Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

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klewlis
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Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by klewlis » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:02 pm

hopefully I will have time today to get all the exercises typed--it may come in pieces. :)


Read and translate the following forms, and then give the corresponding singular forms:
1. τῑμᾶτε (2 ways)
2. φιλοῦσι(ν)
3. ὁρῶμεν
4. οἰκεῖτε (2 ways)
5. ποιοῦμεν
6. βοῶσι(ν)
7. ὁρᾶτε (2 ways)
8. πονοῦσι(ν)


Read and translate the following forms, and then give the corresponding singular forms:
1. τῑμᾷ
2. φιλεῖς
3. ζητῶ
4. ὁρῶ
5. βοᾷς
6. οἰκεῖ
7. φίλει
8.τίμᾱ (don't know how to type both the - and the ' on the ι)


Copy, label nouns and verbs by function (S, C, DO, LV, TV, IV, IMP, INF), and translate:
1. ὁ κύων τὸν λαγὼν ὁρᾷ καὶ διὼκει πρὸς ἄκρον τὸ ὄρος.
Father shouts loudly (μέγα) and calls the slave out of the house.
2. ἆρ' ὁρᾶτε τὸν λαγών; τί οὐ λύετε τὸν κύνα;
What are you doing, friends? Why are you silent (use σῑγάω)?
3. οὕτω κωφός (deaf) ἐστιν ὁ ἀνὴρ ὦστε ἀεὶ μέγα βοῶμεν.
The boy is so brave that we honor him greatly (μέγα).
4. ἐν νῷ ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ (the city) βαδίζειν καὶ τοὺς χοροὺς ὁρᾶν.
We wish to walk to the temple (τὸ ἱερόν) and honor the god (use ὁ θεος).
5. μὴ οὔτω ῥαθῡμος ἴσθι, ὦ παῖ : ἶθι πρὸς τὸ ὄρος καὶ ζήτει τὸν κύνα.
Don't be so difficult, grandfather; for I am not to blame.


Read aloud and translate:
1. ἐλθὲ δεῦρο, ὦ παῖ : ὁ γὰρ ἡμέτερος δεσπότης ἡμᾶς καλεῖ.
2. τί ποιεῖτε, ὦ δοῦλοι; ἐγὼ μὲν γὰρ ὑμας καλῶ, ὑμεῖς δὲ οὐκ ἀκούετε.
3. ἆρ' οὐκ ἀκούετέ μου; φέρετέ μοι τὸ ἄροτρον.
4. ἀλλ', ὦ δέσποτα, νῦν φέρομεν αὐτό σοι.
5. ἡμῖν προσχώρει, ὦ παῖ, καὶ λέγε μοι τί πάσχεις.
6. τὸν ἐμὸν κύνα ζητῶ, ὦ πάτερ: ὁ δὲ φεύγει ἀνὰ τὴν ὁδὸν καὶ οὐκ ἐθέλει ἐπανιέναι (to come back).
7. θάρρει (cheer up) , ὦ παῖ: ἐγὼ γὰρ ἀκούω αὐτοῦ ὐλακτοῦντος (barking). ζήτει οὖν αὐτόν.
8. ὀρῶ αὐτὸν ἐπὶ ἄκρῳ τῷ ὄρει μένοντα (waiting): ἰδού, νῦν τρέχει πρὸς ἡμᾶς.
9. ἄγριος μὲν ὁ λύκος καὶ μέγας, ὁ δὲ παῖς τὴν μάχαιραν λαμβάνει καὶ τύπτει αὐτόν.
10. ὁ μὲν πάππος ἤδη πάρεστιν, ὁ δὲ Φίλιππος τὴν μάχαιραν αὐτοῦ λαμβάνει καὶ ἀποκτείνει (kills) τὸν λύκον.


Read aloud and translate:
1. αὐτὸς ὁ πάππος ἡμᾶς κελεύει (orders) σπεύδειν πρὸς τὸ αὔλιον: ὁ γὰρ αὐτὸς λύκος καταβαίνει ἀπὸ τοῦ ὄρους.
2. τὸν κύνα αὐτοῦ καλεῖτε: ἀνδρεῖος γάρ ἐστι καὶ τὰ πρόβατα εὖ φυλάττει.
3. σπεύδετε, ὦ παῖδες: τὰ γὰρ πρόβατα αὐτὸν τὸν λύκον ὁρᾷ καὶ πολὺν θόρυβον ποιεῖ.
4. ὁ κύων οὐ διώκει τὸν λύκον ἀλλὰ αὐτὸς ἀποφεύγει: ἄγριος γάρ ἐστιν ὁ λύκος καὶ μέγας.
5. νῦν δὲ ὁ αὐτὸς κύων τὸν λύκον διώκει: ὁ δὲ ἀποφεύγει πρὸς τὸ ὄρος.


Translate into Greek:
1. We no longer see many wolves in the hills, and they rarely (σπανίως) come down (use καταβαίνω) into the fields.
2. So we are amazed that Philip has killed (ἀπέκτονε(ν)) a wolf.
3. The same boy guards the flocks well (εὖ), but he does not always speak (say) the truth (τὰ ἀληθῆ).
4. So we ourselves intend to hurry to the hill and look for the body (use ὁ νεκρός).

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by klewlis » Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:23 am

question - from page 62 (or the first reading of Lesson 5 part Β)

The sentence is:
ἐπεὶ δὲ τῷ αὐλίῳ προσχωροῦσιν ὅ τε Φίλιππος καὶ πάππος, πολὺν ψόφον ἀκούσιν : ὑλακτεῖ γὰρ ἀγρίως ὁ Ἄργος, τὰ δὲ πρόβατα πολὺν θόρυβον ποιεῖ.

My question is what is the ὅ doing there? Seems like the sentence would make more sense without it; or am I missing something?

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by Calgacus » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:44 am

It's simply the definite article which (as usual in Greek) goes with the name Φίλιππος. The confusing bit is the acute accent (which makes it look a bit like a relative pronoun), but that's due to the enclitic τε "throwing its accent back" onto the word before it.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:36 am

Calgacus wrote:It's simply the definite article which (as usual in Greek) goes with the name Φίλιππος. The confusing bit is the acute accent (which makes it look a bit like a relative pronoun), but that's due to the enclitic τε "throwing its accent back" onto the word before it.
To add to this answer, the particle τε in this instance means "both," since it is taken with καί. ὅ τε Φίλιππος καὶ ὁ πάππος both Philip and grandfather (Klewlis, you missed the second ὁ in this sentence, by the way).

Also, it should read ἀκούουσιν rather than ἀκούσιν.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:24 pm

Just stating my intention to post Lesson 5 answers tomorrow.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by klewlis » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:00 pm

Calgacus wrote:It's simply the definite article which (as usual in Greek) goes with the name Φίλιππος. The confusing bit is the acute accent (which makes it look a bit like a relative pronoun), but that's due to the enclitic τε "throwing its accent back" onto the word before it.
ah yes, that was what confused me, thanks.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:36 am

Exercise 5β
1. τιμᾶτε “you (p.) honor” → τιμᾷς OR “honor (ye)!” → τίμα
2. φιλοῦσι(ν) “they love” → φιλεῖ
3. ὁρῶμεν “we see” → ὁρῶ
4. οἰκεῖτε “you (p.) dwell” → οἰκεῖς OR “dwell (ye)!” → οἴκει
5. ποιοῦμεν “we make” → ποιῶ
6. βοῶσι(ν) “they shout” → βοᾷ
7. ὁρᾶτε “you (p.) see” → ὁρᾷς OR “see (ye)!” → ὅρα
8. πονοῦσι(ν) “they work” → πονεῖ

Exercise 5γ
1. τιμᾷ “he honors” → τιμῶσι(ν)
2. φιλεῖς “you (s.) love” → φιλεῖτε
3. ζητῶ “I seek” → ζητοῦμεν
4. ὁρῶ “I see” → ὁρῶμεν
5. βοᾷς “you (s.) shout” → βοᾶτε
6. οἰκεῖ “he dwells” → οἰκοῦσι(ν)
7. φίλει “love (thou)!” → φιλεῖτε
8. τίμα “honor (thou)!” → τιμᾶτε

Exercise 5δ
1. The dog sees the rabbit and chases [it] to the top of the hill.
ὁ πατὴρ μέγα βοᾷ καὶ τὸν δοῦλον καλεῖ ἐκ τῆς οἰκίας.
2. Do you (p.) see the rabbit? Why aren’t you releasing the dog?
τί ποιεῖτε, ὦ φίλοι; διὰ τί σιγᾶτε;
3. The man is so deaf that we always shout.
οὕτως ἀνδρεῖός ἐστιν ὁ παῖς ὥστε μέγα τιμῶμεν αὐτόν.
4. We intend to go to the city and see the choruses.
ἐθέλομεν εἰς τὸ ἱερὸν βαδίζειν καὶ τὸν θεὸν τιμᾶν.
5. Do not be so careless, boy; go to the hill and look for the dog.
μὴ οὕτω χαλεπὸς ἴσθι, ὦ πάππε· ἐγὼ γὰρ αἴτιος οὐκ εἰμί.

Exercise 5ζ
1. Come here, boy; for our master is calling us.
2. What are you (p.) doing, slaves? For I am calling you, but you don’t hear.
3. Do you (p.) hear me? Bring me the plough.
4. But, master, we are bringing it to you.
5. Approach us, boy, and tell me what you are suffering.
6. I am looking for my dog, father; but he runs away up the road and does not want to come back.
7. Cheer up, boy; for I hear him barking. So, look for him.
8. I see him waiting on the top of the hill; look, he’s now running towards us.
9. The wolf is wild and big, but the boy takes his knife and strikes him.
10. On the one hand, grandfather is already present, but on the other hand, Philip takes his (grandfather’s) knife and kills the wolf.

Exercise 5η
1. Grandfather himself orders us to hurry to the sheepfold; for the same wolf is coming down from the hill.
2. Call (ye) his dog; for it is brave and guards the sheep well.
3. Hurry, boys; for the sheep see the wolf itself and are making a lot of noise.
4. The dog doesn’t chase the wolf, but runs away himself; for the wolf is wild and big.
5. The same dog is now chasing the wolf; and it (the wolf) is running away toward the hill.

Exercise 5θ
1. οὐκέτι ὁρῶμεν πολλοὺς λύκους ἐν τοῖς ὄρεσιν,* καὶ σπανίως καταβαίνουσιν εἰς τοὺς ἀγρούς.
* The dative plural of ὄρος hasn’t yet been provided in Athenaze.
2. θαυμάζομεν οὖν ὅτι ὁ Φίλιππος τὸν λύκον ἀπέκτονεν.
3. ὁ αὐτὸς παῖς εὖ φυλάττει τὰ πρόβατα, οὐ δ᾿ ἀεὶ τὰ ἀληθῆ λέγει.
4. αὐτοὶ οὖν ἐν νῷ ἔχοµεν πρὸς τὸ ὄρος σπεύδειν καὶ τὸν νεκρὸν ζητεῖν.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by ariphron » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:50 pm

Here are my solutions. I'll be skipping translation exercises into English for the time being. (I read them out loud, but I don't want to spend my Greek study time polishing English sentences.)



Read and translate the following forms, and then give the corresponding singular forms:
1. τῑμᾶτε (2 ways) τιμᾷς (pres.ind. 2) , τίμα (pres.imp. 2)
2. φιλοῦσι(ν) φιλεῖ (pres.ind. 3)
3. ὁρῶμεν ὁρῶ (pres.ind. 1)
4. οἰκεῖτε (2 ways) οἰκεῖς (pres.ind. 2), οἴκει (pres.imp. 2)
5. ποιοῦμεν ποιῶ
6. βοῶσι(ν) βοᾷ
7. ὁρᾶτε (2 ways) ὁρᾷς, ὅρα
8. πονοῦσι(ν) πονεῖ


Read and translate the following forms, and then give the corresponding plural forms:
1. τῑμᾷ τιμῶσι
2. φιλεῖς φιλεῖτε
3. ζητῶ ζητοῦμεν
4. ὁρῶ ὁρῶμεν
5. βοᾷς βοᾷτε
6. οἰκεῖ οἰκεῖτε
7. φίλει φιλεῖτε
8.τίμᾱ τιμᾶτε

Copy, label nouns and verbs by function (S, C, DO, LV, TV, IV, IMP, INF), and translate:
1. ὁ κύων S τὸν λαγὼν DO ὁρᾷ TV καὶ διὼκει TV πρὸς ἄκρον τὸ ὄρος.
Father shouts loudly (μέγα) and calls the slave out of the house.
> ὁ πατὴρ μέγα βοᾷ καὶ καλεῖ ἐκ οἰκίας τὸν δοῦλον.
2. ἆρ' ὁρᾶτε TV τὸν λαγών DO ; τί οὐ λύετε TV τὸν κύνα DO ;
What are you doing, friends? Why are you silent (use σῑγάω)?
> τί ποιεῖτε, ῶ πίλοι; τίς σιγᾶτε;
3. οὕτω κωφός C (deaf) ἐστιν LV ὁ ἀνὴρ S ὥστε ἀεὶ μέγα βοῶμεν IV.
The boy is so brave that we honor him greatly (μέγα).
> οὕτω ἀνδρεῖός ἐστιν ὁ παῖς ὥστε μέγα τιμῶμεν αὐτόν.
4. ἐν νῷ ἔχομεν IV πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ (the city) βαδίζειν INF καὶ τοὺς χοροὺς DO ὁρᾶν TV-INF.
We wish to walk to the temple (τὸ ἱερόν) and honor the god (use ὁ θεος).
> ἐθέλομεν πρὸς τὸ ἱερὸν βαδίζειν καὶ τὸν θεὸν τιμᾶν.
5. μὴ οὕτω ῥαθῡμος C ἴσθι LV-IMP, ὦ παῖ : ἶθι IV-IMP πρὸς τὸ ὄρος καὶ ζήτει TV-IMP τὸν κύνα.
Don't be so difficult, grandfather; for I am not to blame.
μὴ οὕτω χαλεπὸς ἴσθι, ὦ πάππε : οὐ γὰρ αἰτίος εἰμὶ εγώ.



Translate into Greek:
1. We no longer see many wolves in the hills, and they rarely (σπανίως) come down (use καταβαίνω) into the fields.
> λύκους οὐκέτι πολλοὺς ἐν ὄρεσιν ὁρῶμεν, οἱ δὲ σπανίως καταβαίνουσι πρὸς τοὺς ἀγρους.
2. So we are amazed that Philip has killed (ἀπέκτονε(ν)) a wolf.
> θαυμάζομεν οὖν ὅτι ὁ Φίλιππος λύκον ἀπεκτονεν.
3. The same boy guards the flocks well (εὖ), but he does not always speak (say) the truth (τὰ ἀληθῆ).
> ὁ αὐτὸς παῖς τὰ πρόβατα εὖ φυλάττει, ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ ἀεὶ λέγει τὰ ἀληθῆ.
4. So we ourselves intend to hurry to the hill and look for the body (use ὁ νεκρός).
> ἡμεῖς οῦν αὐτοὶ ἐν νῷ ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸ ὄρος σπεύδειν καὶ τὸν νεκρὸν ζητεῖν.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by klewlis » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:54 pm

Instead of typing out every word I will note where my answers were different, and maybe that will lead to discussion/feedback.
ariphron wrote:
exactly the same!


Read and translate the following forms, and then give the corresponding plural forms:
1. τῑμᾷ τιμῶσι
2. φιλεῖς φιλεῖτε
3. ζητῶ ζητοῦμεν
4. ὁρῶ ὁρῶμεν
5. βοᾷς βοᾷτε
6. οἰκεῖ οἰκεῖτε I had οἰκουσιν
7. φίλει φιλεῖτε I had φιλουσιν
8.τίμᾱ τιμᾶτε


Copy, label nouns and verbs by function (S, C, DO, LV, TV, IV, IMP, INF), and translate:
1. ὁ κύων S τὸν λαγὼν DO ὁρᾷ TV καὶ διὼκει TV πρὸς ἄκρον τὸ ὄρος.
Father shouts loudly (μέγα) and calls the slave out of the house.
> ὁ πατὴρ μέγα βοᾷ καὶ καλεῖ ἐκ οἰκίας τὸν δοῦλον. I had ἐκ του οἰκου
2. ἆρ' ὁρᾶτε TV τὸν λαγών DO ; τί οὐ λύετε TV τὸν κύνα DO ;
What are you doing, friends? Why are you silent (use σῑγάω)?
> τί ποιεῖτε, ῶ πίλοι; τίς σιγᾶτε;
3. οὕτω κωφός C (deaf) ἐστιν LV ὁ ἀνὴρ S ὥστε ἀεὶ μέγα βοῶμεν IV.
The boy is so brave that we honor him greatly (μέγα).
> οὕτω ἀνδρεῖός ἐστιν ὁ παῖς ὥστε μέγα τιμῶμεν αὐτόν.
4. ἐν νῷ ἔχομεν IV πρὸς τὸ ἄστυ (the city) βαδίζειν INF καὶ τοὺς χοροὺς DO ὁρᾶν TV-INF.
We wish to walk to the temple (τὸ ἱερόν) and honor the god (use ὁ θεος).
> ἐθέλομεν πρὸς τὸ ἱερὸν βαδίζειν καὶ τὸν θεὸν τιμᾶν.
5. μὴ οὕτω ῥαθῡμος C ἴσθι LV-IMP, ὦ παῖ : ἶθι IV-IMP πρὸς τὸ ὄρος καὶ ζήτει TV-IMP τὸν κύνα.
Don't be so difficult, grandfather; for I am not to blame.
μὴ οὕτω χαλεπὸς ἴσθι, ὦ πάππε : οὐ γὰρ αἰτίος εἰμὶ εγώ. I missed the ἰσθι here, careless mistake. I also wasn't sure on word order for the second clause. Yours and jaihare's are both different but I was leaning toward ἐγω γαρ οὐ εἰμι αἰτιος. Maybe we can touch on that.



Translate into Greek:
1. We no longer see many wolves in the hills, and they rarely (σπανίως) come down (use καταβαίνω) into the fields.
> λύκους οὐκέτι πολλοὺς ἐν ὄρεσιν ὁρῶμεν, οἱ δὲ σπανίως καταβαίνουσι πρὸς τοὺς ἀγρους. I had ὁρωμεν οὐκετι - is that awkward?
2. So we are amazed that Philip has killed (ἀπέκτονε(ν)) a wolf.
> θαυμάζομεν οὖν ὅτι ὁ Φίλιππος λύκον ἀπεκτονεν.
3. The same boy guards the flocks well (εὖ), but he does not always speak (say) the truth (τὰ ἀληθῆ).
> ὁ αὐτὸς παῖς τὰ πρόβατα εὖ φυλάττει, ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ ἀεὶ λέγει τὰ ἀληθῆ.
4. So we ourselves intend to hurry to the hill and look for the body (use ὁ νεκρός).
> ἡμεῖς οῦν αὐτοὶ ἐν νῷ ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸ ὄρος σπεύδειν καὶ τὸν νεκρὸν ζητεῖν.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by brunapogliano » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:04 pm

As I said in my first post, I may not (better, cannot) keep working at your pace.
last week I did not manage to do anything.
Before posting my replies, I write them on paper so I will just reply to those different from mine

Exercise 5β
no problem
ariphron wrote:
6. οἰκεῖ οἰκεῖτε
οἰκοῦσιν from: οἰκέ+ουσιν = οἰκοῦσιν (with circumflex because of the accent on the first of the contracted vowels)
7. φίλει φιλεῖτε
this is correct as φίλει is imperative 2sing
while
klewlis wrote: 7. φίλει φιλεῖτε I had φιλουσιν
φιλουσιν is 3rd plur. whereas φίλει is imperative 2nd sing, so the related imper. 2nd pl. is φιλεῖτε
bruna pogliano
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by brunapogliano » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:26 pm

I am going to write my work only where it differs from yours
[quote="jaihare
Exercise 5δ
1. The dog sees the rabbit and chases [it] to the top of the hill.
ὁ πατὴρ μέγα βοᾷ καὶ τὸν δοῦλον καλεῖ ἐκ τῆς οἰκίας.
2. Do you (p.) see the rabbit? Why aren’t you releasing the dog?

οὕτως ἀνδρεῖός ἐστιν ὁ παῖς ὥστε μέγα τιμῶμεν αὐτόν.
4. We intend to go to the city and see the choruses.
ἐθέλομεν εἰς τὸ ἱερὸν βαδίζειν καὶ τὸν θεὸν τιμᾶν.
5. Do not be so careless, boy; go to the hill and look for the dog.
μὴ οὕτω χαλεπὸς ἴσθι, ὦ πάππε· ἐγὼ γὰρ αἴτιος οὐκ εἰμί.
[/quote]

1. The dog sees the hare and chases (it) towards the top of the hill
Ὁ πατὴρ μέγα βοᾷ καὶ τὸν δοῦλον ἐκ τοῦ οἴκου καλεῖ
2. Do you see the hare? Why don't you loosen the dog?

Οὕτως ανδρεῖός ἐστιν ὁ νεανίας ὥστε αὐτὸν μέγα τιμῶμεν
4. We intend to go to the city and see the dances
Ἐθέλομεν πρὸς τὸ ἱερὸν βαδίζειν καὶ τὸν θεὸν τιμᾶν
5. Don't be so lazy, boy; go to the hill and look for the dog.
Μὴ οὕτω χαλεπὸς ἴσθι, ὦ πάππε• ἐγὼ γὰρ οὐκ αἴτιός εἰμι
bruna pogliano
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by klewlis » Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:30 am

brunapogliano wrote:As I said in my first post, I may not (better, cannot) keep working at your pace.
last week I did not manage to do anything.
Well it looks like we will be slowing down to half a chapter per week anyway.
7. φίλει φιλεῖτε
this is correct as φίλει is imperative 2sing
while
klewlis wrote: 7. φίλει φιλεῖτε I had φιλουσιν
φιλουσιν is 3rd plur. whereas φίλει is imperative 2nd sing, so the related imper. 2nd pl. is φιλεῖτε
And φίλει is also 3rd sg pres ind act :)

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:23 am

klewlis wrote:And φίλει is also 3rd sg pres ind act :)
Not really. It's φιλεῖ (φιλέ-ει → φιλεῖ). The imperative is φίλει (φίλε-ε → φίλει). The accent is important in this case.

οἰκεῖ is indicative (οἰκέ-ει → οἰκεῖ)
οἴκει is imperative (οἴκε-ε → οἴκει)

In the indicative, the long ending (-ει) draws the accent from the antepenult to the penult. It then contracts, and the accent stays where it was (which has now become the ultima). In the imperative, the short ending (-ε) does not draw the accent away from the antepenult. It remains on the previous syllable when the contraction occurs.

Regards,
Jason

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by brunapogliano » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:20 am

jaihare wrote:
klewlis wrote:And φίλει is also 3rd sg pres ind act :)
Not really. It's φιλεῖ (φιλέ-ει → φιλεῖ). The imperative is φίλει (φίλε-ε → φίλει). The accent is important in this case.

οἰκεῖ is indicative (οἰκέ-ει → οἰκεῖ)
οἴκει is imperative (οἴκε-ε → οἴκει)

In the indicative, the long ending (-ει) draws the accent from the antepenult to the penult. It then contracts, and the accent stays where it was (which has now become the ultima). In the imperative, the short ending (-ε) does not draw the accent away from the antepenult. It remains on the previous syllable when the contraction occurs.

Regards,
Jason
interesting enough, we get to the same conclusion but I would give a different reason for the accent. this is what I learned: in the indicative the accent is on οἰκέ-ει, but when contraction occurs, if the first vowel to be contracted is accented, then the result is a circumflex on the contracted Group, if the second is accented, then the result is an acute on the contracted Group, if neither is accented, the resulting contracted Group is not accented either.
So, as I know, the present is οἰκεῖ because the first vowel had the accent, before contraction.
Whereas, recessive accentuation in the imperative moves the accent before contraction takes place, thus we have no accented vowel to contract, resulting in unaccented contracted Group.
Does this make any sense to you?
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:50 am

brunapogliano wrote:
jaihare wrote:
klewlis wrote:And φίλει is also 3rd sg pres ind act :)
Not really. It's φιλεῖ (φιλέ-ει → φιλεῖ). The imperative is φίλει (φίλε-ε → φίλει). The accent is important in this case.

οἰκεῖ is indicative (οἰκέ-ει → οἰκεῖ)
οἴκει is imperative (οἴκε-ε → οἴκει)

In the indicative, the long ending (-ει) draws the accent from the antepenult to the penult. It then contracts, and the accent stays where it was (which has now become the ultima). In the imperative, the short ending (-ε) does not draw the accent away from the antepenult. It remains on the previous syllable when the contraction occurs.

Regards,
Jason
interesting enough, we get to the same conclusion but I would give a different reason for the accent. this is what I learned: in the indicative the accent is on οἰκέ-ει, but when contraction occurs, if the first vowel to be contracted is accented, then the result is a circumflex on the contracted Group, if the second is accented, then the result is an acute on the contracted Group, if neither is accented, the resulting contracted Group is not accented either.
So, as I know, the present is οἰκεῖ because the first vowel had the accent, before contraction.
Whereas, recessive accentuation in the imperative moves the accent before contraction takes place, thus we have no accented vowel to contract, resulting in unaccented contracted Group.
Does this make any sense to you?
Makes sense. It doesn't matter how you remember it (since we're talking about theories here) but just that you remember it. ;)

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:19 pm

Sunday came and went. Is anyone going to open up a thread for lesson 6α? Are we ready to move forward?

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by brunapogliano » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:45 pm

this is my Exercise 5δ
I took the liberty to collate Ariphron's Klewlis's and my work

Ariphr. > ὁ πατὴρ μέγα βοᾷ καὶ καλεῖ ἐκ οἰκίας τὸν δοῦλον. ἐκ τῆςοἰκίας - article missing
Klewlis > I had ἐκ του οἰκου I think both ἐκ τοῦ οἴκου and ἐκ τῆς οἰκίας are correct
Bruna Ὁ πατὴρ μέγα βοᾷ καὶ τὸν δοῦλον ἐκ τοῦ οἴκου καλεῖ

Ariphr. and Klewlis > τί ποιεῖτε, ῶ πίλοι; τίς σιγᾶτε;
Bruna Τί ποιεῖτε, ὦ φίλοι; Διὰ τί σιγᾶτε; I do not think τίς can be used as why?

Ariphr. and Klewlis οὕτω ἀνδρεῖός ἐστιν ὁ παῖς ὥστε μέγα τιμῶμεν αὐτόν
Bruna Οὕτωςανδρεῖός ἐστιν ὁ νεανίας ὥστε αὐτὸν μέγα τιμῶμεν

Ariphr. and Klewlis μὴ οὕτω χαλεπὸς ἴσθι, ὦ πάππε: οὐ γὰρ αἰτίος εἰμὶ εγώ.
Bruna Μὴ οὕτω χαλεπὸς ἴσθι, ὦ πάππε• ἐγὼ γὰρ οὐκ αἴτιός εἰμι
the accent is αἴτιος, as for the word order in the second part, I would say both yours and mine are possible. Let's see if anybody else comments.
:D
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by brunapogliano » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:48 pm

jaihare wrote:Sunday came and went. Is anyone going to open up a thread for lesson 6α? Are we ready to move forward?
sorry, I am not. Anyway, I do not want to stop or delay anybody's work. I will contribute at my own pace.
:)
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:03 pm

brunapogliano wrote:Ariphr. and Klewlis > τί ποιεῖτε, ῶ πίλοι; τίς σιγᾶτε;
Bruna Τί ποιεῖτε, ὦ φίλοι; Διὰ τί σιγᾶτε; I do not think τίς can be used as why?
Yeah, the meaning of "why" needs to be in the neuter. Either τί; or διὰ τί; is appropriate. Notice also that they've written *ῶ πίλοι instead of ὦ φίλοι.

FYI: In Hebrew, there are two words for "why?" We have both מדוע mah-DOO-ah and למה LAH-mah. Thus, both of the following sentences are good:

?למה אתה צוחק - LAH-mah ah-TAH tsoh-CHEK
?מדוע אתה צוחק - mah-DOO-ah ah-TAH tsoh-CHEK

When laughing at someone, the word that you add is על ahl. So, to ask what are you laughing at?, the right way is to say the following:

?על מה אתה צוחק - ahl mah ah-TAH tsoh-CHEK

People have begun leaving off the word ahl from this latter sentence. If you laugh at someone because something happened and they want to tell you to stop laughing, you will often hear in Israel:

!?מה אתה צוחק - mah ah-TAH tsoh-CHEK

This reminds me of the use of τί; on its on as the word for "why?" It was always weird to me to find that it is used in such an ambiguous way in Greek writings. I still prefer to use διὰ τί; instead.
Last edited by jaihare on Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:04 pm

brunapogliano wrote:
jaihare wrote:Sunday came and went. Is anyone going to open up a thread for lesson 6α? Are we ready to move forward?
sorry, I am not. Anyway, I do not want to stop or delay anybody's work. I will contribute at my own pace.
:)
:lol:

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by klewlis » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:14 pm

jaihare wrote:Sunday came and went. Is anyone going to open up a thread for lesson 6α? Are we ready to move forward?
no, 5 only had one week and you want two weeks per chapter. The 5B exercises are already posted. One more week for people to work on it before moving on.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by klewlis » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:16 pm

jaihare wrote:
brunapogliano wrote:Ariphr. and Klewlis > τί ποιεῖτε, ῶ πίλοι; τίς σιγᾶτε;
Bruna Τί ποιεῖτε, ὦ φίλοι; Διὰ τί σιγᾶτε; I do not think τίς can be used as why?
Yeah, the meaning of "why" needs to be in the neuter. Either τί; or διὰ τί; is appropriate. Notice also that they've written *ῶ πίλοι instead of ὦ φίλοι.
not "they", not my typo. :P (and it's just a typo so no need to criticize it)

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:17 pm

klewlis wrote:
jaihare wrote:Sunday came and went. Is anyone going to open up a thread for lesson 6α? Are we ready to move forward?
no, 5 only had one week and you want two weeks per chapter. The 5B exercises are already posted. One more week for people to work on it before moving on.
:thumbs up:

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by klewlis » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:17 pm

brunapogliano wrote:
jaihare wrote:
klewlis wrote:And φίλει is also 3rd sg pres ind act :)
Not really. It's φιλεῖ (φιλέ-ει → φιλεῖ). The imperative is φίλει (φίλε-ε → φίλει). The accent is important in this case.

οἰκεῖ is indicative (οἰκέ-ει → οἰκεῖ)
οἴκει is imperative (οἴκε-ε → οἴκει)

In the indicative, the long ending (-ει) draws the accent from the antepenult to the penult. It then contracts, and the accent stays where it was (which has now become the ultima). In the imperative, the short ending (-ε) does not draw the accent away from the antepenult. It remains on the previous syllable when the contraction occurs.

Regards,
Jason
interesting enough, we get to the same conclusion but I would give a different reason for the accent. this is what I learned: in the indicative the accent is on οἰκέ-ει, but when contraction occurs, if the first vowel to be contracted is accented, then the result is a circumflex on the contracted Group, if the second is accented, then the result is an acute on the contracted Group, if neither is accented, the resulting contracted Group is not accented either.
So, as I know, the present is οἰκεῖ because the first vowel had the accent, before contraction.
Whereas, recessive accentuation in the imperative moves the accent before contraction takes place, thus we have no accented vowel to contract, resulting in unaccented contracted Group.
Does this make any sense to you?
either way it's strange because I did double check it on the perseus parser and it gave me the indicative, so maybe the parser is inaccurate or something else is going on.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by Paul Derouda » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:22 pm

klewlis wrote:either way it's strange because I did double check it on the perseus parser and it gave me the indicative, so maybe the parser is inaccurate or something else is going on.
NEVER trust the Perseus parser. Especially on matters of accentuation!

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:23 pm

klewlis wrote:
jaihare wrote:
brunapogliano wrote:Ariphr. and Klewlis > τί ποιεῖτε, ῶ πίλοι; τίς σιγᾶτε;
Bruna Τί ποιεῖτε, ὦ φίλοι; Διὰ τί σιγᾶτε; I do not think τίς can be used as why?
Yeah, the meaning of "why" needs to be in the neuter. Either τί; or διὰ τί; is appropriate. Notice also that they've written *ῶ πίλοι instead of ὦ φίλοι.
not "they", not my typo. :P
No problem. Didn't really go up and look to see who wrote what.
klewlis wrote:(and it's just a typo so no need to criticize it)
I used to tell my teachers that, too. ;)

You're actually right regarding second-language acquisition. Error correction really doesn't help when it comes to forms. The only error correction that aids the acquisition of a new language is that which has to do with concepts and truth values (perhaps lexis, too). Correcting forms is useless.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by brunapogliano » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:55 pm

jaihare wrote: You're actually right regarding second-language acquisition. Error correction really doesn't help when it comes to forms. The only error correction that aids the acquisition of a new language is that which has to do with concepts and truth values (perhaps lexis, too). Correcting forms is useless.
just kidding hopefully :shock:
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:13 pm

brunapogliano wrote:
jaihare wrote: You're actually right regarding second-language acquisition. Error correction really doesn't help when it comes to forms. The only error correction that aids the acquisition of a new language is that which has to do with concepts and truth values (perhaps lexis, too). Correcting forms is useless.
just kidding hopefully :shock:
Stephen Krashen Principles and Practice in Second-Language Acquisition 1982. Accessed online at http://www.sdkrashen.com/content/books/ ... actice.pdf today. Page 11 of the PDF file.
Error correction has little or no effect on subconscious acquisition, but is thought to be useful for conscious learning. Error correction supposedly helps the learner to induce or "figure out" the right form of a rule. If, for example, a student of English as a second language says "I goes to school every day", and the teacher corrects him or her by repeating the utterance correctly, the learner is supposed to realize that the /s/ ending goes with the third person and not the first person, and alter his or her conscious mental representation of the rule. This appears reasonable, but it is not clear whether error correction has this impact in actual practice (Fanselow, 1977; Long, 1977).

Evidence from child language acquisition confirms that error correction does not influence acquisition to any great extent. Brown and his colleagues have shown that parents actually correct only a small portion of the child's language (occasional pronunciation problems, certain verbs, and dirty words!). They conclude from their research that parents attend far more to the truth value of what the child is saying rather than to the form. For example, Brown, Cazden, and Bellugi (1973) report that a sentence such as:

Her curl my hair

"was approved, because the mother was, in fact, curling Eve's hair" (p. 330). On the other hand, Walt Disney comes on on Tuesday was corrected, despite its syntactic correctness, since Walt Disney actually came on television on Wednesday. Brown et al. conclude that it seems to be "truth value rather than syntactic well-formedness that chiefly governs explicit verbal reinforcement by parents--which renders mildly paradoxical the fact that the usual product of such a training schedule is an adult whose speech is highly grammatical but not notably truthful" (p. 330).
Perhaps I overstated when I said that correction of this sort is "useless" (Krashen says that: "This is not to say that error correction is totally useless and that learning is of no value. Learning has a role to play, and error correction may be of use in certain situations." [ibid. pg. 62]), but it certainly isn't as important or as useful as people like to think. It may be counter-intuitive, but it's true. It may also be how we learned languages in the past (I have learned American Sign Language, Spanish and Greek, but I acquired Hebrew as a real spoken fluent language at the age of 27), but learning and acquisition are two different animals, and only the latter is really what we should be aiming for.

In language acquisition, error correction is little more than useless.
Error correction is, unfortunately, the profession's typical reaction to error, and in my view it has been a serious mistake. (pg. 74)
According to the second language acquisition theory presented here, when error correction "works", it does so by helping the learner change his or her conscious mental representation of a rule. In other words, it affects learned competence by informing the learner that his or her current version of a conscious rule is wrong. Thus, second language acquisition theory implies that when the goal is learning, errors should indeed be corrected (but not at all times; see below; and not all rules, even if the goal is learning). The theory maintains however, that error correction is not of use for acquisition. Acquisition occurs, according to the input hypothesis, when acquirers understand input for its meaning, not when they produce output and focus on form.
Learning should, in my opinion, be centered on meta-language discussions, in which we correct issues of grammar and usage (syntax). Error correction should not be engaged when students are speaking or writing (translating into?) the language. We should, however, provide clear comprehensible input so that that they can absorb the correct forms and structures - and do what we can to contrast this with what they wrote/said.

Why would I joke about such a thing?

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by brunapogliano » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:05 pm

wow! I made it! Here are my last chapter 5 three exercises.

Exercise 5F
1. Come here, child: for our master is calling us
2. What are you doing, slaves? For I am calling you but you do not hear
3. Don't you hear me? Bring me the plough
4. But, master, now we're bringing you the plough
5. Come toward us, child, and tell me what you are suffering (for)
6. I'm looking for my dog, father; it is escaping up along the road and doesn't want to come back
7. Cheer up, child: for I hear it barking. Look for it then.
8. I see it on top of the hill waiting; look, now it is running towards us
9. The wolf is wild and big, but the child takes his knife and strikes it
10. While the grandfather is already present, Philip takes his (grandfather's) knife and kills the wolf

Exercise 5η
1. Grandfather himself orders us to hurry to the sheepfold, for the same wolf is coming down from the hill
2. Call his dog, for it is brave and guards the sheep well
3. Hurry up, children, for the sheep see the wolf itself and are making much noise (are in uproar)
4. The dog is not chasing the wolf, but he himself is escaping: for the wolf is wild and big
5. Now the same dog is chasing the wolf, while the latter is escaping toward the hill

Exercise 5θ
1. Οὐκέτι ὁρῶμεν πολλοὺς λύκους ἐπὶ τοῖς ὄρεσιν, σπανίως δὲ καταβαίνουσιν εἰς τοὺς ἀγρούς
2. Θαυμάζομεν οὖν ὥς ὁ Φίλιππος λύκον ἀπέκτονε
3. Ὁ αὐτὸς παῖς εὖ τὰ πρόβατα φυλάττει, ἀλλὰ οὐκ ἐὰν τὰ ἀληθῆ λέγει
4. Ἐν νῷ οὖν ἔχομεν εἰς τὸ ὄρος σπεύδειν καὶ τὸν νεκρὸν ζητεῖν

:roll:
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by klewlis » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:01 pm

not to mention that everyone's learning goals are different. I'm virtually ignoring the accents and their rules (as you can tell based on the above mistake) because my only purpose here is learning how to read Greek, not how to translate back and forth, or to pick out the finer details or to correct anyone else. In context, the usage would (usually) be more clear than a single word that depends on the accents. :/ I understand the value of the exercise, but I'm not fussed if I get some wrong, and I have zero desire to memorize accent rules.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by brunapogliano » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:03 pm

klewlis wrote:not to mention that everyone's learning goals are different. I'm virtually ignoring the accents and their rules (as you can tell based on the above mistake) because my only purpose here is learning how to read Greek, not how to translate back and forth, or to pick out the finer details or to correct anyone else. In context, the usage would (usually) be more clear than a single word that depends on the accents. :/ I understand the value of the exercise, but I'm not fussed if I get some wrong, and I have zero desire to memorize accent rules.
I'm sorry if in any way I bothered you with my remarks. I thought we were expected to correct and comment on one another's works. I only tried to do my best. Actually, checking and comparing my work with everybody else's took me quite long. Personally I am only too happy when someone corrects my work and points out my flaws. I am interested in Greek, not in argueing with or bothering people. Again, I'm sorry if I annoyed you. I won't do it any more. :?:
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:05 pm

brunapogliano wrote:
klewlis wrote:not to mention that everyone's learning goals are different. I'm virtually ignoring the accents and their rules (as you can tell based on the above mistake) because my only purpose here is learning how to read Greek, not how to translate back and forth, or to pick out the finer details or to correct anyone else. In context, the usage would (usually) be more clear than a single word that depends on the accents. :/ I understand the value of the exercise, but I'm not fussed if I get some wrong, and I have zero desire to memorize accent rules.
I'm sorry if in any way I bothered you with my remarks. I thought we were expected to correct and comment on one another's works. I only tried to do my best. Actually, checking and comparing my work with everybody else's took me quite long. Personally I am only too happy when someone corrects my work and points out my flaws. I am interested in Greek, not in argueing with or bothering people. Again, I'm sorry if I annoyed you. I won't do it any more. :?:
I hope no one feels bad about bothering me in any way. I thrive when we are rough with each other and take each other to task. :) I'm all about you pointing out my crap and holding me to the grindstone. If I make mistakes, I want to know.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by klewlis » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:50 am

brunapogliano wrote:
klewlis wrote:not to mention that everyone's learning goals are different. I'm virtually ignoring the accents and their rules (as you can tell based on the above mistake) because my only purpose here is learning how to read Greek, not how to translate back and forth, or to pick out the finer details or to correct anyone else. In context, the usage would (usually) be more clear than a single word that depends on the accents. :/ I understand the value of the exercise, but I'm not fussed if I get some wrong, and I have zero desire to memorize accent rules.
I'm sorry if in any way I bothered you with my remarks. I thought we were expected to correct and comment on one another's works. I only tried to do my best. Actually, checking and comparing my work with everybody else's took me quite long. Personally I am only too happy when someone corrects my work and points out my flaws. I am interested in Greek, not in argueing with or bothering people. Again, I'm sorry if I annoyed you. I won't do it any more. :?:
no you didn't bother me at all! Absolutely it's good to work through all this stuff, which is of course part of the point of having a study group together. All I meant was that I personally am not concerned about perfection. We all learn from the discussion that ensues, so keep commenting. :)

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:12 am

klewlis wrote:no you didn't bother me at all! Absolutely it's good to work through all this stuff, which is of course part of the point of having a study group together. All I meant was that I personally am not concerned about perfection. We all learn from the discussion that ensues, so keep commenting. :)
Can I assume that this applies to more posters on this forum than just this one and that you will no longer take criticisms or requests for redirection or clarification on my part as a personal attack - as you seem to do? Can I offer anything on this forum without causing you personal offense? I'm just wondering, since you seem to have made yourself my enemy for whatever reason. I guess what I'm asking is that we come to some sort of agreement to wipe the slate clean and start again.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by CanadianGirl » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:56 pm

Well, I finally got the keyboard on my screen, so I should be able to catch up-still having trouble with accents etc. but I suppose that will come with practice.
phpbb

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:08 am

CanadianGirl wrote:Well, I finally got the keyboard on my screen, so I should be able to catch up-still having trouble with accents etc. but I suppose that will come with practice.
Welcome back! I've put together a placement explanation for the accents, if you're interested in it. I hope it can help you find all the accent placements and get back into the group study! :)

Welcome back to it.

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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by CanadianGirl » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:15 pm

Well, here is my unaccented, un- breathing marked first two lesson 5 exercises-not much but it's a start. I will try to get the rest of 5 posted this week, then stay with the group (I hope). Thanks for the help, Jason. My problem is time, basically-not much to do about that.

Athenaze Lesson 5:
Exercise 5b
1. Τιματε
2. φιλει
3. ὁρω
4. ο'ικεισ
5. ποιω
6. βοωει
7. 'ορασ
8. πονει

Exercise 5γ
1. τιμωσι
2. φιλετε
3. ζντουμεν
4. ορωμεν
5. βοατε
6. οικουσι
7. φιλουσι
8. τιματε
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jaihare
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Fri Sep 19, 2014 5:22 pm

CanadianGirl wrote:Well, here is my unaccented, un- breathing marked first two lesson 5 exercises-not much but it's a start. I will try to get the rest of 5 posted this week, then stay with the group (I hope). Thanks for the help, Jason. My problem is time, basically-not much to do about that.

Athenaze Lesson 5:
Exercise 5b
1. Τιματε
2. φιλει
3. ὁρω
4. ο'ικεισ
5. ποιω
6. βοωει
7. 'ορασ
8. πονει

Exercise 5γ
1. τιμωσι
2. φιλετε
3. ζντουμεν
4. ορωμεν
5. βοατε
6. οικουσι
7. φιλουσι
8. τιματε
Progress! It's nice to see Greek on your post! :)

Take a look at the page I sent you regarding diacritics with the polytonic keyboard, OK? It's the opposite of the legacy fonts that you're used to. For the legacy fonts, you type the letter and then the accent. So, ἀ is typed by first typing a (for alpha) and then by typing ) on the keyboard. In Unicode, this is reserved. First we type the accent (in this case, the ' key) and then we type the letter (in the case, a). Thus, we '+a = ἀ (when we are using the polytonic Greek keyboard).

Notice also that the final σ is found on the w key. Thus, φιλεισ > φιλεις - and with accent, φιλεῖς. :)

Best of luck!

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brunapogliano
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by brunapogliano » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:52 pm

just one question,
jaihare wrote:[Exercise 5θ
3. ὁ αὐτὸς παῖς εὖ φυλάττει τὰ πρόβατα, οὐ δ᾿ ἀεὶ τὰ ἀληθῆ λέγει.
mine reads: 3. Ὁ αὐτὸς παῖς εὖ τὰ πρόβατα φυλάττει, ἀλλὰ οὐκ ἐὰν τὰ ἀληθῆ λέγει

is there any difference? Though I prefer your οὐ δ᾿, is my translation acceptable? Error-free?
thank you
bruna pogliano
rhiannon05@alice.it

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jaihare
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Re: Athenaze Study Group - Lesson 5

Post by jaihare » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:17 am

brunapogliano wrote:just one question,
jaihare wrote:[Exercise 5θ
3. ὁ αὐτὸς παῖς εὖ φυλάττει τὰ πρόβατα, οὐ δ᾿ ἀεὶ τὰ ἀληθῆ λέγει.
mine reads: 3. Ὁ αὐτὸς παῖς εὖ τὰ πρόβατα φυλάττει, ἀλλὰ οὐκ ἐὰν τὰ ἀληθῆ λέγει

is there any difference? Though I prefer your οὐ δ᾿, is my translation acceptable? Error-free?
thank you
It looks fantastic. :)
Of course, the second α in ἀλλά would elide here, too. It would naturally occur as ἀλλ᾿ οὐκ... And instead of ἐάν ("if" εἰ + ἄν), I am sure you meant to write ἀεί ("always").

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