BLD: §145 The Dative with Adjectives

Are you learning Latin with D'Ooge's Beginners Latin Book? Here's where you can meet other learners using this textbook. Use this board to ask questions and post your work for feedback and comments from others.
Post Reply
User avatar
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 374
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:16 pm
Location: Baltimore

BLD: §145 The Dative with Adjectives

Post by Timothy » Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:17 pm

I'm having a problem with 3:

"Diana will destroy those hostile to latona."
Key: Diana inimicos Latonae delebit.
Tim: Diana eos inimicae Latonae delebit.

When I first checked this I was surprised at how far I was from the key. When this happens I usually spend some time reviewing the material until I have a full explaination. But in this case I am having a cascade of questions and I'm getting a bit boloxed up. Here's my anaylsis and I hope someone can point out where I go wrong.

Divide and conquer

Break the sentence into it's basic parts:
"Diana will destroy those."

This closely resembles the sentence for §117.1
"He praises them."
Eos/eas/ea laudat.

The three genders are because the demonstrative pronoun "them" is indefinite and should match a antecedent noun to which it refers. Since we have no context here, all three are possible. Also, an alternate translation of them is those. I also note that all three are in the accusative case. This matches with the first dative example (§44) Nauta fugam nuntiat.

From this I get:
Diana delebit eos/eas/ea.

Adding the "hostile to Latona" is the dative with adjective,
Diana delebit eos/eas/ea inimicae Latonae.

The lesson rule §146 says to use the dative case of the adjective to denote the object to which the quality is directed. That would be Latona, also in the dative as the indirect object (§44). I matched genders as well, although I can't see any reason why I could not match it with the direct object, which in this case is "them." Ugh! Hence I picked the feminine.

I cannot explain the use of the masculine/neuter accusative inimicos. I thought it might be a match to Nauta fugam nuntiat, however, the match fails to me because the direct object here isn't "hostile", but "them". "Them" answers the question Who?

I also cannot explain the dropped "them" since we do have the demonstratives.

Again, it was because my answer was so far from the key (in some of the other questions as well) that I began to doubt whether I understood the lesson.

- Tim

Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:29 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post by ingrid70 » Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:23 pm

Hi Tim,

Adjectives can be used as substantives sometimes, esp. in the neuter plural (e.g. amor vincit omnia: love conquers all) and masculine plural: boni: good men. That's why the determinative is left out here.

But even if it is left in, hostile belongs to those: those hostile as a whole is the object of destroy.

Who will Diana destroy? Those. Those who are hostile. Those = hostile.

Ergo, hostile should be in the same case as those: eos inimicos.

To whom are those (people) hostile? To Latona. eos inimicos Latonae

Hope this helps.


User avatar
Textkit Enthusiast
Posts: 374
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:16 pm
Location: Baltimore

Post by Timothy » Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:13 pm

Ah! I think I see it now!

If I send Diana on a rampage...

Diana amicos Latonae delebit.

...can be translated as,
"Diana will destroy (those) friendly to Latona."
as well as,
"Diana will destroy the friends of Latona."



"Diana will destroy these friends of the queen but not those friends."
Diana eos amicos reginae sed non eos delebit.

to show a better use of the demonstrative?

My error was the thinking Latonae was a dative as an indirect object rather than the dative to which the hostility was directed.

I take it that the choice of masculine/neuter here is in the absence of a definite gender, but it is equally valid to say,

Diana (eas) inimicas Latonae delebit.

but this would be limiting to hostile females?

And finally,

"Diana will destroy all the children of the queen."
Diana totos liberos reginae delebit.

to distinguish the use of the adjective as the modifier of the object rather than the object itself ("the children") i.e. totos inimicos

I think I have it now.

Thank you.

- Tim

Post Reply