Ancient Greek pronunciation

[ClassicsNerd]

http://leserables.tripod.com/audiofiles.html

Is the pronunciation on that site good/accurate?

[Hu]

What a weird pronunciation. He seems to be using the pitch accent as well as a stress accent, and mostly reconstructed pronunciation (except for φ, θ, χ). He sounds Greek.

As to the accuracy, he mixes pronunciations from later time periods (e.g., the stress accent and fricative values for φ, θ, χ) with the reconstructed pronunciation (he pronounces οικεῖ /oikei/* and not /iki/). I have no clue why. He also doesn't pronounce the iota subscript, which was pronounced in classical times. And then there's that wretched glottal stop in "? άνθ?ωπος".

*Technically ει is a long εε in Classical Greek and not ει (a so-called "spurious diphthong").

[ClassicsNerd]

hmm, thanks for the input.

What about this pronunciation from an imitation Cornell?

http://www.cornellcollege.edu/Classical ... s/ch1.html

[bellum paxque]

Hu, I take it that you've had some Greek university courses. Do professors tend to use the reconstructed pronuncation including the pitch accent? Or with a stress accent?

I've just started learning Greek, and I'm trying to decide what details of pronunciation I should adopt in order to be prepared for the classics courses I intend to take next year.

Regards,

David

[Hu]

Hu, I take it that you've had some Greek university courses. Do professors tend to use the reconstructed pronuncation including the pitch accent? Or with a stress accent?

Nope; the extent of my association with university Classics is Intermediate Latin (for a language requirement) and Latin lyric poetry. As you can no doubt tell, I'm quite sensitive to pronunciation, and most university professors still carry on with the horrendous practice of not making any effort to represent Greek or Latin as sounding distinct from English (e.g., pronouncing the "tr" in "castra" like in English).

As for pronunciation, I recommend these books:
Vox Graeca by W. Sidney Allen
The Pronunciation of Greek and Latin by Edgar H. Sturtevant
The Greek Language by Leonard R. Palmer

(There's also "Vox Latina" by Allen and "The Latin Language" by Palmer if you're interested)

[Hu]

hmm, thanks for the input.

What about this pronunciation from an imitation Cornell?

http://www.cornellcollege.edu/Classical ... s/ch1.html

Eta is pronounced like a long e in bet, not like in they. He gets theta and phi right, but, for some strange reason, pronounces chi [x] and not as an aspirated [k]; also an unhistorical detail.

It's mostly the same careless application of English sounds that I described above.

As far as accent, he seems to stress the accented syllable and makes no effort at the pitch accent.

[bellum paxque]

Nope; the extent of my association with university Classics is Intermediate Latin (for a language requirement) and Latin lyric poetry. As you can no doubt tell, I'm quite sensitive to pronunciation, and most university professors still carry on with the horrendous practice of not making any effort to represent Greek or Latin as sounding distinct from English (e.g., pronouncing the "tr" in "castra" like in English).

Interestingly, I've been corresponding with a Greek professor with whom I may be taking classes next year. A couple days ago I asked him for his opinion on the pronunciation of Greek. He says that, though he is aware of, for instance, the trilled rho, the aspirated phi, chi, and theta, and the pitch accent, he renders them all in the traditional, unreconstructed manner-English r, fricative phi, chi, and theta, and stress accent. His argument goes as follows: 1) he doesn't trust himself to be able to distinguish, for instance, aspirated from unaspirated consonants and 2) he doesn't think the time necessary to learn, for instance, the pitch accent, is worth taking from other, more important issues.

I think I'll be taking his advice for now, at least while learning. But later...

-David

[Hu]

He says that, though he is aware of, for instance, the trilled rho, the aspirated phi, chi, and theta, and the pitch accent, he renders them all in the traditional, unreconstructed manner-English r, fricative phi, chi, and theta, and stress accent.

I've also found thar professors are often aware of pronunciation details (and even mention them in passing) but don't use them. *sigh*

His argument goes as follows: 1) he doesn't trust himself to be able to distinguish, for instance, aspirated from unaspirated consonants

It isn't that hard; I heard someone pronounce "πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν" in the normal manner recently and could hear the aspiration quite easily.

and 2) he doesn't think the time necessary to learn, for instance, the pitch accent, is worth taking from other, more important issues.

Not worth the time? But without the pitch accent it isn't even ancient Greek! It's completely slanderous to everything Greek was to knowingly mangle it in that fashion.

I think I'll be taking his advice for now, at least while learning. But later...

I'd be glad to help you on Skype if you want it.

[bellum paxque]

Not worth the time? But without the pitch accent it isn't even ancient Greek! It's completely slanderous to everything Greek was to knowingly mangle it in that fashion.

Admittedly, I don't know much about the pitch accent. Granting that, I still think it's a bit strong to say "it isnt even ancient Greek" without the pitch accent. After all, we don't really know what the pitches sounded like, do we? And also, the pitches aren't really as significant as in, for instance, tonal languages like Mandarin Chinese. Rather, they signal the intonation contours of the sentence (rather as English has its own intonation contours). Imagine English without accent - the way French speak it. Mangled? Perhaps. English? Unquestionably.

However, I'm planning to read more about it soon.

Quote:
I think I'll be taking his advice for now, at least while learning. But later...

I'd be glad to help you on Skype if you want it.

I appreciate the offer for help, Hu. Once I get a little more proficiency in Greek, I may take you up on it. I'm still working on the fundamentals, though... you know, I just started studying it two weeks ago.

Regards,

David