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Eureka
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uden allo... e

Post by Eureka » Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:39 am

On pages 18 and 19 of Thrasymachus there are a couple of sentences with οὐδὲν ἄλλο followed by η2 later in the sentence.

I think οὐδὲν ἄλλο means "no-one else", but I can't see how η2 fits in. It seems to be a non-literal expression. :?

Here are the quotes: (Both from Aphrodite.)

ἁμαρτάνετε, ὦ φίλαι· οὐδὲν γὰρ ἄλλο ἢ φιλεῖ τὰς γυναῖκας, ὡ/σπερ οἱ ἄλλοι ἄνδρες. ἀλλ 0οὐδὲν ἄλλο λέγω ἢ περὶ τῶν ἀνθρώπων.

My translations:

"You are making a mistake, friends; because no-one else likes women, like the other men."

"But I talk to no-one about humanity."

I'm sure my translations are wrong, because the first one makes very little sense, and the second seems like a very random statement. (This is supposed to be at the judgment of Paris.)

Can someone please shed some light on this, because it's all Greek to me?
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Paul
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Post by Paul » Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:55 am

Hi,

See Smyth 2777-2779, especially 2778 where οὐδεν ἄλλο ἤ is said to mean 'nothing else than'.

Cordially,

Paul

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Post by Eureka » Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:26 am

Ahhh, thanks Paul.

I understand, now.

"He likes nothing else than women, like other men"

"But I'm talking about nothing but people."

Now she makes sense. :)
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Post by Eureka » Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:56 am

As a side note, I just found the definition of as "than" in Thrasymachus. It's in the English to Greek vocab but not in the Greek to English. For a book first pubished four decades ago, it has a fair few errors. (It's an excellent book, though.)

BTW, does anyone else's copy of the book have a few wayward kappas? (i.e. [size=150]κἀγαθός[/size] instead of [size=150]ἀγαθός[/size]) :)
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Post by Koala » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:11 am

yes, my Thrasymachus has [size=150]κ’ἀγαθός[/size] too - but I've always taken it
as a contraction of [size=150]καὶ ἀγαθός[/size] -
? is this correct[face=Arial][/face]

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Post by mingshey » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:28 am

Koala wrote:yes, my Thrasymachus has [size=150]κ’ἀγαθός[/size] too - but I've always taken it
as a contraction of [size=150]καὶ ἀγαθός[/size] -
? is this correct[face=Arial][/face]
Yeah, I think so. As far as I can recall.

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Post by Eureka » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:59 am

mingshey wrote:
Koala wrote:yes, my Thrasymachus has [size=150]κ’ἀγαθός[/size] too - but I've always taken it
as a contraction of [size=150]καὶ ἀγαθός[/size] -
? is this correct[face=Arial][/face]
Yeah, I think so. As far as I can recall.
Oh, I didn't think even a contracted word could have a breathing mark on a non-initial vowel. :?

(BTW, mine doesn't say [size=150]κ’ἀγαθός[/size], it says [size=150]κἀγαθός[/size].)
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Post by Emma_85 » Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:37 am

Oh, I didn't think even a contracted word could have a breathing mark on a non-initial vowel.
They do still retain their breathing marks, though, so you can tell if they are contracted or not.

They must have just forgotten the though :roll: .
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Post by Eureka » Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:18 am

Emma_85 wrote:They do still retain their breathing marks, though, so you can tell if they are contracted or not.
Is this common, or does it just happen with ἀγαθός?
Emma_85 wrote:They must have just forgotten the though :roll: .
Since the book has been reprinted, you'd think they could've fixed it.
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Post by annis » Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:26 pm

Emma_85 wrote:
Oh, I didn't think even a contracted word could have a breathing mark on a non-initial vowel.
They do still retain their breathing marks, though, so you can tell if they are contracted or not.
Technically that's not a breathing mark, but a sign of crasis. Of course, it looks like a breathing mark. But if you have crasis in καὶ ὁ you write χὠ, not χὡ.
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Post by Emma_85 » Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:17 pm

Technically that's not a breathing mark, but a sign of crasis. Of course, it looks like a breathing mark. But if you have crasis in kai\ o( you write xw), not xw(.
Ahh... thanks, I thought the contraction with an aspirated word itself was called krasis, hehehe seems a bit stupid now that I think about it :roll: .

Well you can have krasis with other words too, such as:
τἀ=λλα < τὰ ἄλλα
or (a more annoying contraction)
τοὐναντίον < τὸ ἐναντίον

All you need to remember is that if you find a word with a krasis you'll have to work out which word it originally came from.
τοὐναντίον
The krasis tells you it's a contraction, and ou is often a contraction product of e + o, o + e, o + ou, o + o; Hehehe, then all you have to do is see what makes sense and what doesn't.
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Post by nefercheprure » Thu Jul 15, 2004 4:28 pm

Emma_85 wrote: Well you can have krasis with other words too, such as:
τἀ=λλα < τὰ ἄλλα
or (a more annoying contraction)
τοὐναντίον < τὸ ἐναντίον
τἀληθῆ λέγεις... = τὰ ἀληθῆ λέγεις...
... Thrasymachos XVI οἴκοι second paragraph

κἀγώ ... καὶ ἐγώ
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