A word from Aristotle

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medea
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A word from Aristotle

Post by medea » Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:46 pm

ἧχθαι

I've no idea whether this word means "lead" or "begin"~~~~
and would u please tell me the accidence of it~~~~~

Thanx a lot

nefercheprure
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Re: A word from Aristotle

Post by nefercheprure » Thu Jun 17, 2004 3:41 pm

medea wrote:ἧχθαι

I've no idea whether this word means "lead" or "begin"~~~~
and would u please tell me the accidence of it~~~~~

Thanx a lot
Did you mean
ἦχθαι ?
it is impossible for a word to start with a rough breathing and a vovel immediately followed by an aspirated consonant. (A rule of no known exceptions, hence very useful.)

if it be so, it seems to be derived from ἄγω
as a perfect middle/passive infinitive

Which of the possible meanings of ἄγω can however be perhaps only told from the surrounding context.

Can you quote the full sentence for us?
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Paul
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Post by Paul » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:04 pm

Hi medea,

See http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/mo ... x?lookup=h)=xqai&lang=greek
nefercheprure wrote:it is impossible for a word to start with a rough breathing and a vowel immediately followed by an aspirated consonant. (A rule of no known exceptions, hence very useful.)
Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but what of:

ἑφθός
ἥφθη
ἧχι

Not to mention the name Hephaestus?

Cordially,

Paul

Miltiades
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Post by Miltiades » Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:23 pm

can u tell us where exactly in Aristotle this word resides? It's very weird...
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Post by mingshey » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:07 am

Searched perseus for it, though I'm not sure medea has meant this line :). Anyways, wonderful perseus (thumbs up)!

διὸ δεῖ ἦχθαί πως εὐθὺς ἐκ νέων, ὡς ὁ πλάτων φησίν, ὥστε χαίρειν τε καὶ λυπεῖσθαι οἷς δεῖ·

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/pt ... e%3D%23156

see line 10, please.

medea
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apologize for replying late

Post by medea » Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:53 am

apologize for replying late

here
Aristotle,Nicomachean Ethics,1095b1,(1),line4.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/pt ... =1095a%201

You can find out my quoted passage here.And I want to kown not only what does it mean,but also the transform of it and what kind of the termination .............would u please help me analyze it??
Thanx a lot.......

Democritus
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Re: apologize for replying late

Post by Democritus » Sat Jun 19, 2004 8:36 pm

medea wrote:And I want to kown not only what does it mean,but also the transform of it and what kind of the termination .............would u please help me analyze it??
Hello medea,

That link that Paul posted points to a page which contains what you are looking for:

[size=150][b]ἦχθαι[/b][/size] - perf inf mid/pass

That's what you were looking for, isn't it: Pefect Infinitive, Middle/Passive. The fifth principle part of [size=150][b]ἄγω[/b][/size] is [size=150][b]ἦγμαι[/b][/size].

Note that in the perfect tense, the [size=150][b]α[/b][/size] becomes [size=150][b]η[/b][/size] because of reduplication, not because of augment. Augment is only used in historic indicative tenses (impefect, aorist) but reduplication is present in all moods of the perfect tense, including the infinitive. What's confusing is that, if the verb stem starts with a vowel, reduplication looks identical to augment. So it looks like the infinitive is augmented, but infinitive is not augmented, it's reduplicated. Also, [size=150][b]γ[/b][/size] becomes [size=150][b]χ[/b][/size] because of the aspirated consonant [size=150][b]θ[/b][/size].

[size=150][b]ἤγαγον[/b][/size] (1st sing aor ind act) -> [size=150][b]ἀγαγεῖν[/b][/size] (aor inf act)
[size=150][b]ἤχα[/b][/size] (1st sing perf ind act) -> [size=150][b]ἠχέναι[/b][/size] (perf inf act)
[size=150][b]ἦγμαι[/b][/size] (1st sing perf ind mid/pass) -> [size=150][b]ἦχθαι[/b][/size] (perf inf mid/pass)

medea
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Post by medea » Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:57 am

so great :lol:

thank u Democritus.

Which greek text are u reading now?
Are u interested in Aristotle?

nefercheprure
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Post by nefercheprure » Thu Jul 08, 2004 4:40 pm

Paul wrote: ...
nefercheprure wrote:it is impossible for a word to start with a rough breathing and a vowel immediately followed by an aspirated consonant. (A rule of no known exceptions, hence very useful.)
Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but what of:

ἑφθός
ἥφθη
ἧχι

Not to mention the name Hephaestus?
...
This rule works well for ἔχω (< *(εχ‐ω < *σεχ‐ω) fut. ἕξω

As for ἑφθός:
the word ἀπεφθός
suggests that there is spiritus lenis. On the other hand LSJ explicitly mentions: ``by dissimilation for ἄφεφθος.''

The byzantinian codices should be consulted (as the oldest authority). And even then the result might be inconclusive. A positive evidence would be written spirutus asper. An even stronger evidence would be change of τ > θ, π > φ, and κ > χ in preceding preposition or οὐκ
A negative evidence would be the negation of those two.

As for ἧχι:
it is an epic form. I am not sure whether the rule applies to epic as well.

Names could be a special case.

And of course I might err. Or LSJ might err. (look for ἰχθύς and ιχθῦς in LSJ (big) and LS (middle), only one form is deemed correct)


I did not know those exceptions.

LSJ = Liddell Scott Jones
LS = Liddell Scott
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