Get up, women, and come here
5. I do not want to get up, for I am very tired
6. We do not want to get up, for we are very tired
7. Whom is the young woman telling the story to? To herself?
8. The father makes the daughter sit down with himself
9. The fathers make the daughters sit down with themselves
10. The boy sees his father's dog, but he does not see his own
11. Do not go into the cave, friends: for you yourselves are heading to a great danger
12. Help us, Odusseus: for we are not able to save ourselves
:)
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:48 pm

After comparing and fixing my mistakes, this is what is left
jaihare wrote: Exercise 7γ
1. I am lifting myself up. Why are you lifting yourself up?
Why aren't you? or Why are you not? if you prefer
4. We are living ourselves up.
typo
Exercise 7δ
4. Get up (σεαυτάς), women, and come here!
ὑμᾶς αὐτάς, I think
7. To is the girl telling the story to? Is she telling herself?
Whom is the girl.....?
9. The parents sit their daughters down with themselves (ἑαυτῶν).
Are you sure πατέρες means parents?
11. Do not enter the cave, friends; for you yourselves are leading yourselves into grave (“greatest”) danger.
Mine is a bit different, but the English resulting from this sentence is ridiculous at best, however it is translated.
This week there were fewer discrepancies between your exercises and mine. Yet, I think the exercises provided by the book are definitely not sufficient to master the grammar. For me, it takes a lot more than that to feel confident and be able to read and understand at first glance.
:)
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by CanadianGirl » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:25 pm

I omitted alpha and beta-I think they are just for exercise-so here is gamma and delta. I am working on Lesson 7, part 2. I wish we could do more 'conferencing' but I suppose all our schedules won't allow that.

Read and translate:
1. ἐγὼ ἐμαυτὸν ἐπαίρω. τί σὺ σεαυτὸν οὐκ ἐπαίρεις;
Ι am getting up (getting myself up). Why don’t you get yourself up?
2. ἡ παῖς ἑαυτὴν ἐπαίρει.
The girl is getting herself up.
3. ἑαυτὸν ἐπαίρει.
He gets himself up.
4. ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐπαίρομεν.
We are getting (or lifting) ourselves up.
5. σεαυτὴν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ (mirror) ὁρᾷς.
You see yourself in the mirror.
6. ἆρα ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ ὁρᾶτε;
Do you (plural) see yourselves in the mirror?


Read aloud and translate (fill in appropriate reflexive pronouns where missing):
1. ὁ παῖς ἑαυτὸν ἐπαίρει καὶ πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν σπεύδει.
The boy gets himself up and hurries to the field.
2. οἱ παῖδες ____ ἐπαίρουσι καὶ πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν σπεύδουσιν.
The boys get themselves up (εαυτους) and hurry to the field.
3. ἔπαιρε σεαυτήν, ὦ γύναι, καὶ ἐλθὲ δεῦρο.
Get yourself up, woman and come here.
4. ἐπαίρετε ____, ὦ γυναῖκες, καὶ ἔλθετε δεῦρο.
Get σεαυτας (yourselves) up, women, and come here.
5. οὐκ ἐθέλω ἐμαυτὴν ἐπαίρειν : μάλα γὰρ κάμνω (I am tired)
I do not wish to get myself up (or to get up): for I am very tired.
6. οὐκ ἐθέλομεν ____ ἐπαίρειν : μάλα γὰρ κάμνομεν.
We do not wish to get ourselves αυτους up: for we are very tired.
7. τίνι (to whom) λέγει ἡ παρθένος τὸν μῦθον; ἆρ' ἑαυτῇ λέγει;
To whom does the girl tell the fable (story) to? Is she telling it herself?
8. ὁ πατὴρ τὴν θυγατέρα μεθ' ἑαυτοῦ καθίζει.
The father sits the daughter down with himself.
9. οἱ πατέρες τὰς θυγατέρας μεθ' ____ καθίζουσιν.
The fathers sit the daughters down with (εαυτων) themselves. (Or is it -'sit themselves down with the daughters' ?)
10. ὁ παῖς τὸν τοῦ πατρὸς κύνα ὁρᾷ τὸν ἑαυτοῦ.
The boy sees the very own dog of his father (If there was a kai, I would add: And he sees his own dog). and he sees his own (dog).
11. μὴ εἴσιτε εἰς τὸ ἄντρον, ὦ φίλοι : αὐτοὶ γὰρ ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς εἰς μέγιστον κίνδῡνον ἄγετε.
Do not go into the cave, oh friends: for you are yourselves going into a great danger.
12.βοήθει ἡμῖν, ὦ Ὀδυσσεῦ: οὐ γὰρ δυνάμεθα (we are able) ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς σῳζειν.
Help us, Oh Odysseus: for we are not able to save ourselves.
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:04 pm

CanadianGirl wrote:I omitted alpha and beta-I think they are just for exercise-so here is gamma and delta. I am working on Lesson 7, part 2. I wish we could do more 'conferencing' but I suppose all our schedules won't allow that.
Unless you do it by yourself, as soon as I have time I'll compare our exercises and come up with my remarks.
you did a great job! μακρὸς γὰρ ἐστι ὁ σὸς πόνος, I hope it is correct.
And you have managed typing too! Have a nice weekend.
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:44 am

brunapogliano wrote:After comparing and fixing my mistakes, this is what is left
jaihare wrote: Exercise 7γ
1. I am lifting myself up. Why are you lifting yourself up?
Why aren't you? or Why are you not? if you prefer
4. We are living ourselves up.
typo
Exercise 7δ
4. Get up (σεαυτάς), women, and come here!
ὑμᾶς αὐτάς, I think
7. To is the girl telling the story to? Is she telling herself?
Whom is the girl.....?
9. The parents sit their daughters down with themselves (ἑαυτῶν).
Are you sure πατέρες means parents?
11. Do not enter the cave, friends; for you yourselves are leading yourselves into grave (“greatest”) danger.
Mine is a bit different, but the English resulting from this sentence is ridiculous at best, however it is translated.
This week there were fewer discrepancies between your exercises and mine. Yet, I think the exercises provided by the book are definitely not sufficient to master the grammar. For me, it takes a lot more than that to feel confident and be able to read and understand at first glance.
:)
Thanks for that! All of the corrections have been made.

As for "parents" for πατέρες, you can check that in LSJ (VII "in plural"). The technical word for "parent" is γονεύς, γονέως ὁ. It's declined like βασιλεύς, βασιλέως ὁ:

SG
γονεύς "parent, father, progenitor"
γονέως
γονεῖ
γονέα
γονεῦ
PL
γονεῖς
γονέων
γονεῦσι(ν)
γονέας
γονεῖς

But (1) we haven't had that word in our vocabulary and (2) πατέρες in the plural can be rendered as "parents" just fine in English. ;)

Your combing of my exercises is really helpful. Thanks a lot!
Last edited by jaihare on Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:48 am

For the most part, it looks like we'll be ready for 7β on Sunday, right? I've got a flight to Madrid on Sunday and on Monday night will be flying to either Toronto (for a couple of days) or Los Angeles (all week). Haven't decided yet. Either way, I'll take Athenaze with me to make sure that I stay on top of things.

Really enjoying this study with you guys. Keep up the good work!

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:56 am

brunapogliano wrote:I think the exercises provided by the book are definitely not sufficient to master the grammar. For me, it takes a lot more than that to feel confident and be able to read and understand at first glance.
I agree with you completely. I need to practice forms - especially when we get to the deponents in the future (for example, ἀκούσω > ἀκούσομαι and βαδίζω > βαδιοῦμαι) that are covered in chapter 12. I have a hard time remembering which verbs take a deponent future. Especially since ἀκούω simply becomes ἀκούσω in Koine (the same with βλέπω becoming βλέψω in Koine but βλέψομαι in Attic - not to mention the fact that in Koine it's transitive and has basically replaced ὁρῶ in most cases).

In short, I feel that more practice would be beneficial at all steps. But, what can we do? We could meet on Skype to ask each other questions in Greek, as I'm doing with Greek: An Intensive Course with Σαῦλος. Let me know if you're interested. We can first write up our own sentences using the grammar and vocab covered thus far, then do question circling on those sentences.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:11 pm

ok, I haven't been posting my answers lately because I've been behind and it's time consuming. Did 7A today, so I am posting this without looking at all your answers first, then I will correct myself based on the rest of you. :lol:

Using the information supplied in the charts and lists above, give the definite article to accompany each of the following 3rd declension nouns:
1. κυνί (2 ways) τῳ, τοις correction: τῳ, τῃ
2. πατράσι(ν) τοις
3. ἄνδρα τον
4. Ὀδυσσεῖ τῳ
5. ὀνόματα τα
6. μητέρες αἱ
7. θυγατράσι(ν) ταις
8. γυναῖκας τας
9. ἀνδρῶν των
10. νυκτί τῃ
11. νύκτα την
12. θυγατρί τῃ
13. πόλεσι(ν) ταις
14. ἄνδρας τους
15. βόες οἱ
16. ναυσί(ν) ταις
17. Ἀγαμέμνονι τῳ
18. κύνα (2 ways) τον, την
19. γυναιξί(ν) ταις
20. παισ(ί) (2 ways) τῳ, τῃ correction: τοις, ταις


Read and translate:
1. ἐγὼ ἐμαυτὸν ἐπαίρω. τί σὺ σεαυτὸν οὐκ ἐπαίρεις; I am getting up. Why don't you get up?
2. ἡ παῖς ἑαυτὴν ἐπαίρει. The girl gets up.
3. ἑαυτὸν ἐπαίρει. He gets up.
4. ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐπαίρομεν. We are getting up.
5. σεαυτὴν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ (mirror) ὁρᾷς. Look at yourself in the mirror. correction: You are looking at yourself in the mirror.
6. ἆρα ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ ὁρᾶτε; Are you looking at yourselves in the mirror?


Read aloud and translate (fill in appropriate reflexive pronouns where missing):
1. ὁ παῖς ἑαυτὸν ἐπαίρει καὶ πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν σπεύδει. The boy gets up and hurries to the field.
2. οἱ παῖδες ἑαυτους ἐπαίρουσι καὶ πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν σπεύδουσιν. The boys get up and hurry to the field.
3. ἔπαιρε σεαυτήν, ὦ γύναι, καὶ ἐλθὲ δεῦρο. Get up, wife, and come here.
4. ἐπαίρετε ὑμας αὐτας , ὦ γυναῖκες, καὶ ἔλθετε δεῦρο. Get up, women, and come here.
5. οὐκ ἐθέλω ἐμαυτὴν ἐπαίρειν : μάλα γὰρ κάμνω (I am tired) I don't want to get up, for I am very tired.
6. οὐκ ἐθέλομεν ἡμας αὐτας ἐπαίρειν : μάλα γὰρ κάμνομεν. We don't want to get up, for we are very tired.
7. τίνι (to whom) λέγει ἡ παρθένος τὸν μῦθον; ἆρ' ἑαυτῇ λέγει; To whom is the girl telling the story? Is she telling it to herself?
8. ὁ πατὴρ τὴν θυγατέρα μεθ' ἑαυτοῦ καθίζει (makes...sit down) The father makes his daughter sit down with him.
9. οἱ πατέρες τὰς θυγατέρας μεθ' ἑαυτων καθίζουσιν. The fathers make their daughters sit down with them.
10. ὁ παῖς τὸν τοῦ πατρὸς κύνα ὁρᾷ ἀλλ' οὐχ ὁρᾷ τὸν ἑαυτοῦ. The boy sees the father's dog but does not see his own.
11. μὴ εἴσιτε εἰς τὸ ἄντρον, ὦ φίλοι : αὐτοὶ γὰρ ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς εἰς μέγιστον κίνδῡνον ἄγετε. Do not go into the cave, friends; for you are leading yourselves into great danger.
12.βοήθει ἡμῖν, ὦ Ὀδυσσεῦ: οὐ γὰρ δυνάμεθα (we are able) ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς σῳζειν. Come to our aid, Odysseus, for we are not able to save ourselves.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:26 pm

Today I'm going to spend some time working on review and vocab, because I haven't been spending enough time on anything in general.

Tomorrow I will (hopefully) post the exercises for 7B, but don't hold it against me if I don't get to it...

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:35 pm

klewlis wrote:ok, I haven't been posting my answers lately because I've been behind and it's time consuming. Did 7A today, so I am posting this without looking at all your answers first, then I will correct myself based on the rest of you. :lol:
I think that's the best way to do it, isn't it?
klewlis wrote:5. σεαυτὴν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ (mirror) ὁρᾷς. Look at yourself in the mirror. correction: You are looking at yourself in the mirror.
6. ἆρα ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ ὁρᾶτε; Are you looking at yourselves in the mirror?
I think there's a difference between βλέπω πρός... "look at..." and ὁράω (ὁρῶ) "see." This should be "you see (are seeing?) yourself in the mirror." The same idea with "look at" might be: πρὸς σεαυτὴν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ βλέπεις and ἆρα πρὸς ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ βλέπετε; At least, that's how I take the difference between the two. Would you agree?

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:36 pm

jaihare wrote:
klewlis wrote:5. σεαυτὴν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ (mirror) ὁρᾷς. Look at yourself in the mirror. correction: You are looking at yourself in the mirror.
6. ἆρα ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ ὁρᾶτε; Are you looking at yourselves in the mirror?
I think there's a difference between βλέπω πρός... "look at..." and ὁράω (ὁρῶ) "see." This should be "you see (are seeing?) yourself in the mirror." The same idea with "look at" might be: πρὸς σεαυτὴν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ βλέπεις and ἆρα πρὸς ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ βλέπετε; At least, that's how I take the difference between the two. Would you agree?
Middle Liddell indicates that ὁραω can be used either way, but my sentence makes more sense in English (you wouldn't say, "you see yourself in the mirror"). "Observe" and "behold" could work too, but it would depend on context.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:41 pm

jaihare wrote:[
Your combing of my exercises is really helpful. Thanks a lot!
I Always comb mine before posting remarks. I don't like nor want to play the teacher or the "I-know-it-all" and I usually like receiving feedback about my work. :)
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:48 pm

jaihare wrote:
brunapogliano wrote:I think the exercises provided by the book are definitely not sufficient to master the grammar. For me, it takes a lot more than that to feel confident and be able to read and understand at first glance.
I agree with you completely. I need to practice forms - especially when we get to the deponents in the future (for example, ἀκούσω > ἀκούσομαι and βαδίζω > βαδιοῦμαι) that are covered in chapter 12. I have a hard time remembering which verbs take a deponent future. Especially since ἀκούω simply becomes ἀκούσω in Koine (the same with βλέπω becoming βλέψω in Koine but βλέψομαι in Attic - not to mention the fact that in Koine it's transitive and has basically replaced ὁρῶ in most cases).

In short, I feel that more practice would be beneficial at all steps. But, what can we do? We could meet on Skype to ask each other questions in Greek, as I'm doing with Greek: An Intensive Course with Σαῦλος. Let me know if you're interested. We can first write up our own sentences using the grammar and vocab covered thus far, then do question circling on those sentences.
Thank you for your kind offer. I would be interested but I have no more extra time to spend doing Greek. I've read your posts carefully and I appreciate your exercises and contributions. As I've already said in earlier posts I'm very busy and I see a time coming when I won't be able to keep up with the rest of you. However, I'll remember your proposal and I'll remind you later, when my workload is not so taxing. thank you again. :)
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano » Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:57 pm

klewlis wrote:Today I'm going to spend some time working on review and vocab, because I haven't been spending enough time on anything in general.

Tomorrow I will (hopefully) post the exercises for 7B, but don't hold it against me if I don't get to it...
thank you for your work posting the exercises. I was wondering: couldn't you just make a screenshot and paste it here? It should be less time consuming.
Hold it against you? I am only grateful. Besides, my biggest problem is not when you post the exercises, rather when I manage to write and post the answers. Have a nice week :D
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:00 pm

brunapogliano wrote:
klewlis wrote:Today I'm going to spend some time working on review and vocab, because I haven't been spending enough time on anything in general.

Tomorrow I will (hopefully) post the exercises for 7B, but don't hold it against me if I don't get to it...
thank you for your work posting the exercises. I was wondering: couldn't you just make a screenshot and paste it here? It should be less time consuming.
Hold it against you? I am only grateful. Besides, my biggest problem is not when you post the exercises, rather when I manage to write and post the answers. Have a nice week :D
Screenshot? I'm typing from the book. I guess you mean from the pdf online (I'll have to acquire it). Actually I wonder if I could copy and paste from the pdf--will try that today. I would rather have text than image, so that we can add our answers directly to it. :)

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:04 pm

Tried to copy and paste, but the greek letters don't come out.

No worries, though. I can keep typing them out. It's good exercise for me anyway.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:07 pm

klewlis wrote: Screenshot? I'm typing from the book. I guess you mean from the pdf online (I'll have to acquire it). Actually I wonder if I could copy and paste from the pdf--will try that today. I would rather have text than image, so that we can add our answers directly to it. :)
The pdf I have is secured, no select and copy possible. only screen or snapshots. But I think there must be a less demanding way for you. If anything comes to my mind, I'll tell you.
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:09 pm

I really don't mind typing it, and I am getting faster at it. :) Usually Sunday is the day I have time for it, so I'll continue that for as long as I can.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:18 pm

haha, I just tried to work on it, and the greek marks were coming out all wrong... it took me a few minutes to realize that it's because on this computer I switched to linux a few weeks ago, and haven't typed greek on it since then. The character map must be different. Switching to my other laptop.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:33 pm


Translate into English (1-5) and into Greek (6-10):
1. ἐλθὲ δεῦρο, ὦ παῖ, καὶ τὰς αἶγας πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν ἔλαυνε.
2. οἴκαδε σπεύδετε, ὦ δοῦλοι, καὶ σῖτον ταῖς αἰξὶ παρέχετε.
3. κέλευε τοὺς φύλακας τοῖς παισὶ βοηθεῖν.
4. ἆρ' οὐ τὸν χειμῶνα φοβεῖσθε, ὦ φίλοι;
5. ὁ αὐτουργὸς τοῖς κυσὶν ἡγεῖται πρὸς τὸν ἀγρόν.
6. We are leading the goats up the road.
7. The boys are not willing to obey the guards.
8. The guards want to help the boys.
9. The prudent girls fear the storm.
10. We wish to tell the names of the girls to the boy.


Read aloud and translate. Identify any interrogative pronouns or adjectives and any indefinite pronouns or adjectives.
1. τί ποιοῦσιν οἱ ἄνδρες;
2. ὁ ἀνὴρ μῦθόν τινα τῇ παιδὶ λέγει.
3. παῖδές τινες τοὺς κύνας εἰς τοὺς ἀγροὺς εἰσάγουσιν.
4. βούλομαι γιγνώσκειν τίς ἐν τῷ ἄντρῳ οἰκεῖ.
5. τίνα μῦθον βούλεσθε ἀκούειν περὶ γίγαντός τινος.
6. μῦθόν τινα βουλόμεθα ἀκούειν περὶ γίγαντός τινος.
7. τίσιν ἡγεῖσθε πρὸς τὸν ἀγρόν, ὦ παῖδες;
8. ξένοις τισὶν ἡγούμεθα, ὦ πάτερ.
9. τίνος πρόβατα τοσοῦτον ψόφον ποιεῖ;
10. τίνι μέλλεις παρέχειν τὸ ἄροτρον;


Read aloud and translate:
1. τίς ἐν τῷ ἄντρῶ οἰκεῖ; γίγᾱς τις φοβερὸς ἐν τῷ ἄντρῶ οἰκεῖ.
2. τίνα ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ ὁρᾷς; γυναῖκά τινα ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ ὁρῶ.
3. τίσιν εἰς τὴν πόλιν ἡγεῖ; δούλοις τισὶν εἰς τὴν πόλιν ἡγοῦμαι.
4. τίνος ἄροτρον πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν φέρεις; τὸ φίλου τινὸς ἄροτρον φέρω.
5. τίνι ἐστὶν οὗτος (this) ὁ κύων; ἔστι τῷ ἐμῷ πατρί.


Translate into Greek:
1. When Theseus arrives at Athens, he learns that his father is dead (τέθνηκεν).
2. His mother says to the young man (use ὁ νεᾱνίᾱς), "You are to blame; for you always forget (use ἐπιλανθάνομαι + gen) your father's words."
3. Theseus is very sad (use λῡπέομαι) and says, "I myself am to blame; and so I intend to flee from home."
4. But his mother tells (orders) him not (μή) to go away (ἀπιέναι).
5. Soon he becomes king, and all the Athenians love and honor him.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:19 pm

klewlis wrote:
jaihare wrote:
klewlis wrote:5. σεαυτὴν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ (mirror) ὁρᾷς. Look at yourself in the mirror. correction: You are looking at yourself in the mirror.
6. ἆρα ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ ὁρᾶτε; Are you looking at yourselves in the mirror?
I think there's a difference between βλέπω πρός... "look at..." and ὁράω (ὁρῶ) "see." This should be "you see (are seeing?) yourself in the mirror." The same idea with "look at" might be: πρὸς σεαυτὴν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ βλέπεις and ἆρα πρὸς ὑμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ βλέπετε; At least, that's how I take the difference between the two. Would you agree?
Middle Liddell indicates that ὁραω can be used either way, but my sentence makes more sense in English (you wouldn't say, "you see yourself in the mirror"). "Observe" and "behold" could work too, but it would depend on context.
As a native speaker of English, I would indeed say you see yourself in the mirror (σεαυτὸν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ ὁρᾷς), I see myself in the mirror (ἐμαυτὸν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ ὁρῶ) and he sees himself in the mirror (ἑαυτὸν ἐν τῷ κατόπτρῳ ὁρᾷ). Do you really have a problem with these sentences in English? :shock:

Consider this in English:
When I see myself in the mirror, I can't help but see traces of my father's face.
She didn't see herself in the mirror for so long that she had forgotten what she looks like.
They suddenly saw themselves in the mirror at the far end of the room and realized that they were alone.

These all seem like fine sentences to me.

At this point in the textbook, the authors have been using βλέπω πρός as "look at" and ὁρῶ as "see." Maybe that will change in the future, but it's generally advisable to stick with what the authors give you, I think. Just my opinion - for whatever it's worth.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:38 pm

As far as I can tell, my translation is acceptable.

I don't "have a problem" with your examples, given the right context. It's not how I would normally speak, so without any context to the sentences I will default to the more natural English.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:36 am

klewlis wrote:As far as I can tell, my translation is acceptable.

I don't "have a problem" with your examples, given the right context. It's not how I would normally speak, so without any context to the sentences I will default to the more natural English.
Maybe there are people out there for whom I eat ice cream daily is not a natural English sentence. Perhaps they would only use the word consume in such a sentence, for whatever reason. It seems odd to me that you would not think "see oneself in the mirror" is natural English. :shrug:

Saw myself in the mirror...
Saw himself in the mirror...

Seems pretty natural, since so many English speakers use it. This site is an English learning website, and you will see in the first example of reflexive pronouns how they say "John saw me" and "I saw myself in the mirror."

Oh well, I offered my thoughts. You don't like them. What can we do? Next!

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:41 pm

It's really not as problematic as you're making it out to be. ;)

In the sentences, we have no context. In the absence of context, I use the phrasing that makes most sense to me. Middle Liddell validates my translation. You're allowed to disagree with me, and I with you. No sense getting worked up over it.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:27 pm

Anyway, I arrived in Toronto this morning. One of my bags apparently didn't make it to the plane and is lost. Guess which one! My Windows Surface tablet, my Greek textbook, all of my toiletries and electronic components (1T external harddrive, 5x power bank for my cell phone, chargers and connectors). So, I won't be getting to Greek as I had hoped over the next couple of days. Ugh...

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by brunapogliano » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:28 am

jaihare wrote:Anyway, I arrived in Toronto this morning. One of my bags apparently didn't make it to the plane and is lost. Guess which one! My Windows Surface tablet, my Greek textbook, all of my toiletries and electronic components (1T external harddrive, 5x power bank for my cell phone, chargers and connectors). So, I won't be getting to Greek as I had hoped over the next couple of days. Ugh...
any hopes to get everything back? are you furious?
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:23 pm

brunapogliano wrote:
jaihare wrote:Anyway, I arrived in Toronto this morning. One of my bags apparently didn't make it to the plane and is lost. Guess which one! My Windows Surface tablet, my Greek textbook, all of my toiletries and electronic components (1T external harddrive, 5x power bank for my cell phone, chargers and connectors). So, I won't be getting to Greek as I had hoped over the next couple of days. Ugh...
any hopes to get everything back? are you furious?
I called Lost & Found twice this week from Toronto. Tried to call the airport authorities, but the line never connected. I'll go on Sunday to the authorities' office and see if they have seen anything of it. I'm afraid that it went home with one of the plane cleaners. :-/

I'm lucky to have a digital copy of Athenaze, so I've got a backup plan for the study. It just isn't convenient to study over the computer screen. If I don't get everything back by next weekend, then I'll start my plans for repurchasing. I'm not looking forward to spending so much money again...

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by jaihare » Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:20 am

Exercise 7ε
1. Come here, boy, and drive the goats to the field.
2. Hurry home, slaves, and give food to the goats.
3. Order (s.) the guards to assist the boys.
4. Do you not fear the storm, friends?
5. The farmer leads the dogs to the field.
6. τοὺς/τὰς αἶγας ἀνὰ τὴν ὁδὸν ἄγομεν.
Or, τοῖς/ταῖς αἰξὶν ἀνὰ τὴν ὁδὸν ἡγούμεθα.
7. οἱ παῖδες οὐκ ἐθέλουσι τοῖς φύλαξι πείθεσθαι.
8. οἱ φύλακες βούλονται τοῖς παισὶ βοηθεῖν.
9. αἱ σώφρονες (παρθένοι) τὸν χειμῶνα φοβοῦνται.
10. ἐθέλομεν τὰ τῶν παρθένων/κόρων ὀνόματα τῷ παιδὶ λέγειν (εἰπεῖν).

Exercise 7ζ
1. What (τί - interrogative) are the men doing?
2. The man is telling the girl a (τινὰ - indefinite) story.
3. Some (τινὲς - indefinite) boys are leading the dogs into the fields.
4. I want to find out who (τίς - interrogative) lives in the cave.
5. What (τίνα - interrogative) story do you (p.) want to hear, boys?
6. We want to hear a (τινὰ - indefinite) story about a (τινὸς - indefinite) giant.
7. Whom (τίσιν - interrogative) are you (p.) leading to the field, boys?
8. We are leading some (τισὶν - indefinite) strangers, father.
9. Whose (τίνος - interrogative) sheep are making so much noise?
10. To whom (τίνι - interrogative) do you (s.) intend to hand the plough over?

Exercise 7η
1. Who lives in the cave? A terrible giant lives in the cave.
2. Whom (s.) do you (s.) see in the cave? I see a woman in the cave.
3. Whom (p.) are you (s.) leading into the city? I am leading some slaves into the city.
4. Whose (s.) plough are you (s.) carrying to the field? I am carrying a friend’s plough.
5. Whose (s.) dog is this? It is my father’s (dog). (Lit. To whom is this dog? It is to my father.)

Exercise 7θ
1. ἐπεὶ δ᾿ ὁ Θησεὺς εἰς τὰς Ἀθήνας ἀφικνεῖται, γιγνώσκει ὅτι ὁ πατὴρ τέθνηκεν.
2. ἡ μήτηρ τῷ νεανίᾳ, “σὺ αἴτιος εἶ,” φησίν· “ἀεὶ γὰρ τῶν τοῦ πατρὸς λόγων ἐπιλανθάνει.”
3. ὁ Θησεὺς μάλα λυπεῖται καὶ λέγει, “αὐτὸς δὴ αἴτιός εἰμι· μέλλω μὲν οὖν ἀπὸ τῆς οἰκίας ἀποφεύγειν.”
4. ἡ δὲ μήτηρ κελεύει αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπιέναι.
5. δι᾿ ὀλίγου βασιλεὺς γίγνεται, καὶ πάντες οἱ Ἀθηναῖοι φιλοῦσιν αὐτὸν καὶ τιμῶσιν.

[This time I sat down and reviewed my answers. I think there are fewer mistakes than there have been in recent lessons. - JAH]

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:54 am

Sorry to hear about your luggage... I personally would be more burned about the laptop than the book!

(This is why I take all the important stuff on with me)

I've done the lesson and made a lot of mistakes in the last exercise, so it will be lots of red. Will post it shortly.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 7

Post by klewlis » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:12 am


Translate into English (1-5) and into Greek (6-10):
1. ἐλθὲ δεῦρο, ὦ παῖ, καὶ τὰς αἶγας πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν ἔλαυνε. Come here, child, and drive the goats to the field.
2. οἴκαδε σπεύδετε, ὦ δοῦλοι, καὶ σῖτον ταῖς αἰξὶ παρέχετε.Hurry home, slaves, and give food to the goats.
3. κέλευε τοὺς φύλακας τοῖς παισὶ βοηθεῖν. Tell the guards to rescue the children.
4. ἆρ' οὐ τὸν χειμῶνα φοβεῖσθε, ὦ φίλοι; Don't you fear the storm, friends?
5. ὁ αὐτουργὸς τοῖς κυσὶν ἡγεῖται πρὸς τὸν ἀγρόν. The farmer leads the dogs to the field.
6. We are leading the goats up the road. ἡγουμεθα τοις αἰξιν ἀνα τον ὁδον.
7. The boys are not willing to obey the guards. οἱ παιδες οὐ βουλονται τοις φυλαξιν πειθεσθαι.
8. The guards want to help the boys. οἱ φυλακες βουλονται τους παιδας συλλαμβανειν.
9. The prudent girls fear the storm. αἱ παρθενοι σωφρονες φοβουνται τον χειμωνα.
10. We wish to tell the names of the girls to the boy. βουλομεθα λεγειν τα ὀνοματα των παρθενων τῳ παιδι. ἐθελομεν λεγειν τα των παρθενων ὀνοματα τῳ παιδι.


Read aloud and translate. Identify any interrogative pronouns or adjectives and any indefinite pronouns or adjectives.
1. τί ποιοῦσιν οἱ ἄνδρες; What are the men doing?
2. ὁ ἀνὴρ μῦθόν τινα τῇ παιδὶ λέγει. The man is telling a story to the girl.
3. παῖδές τινες τοὺς κύνας εἰς τοὺς ἀγροὺς εἰσάγουσιν. Some boys are leading the dogs into the fields.
4. βούλομαι γιγνώσκειν τίς ἐν τῷ ἄντρῳ οἰκεῖ. I want to learn who lives in the cave.
5. τίνα μῦθον βούλεσθε ἀκούειν περὶ γίγαντός τινος. What story do you want to hear, children?
6. μῦθόν τινα βουλόμεθα ἀκούειν περὶ γίγαντός τινος. We want to hear a story about a giant.
7. τίσιν ἡγεῖσθε πρὸς τὸν ἀγρόν, ὦ παῖδες; Who are you leading to the field, children?
8. ξένοις τισὶν ἡγούμεθα, ὦ πάτερ. We are leading some strangers, father.
9. τίνος πρόβατα τοσοῦτον ψόφον ποιεῖ; Why are the sheep making so much noise? Whose sheep are making such noise?
10. τίνι μέλλεις παρέχειν τὸ ἄροτρον; To whom are you about to provide the plow?


Read aloud and translate:
1. τίς ἐν τῷ ἄντρῶ οἰκεῖ; γίγᾱς τις φοβερὸς ἐν τῷ ἄντρῶ οἰκεῖ. Who lives in the cave? A terrifying giant lives in the cave.
2. τίνα ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ ὁρᾷς; γυναῖκά τινα ἐν τῇ οἰκίᾳ ὁρῶ. Who do you see in the house? I see a woman in the house.
3. τίσιν εἰς τὴν πόλιν ἡγεῖ; δούλοις τισὶν εἰς τὴν πόλιν ἡγοῦμαι. Who are you leading into the city? I am leading some slaves into the city.
4. τίνος ἄροτρον πρὸς τὸν ἀγρὸν φέρεις; τὸ φίλου τινὸς ἄροτρον φέρω. Whose plow are you carrying to the field? I'm carrying my friend's plow.
5. τίνι ἐστὶν οὗτος (this) ὁ κύων; ἔστι τῷ ἐμῷ πατρί. Whose dog is this? It's my father's.


Translate into Greek:
1. When Theseus arrives at Athens, he learns that his father is dead (τέθνηκεν).
ἐπει ὁ Θησευς προσχωρει ταις Ἀθηναις, γιγνωσκει ὁτι ὁ πατηρ αὐτου τεθνηκεν.
ἐπει ὁ θησευς ἀφικνειται εἰς τας Ἀθηνας...
2. His mother says to the young man (use ὁ νεᾱνίᾱς), "You are to blame; for you always forget (use ἐπιλανθάνομαι + gen) your father's words."
ἡ μητηρ αὐτου τῳ νεανιᾳ λεγει, εἰ αἰτιος, συ γαρ ἀει ἐπιλανθανεσαι των λογων του πατρου σου.
... συ αἰτιος εἰ, γαρ ἀει ἐπιλανθανεσαι των του πατρος λογων. ??
3. Theseus is very sad (use λῡπέομαι) and says, "I myself am to blame; and so I intend to flee from home."
ὁ θησευς μαλα λυπουται και λεγει, ἐγω ἐμαυτον εἰμι αἰτιος και οὐν μελλω ἀποφευγειν ἀπο του οἰκου.
λυπειται (and can I use ἐμαυτον this way??)
4. But his mother tells (orders) him not (μή) to go away (ἀπιέναι).
ἀλλ' ἡ μητηρ του αὐτου κελευει αυτον ὁτι μη ἀπιεναι. (wasn't sure about the ὁτι here)
5. Soon he becomes king, and all the Athenians love and honor him.
δ'ὀλιγου γιγνεται ὁ βασιλευς και παντοι Ἀθηνοι φιλουσιν αὐτον και τιμουσιν.
... οἱ Ἀθηνοι ... τιμωσιν

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