Herodot, Histories book 3

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Emma_85
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Herodot, Histories book 3

Post by Emma_85 » Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:24 pm

κῶς δ’ ἂν εἴη χρῆμα κατηρτημένον μουναρχίη,
τῇ ἔξεστι ἀνευθύνῳ ποίεειν τὰ βούλεται;

I just have no idea how to translate the second part of the sentence, even though I know what it means. :-(
One of Dareios helpers is just going on about how monarchy sucks and how much better democracy is.
The first part of the sentence is (I hope):

In which way could monarchy be a well-fitting need, ...?

Now for the second part... I just don't know what to do with that at all. The relative clause is my problem...

τὰ βούλεται; - the things that she (the monarchy) wants, my commentary says that the subject is μουναρχίη .
but the rest :? ...
I think that ἔξεστι ποίεειν τὰ βούλεται; is probably an ACI, 'it is necessary that the things that she wants are done'
But I don't know how this fits in with the relative pronoun at all, especially as it's in the dative.
( ἀνευθύνῳ means irresponsible)

I'm totally at a loss here :?
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Adelheid
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Post by Adelheid » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:14 pm

[size=150]τῇ ἔξεστι ἀνευθύνῳ ποίεειν τὰ βούλεται;[/size]


Just my thoughts:

I think[size=150] τῇ[/size] refers to monarchy, [size=150]ἀνευθύνῳ[/size] is a dativus connected to the verb [size=150]ἔξεστι[/size] and the rest is just "to do , that what he wants".

I would translate:

with which (the monarchy) it is permitted to an irresponsible person to do what he wants.

But I would then ignore your commentary stating that the monarchy is the subject of [size=150]βούλεται[/size].

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Adelheid

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Post by Emma_85 » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:39 pm

Hehehe, if only it weren't for the commentary... well, maybe there's a mistake in the commentary but then... hehehe, it's a very confusing commentary, maybe I misread it too, I'm notorious for not understand the commentary 8) .
Hmm... plus I just noticed that the ACI wouldn't work the way i thought it would, as then the infinitive would have to be passive. :oops:

Thanks Adelheid, now I understand the sentence... :D
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Skylax
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Re: Herodot, Histories book 3

Post by Skylax » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:50 pm

Emma_85 wrote: κῶς δ’ ἂν εἴη χρῆμα κατηρτημένον μουναρχίη,
τῇ ἔξεστι ἀνευθύνῳ ποίεειν τὰ βούλεται;
I would agree with the commentary. In my mind, ἀνευθύνῳ agrees with τῇ in the feminine (for feminine of ἀνεύθυνος is the same as the masculine), so : "how could monarchy be a well-fitting thing, for which it is permitted to do what it wants without being responsible for anything?" Herodotus means that being "uncontrolled", a monarch comes rapidly "out of control", "mad".

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Adelheid
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Post by Adelheid » Mon Dec 06, 2004 12:57 pm

for feminine of [size=84]ἀνεύθυνος[/size] is the same as the masculine
Checked my grammar and indeed.


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Adelheid

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Emma_85
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Post by Emma_85 » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:20 pm

Seems like both is possible grammatically, so I'll just write down both versions :wink: .
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