Search found 562 matches

by Timothée
Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:26 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Nōnnulli ex...
Replies: 5
Views: 2491

Re: Nōnnulli ex...

Generally better not use ex with nōnnūllī. E.g. nōnnūllī incolae is much more common.
by Timothée
Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:57 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: 2d pers. pres./fut. indicative medio-pass.: ει or ηι?
Replies: 11
Views: 5245

Re: 2d pers. pres./fut. indicative medio-pass.: ει or ηι?

Thesleff says that the Corpus Platonicum was established probably during the tenure of Xenocrates, i.e. late 4th century. The Corpus would have been kept in the Academic library, and was used in producing copies for the whole of the Greek-speaking world. The Academic authority was immense, and const...
by Timothée
Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:29 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Teaching Latin Well
Replies: 28
Views: 11418

Re: Teaching Latin Well

And yet you started this speculation. The ancient Romans knew Latin much better than the best Latinists today. They were imbued with it all their childhood, adolescence and and adultness, every single day. There arises little reason to assume that an average Roman would have had trouble understandin...
by Timothée
Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:27 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: 2d pers. pres./fut. indicative medio-pass.: ει or ηι?
Replies: 11
Views: 5245

Re: 2d pers. pres./fut. indicative medio-pass.: ει or ηι?

The Dutch word slinks means ‘deceitful’, ‘furtive’, ‘sly’.
by Timothée
Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:53 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Responsion and the iambic trimeter
Replies: 12
Views: 5655

Re: Responsion and the iambic trimeter

I did talk about accents.
by Timothée
Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:54 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Responsion and the iambic trimeter
Replies: 12
Views: 5655

Re: Responsion and the iambic trimeter

There are three accentuation errors in those three lines, which is unfortunate for beginners. Hopefully this is not a larger trend in Morwood. Think of responsion in the way that something responds to something other. In Martin West’s wording: “The metrical agreement between strophes is known as res...
by Timothée
Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:46 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: πολυπειρία
Replies: 2
Views: 1558

Re: πολυπειρία

Undoubtedly so. For instance, Menge has reiche Erfahrung . Did you (first) expect it to mean something like “That was a great experience!” (= it was really nice to have experienced that)? The OED has: Souldiers of great experience should be aduantaged in their payes (1598) The old stagers — — the me...
by Timothée
Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:28 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?
Replies: 29
Views: 15951

Re: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?

What is the go-to text for Quintus? I know there’s the Budé (in three vol’s) from the 1960’s, which would appear to be okay.
by Timothée
Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:21 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Question about I,U Stem Consonant Declension
Replies: 5
Views: 2224

Re: Question about I,U Stem Consonant Declension

Check the gender of each word in the vocabulary list.
by Timothée
Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:18 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: AUDIOBOOK: D'Ooge's 'Colloquia Latina'
Replies: 7
Views: 3360

Re: AUDIOBOOK: D'Ooge's 'Colloquia Latina'

Noch eine kleine Sache: die enklitische Partikel -ve bezeichnet ,oder‘, weshalb sie eventuell hier nicht ganz richtig ist:
WillowW wrote:permultum acceptum gratumve est!
WillowW wrote:Laborem pergratum acceptumve, Metrodore
Sie suchen ohne Zweifel nach dem enklitischen Wort -que ,und‘.
by Timothée
Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:10 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: AUDIOBOOK: D'Ooge's 'Colloquia Latina'
Replies: 7
Views: 3360

Re: AUDIOBOOK: D'Ooge's 'Colloquia Latina'

How best to translate "how people lived"? Possibly something like quomodo viverent veteres vel sim. (there could well be something more idiomatic). Veteres means the ancients, as you probably knew anyway. The cum at the beginning was not meant as a conjunction, but rather as a preposition: "I began...
by Timothée
Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:19 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: AUDIOBOOK: D'Ooge's 'Colloquia Latina'
Replies: 7
Views: 3360

Re: AUDIOBOOK: D'Ooge's 'Colloquia Latina'

Nice to have you on Textkit, Salix! Nett Sie ein bisschen kennenzulernen und Ihre interessante Geschichten zu lesen! A few suggestions (I could be wrong or may well misunderstand something): Cum illis colloquis amoenis coepi , linguam Latinam renovare, antequam Latinum tuum invenisti . This would ap...
by Timothée
Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:07 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?
Replies: 29
Views: 15951

Re: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?

Anthony Appleyard wrote:I seem to remember that the verb root ͑ικ-"go, some, reach" was originally ͑ϝικ-
It was originally *seik-, cognates seen in Lithuanian, Tocharian, and Germanic. But even if it did have a digamma, there’s only so much you can conclude from it.
by Timothée
Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:48 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Caius or Gaius?
Replies: 3
Views: 2317

Re: Caius or Gaius?

Oh dear. :(


A statue of Iulius Caesar was erected in his honour on the Acropolis of Athens—and on the pedestal these words appear:
Ὁ δῆμος [Γ]άιον Ἰούλιον Καίσ[αρα, ἀ]ρχιερέα καὶ δικτά[τορα, τὸν ἑα]υτοῦ σωτῆρα κα[ὶ εὐεργέτην].
Hylander wrote:After his death and apocolocyntosis
:D
by Timothée
Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:16 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Caius or Gaius?
Replies: 3
Views: 2317

Re: Caius or Gaius?

As you probably know, the letter G was a Roman innovation, formed from C with an extra stroke. The distinction c [k] vs. g [g] is important in Latin, which is why they had to make that letter innovation (what had happened so that this had become the prevailing situation is a somewhat longer story, a...
by Timothée
Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:13 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: δ 121 special tmesis case
Replies: 39
Views: 29399

Re: δ 121 special tmesis case

I don't analyze it that way at all. σεωι is pronounced as a single syllable (synizesis) and shortened (corrreption). Greg Nagy does this in his reading. Sorry, you’re right. All these different levels of analyses managed to confuse me. My apologies. But in Nagy’s reading, the syllable/vowel after χ...
by Timothée
Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:55 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: δ 121 special tmesis case
Replies: 39
Views: 29399

Re: δ 121 special tmesis case

Il. 5.539 φίλε κασίγνητε κόμισαί τέ με δός τέ μοι ἵππους West mentions this line in his Greek Metre, and he too thinks that the first syllable φι is lengthened, as well as -τε in the next word. In cases like these, the Homeric metric licence is just about at its biggest. Also the LS mentions φῑλε. T...
by Timothée
Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:02 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: δ 121 special tmesis case
Replies: 39
Views: 29399

Re: δ 121 special tmesis case

That’s a good point and well made, Paul. To paraphrase what was said elsewhere on Textkit: can we not allow Homer to be less than perfect?
by Timothée
Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:35 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: δ 121 special tmesis case
Replies: 39
Views: 29399

Re: δ 121 special tmesis case

I'm as puzzled as Joel here. Isn't there some circularity in this reasoning? I think the argument is that first (in prehistory as mwh puts it) it wasn’t unmetrical, then by the time of Homer (or Melesigenes) it was, and he would have somehow had to make it metrical again, presuming that unmetrical ...
by Timothée
Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:58 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: δ 121 special tmesis case
Replies: 39
Views: 29399

Re: δ 121 special tmesis case

I believe that hiatuses left by the disappearance of digammas and other instances of sandhi (is that the right term, Timothée?) were frequently "fixed" by adding δ' or some other elided particle. Do sandhis need levelling? I’m not sure and would doubt it, but maybe thus was done in any event. Sandh...
by Timothée
Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:38 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: oblique cases ??
Replies: 6
Views: 3061

Re: oblique cases ??

So another turn in the tale. Actually I probably expected this in some half-repressed thoughts. But at least Donatus thinks vocative is a casus rectus (“Duo recti appellantur nominatiuus et uocatiuus, reliqui obliqui”). I read the reference to Anacreon in Schwyzer’s grammar (in both volumes 1¹ and 2...
by Timothée
Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:32 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: oblique cases ??
Replies: 6
Views: 3061

Re: oblique cases ??

It’s probably best not to include vocative amongst oblique cases, although it’s obviously a matter of definition. Already Anacreon mentions the three oblique cases. Donatus says there are two casus recti, the rest being oblique. If vocative isn’t counted amongst cases (which happened not infrequentl...
by Timothée
Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:05 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: An Unusual (well, to me) Latin Script
Replies: 2
Views: 1614

Re: An Unusual (well, to me) Latin Script

I think the standard practice is to solve different letters in a new script or hand one by one. How are a ’s written, or how α’s, etc. This script is difficult to me. I thought I saw apud near the middle of the first line, but I could well be mistaken. Do you think what looks like two vertical lines...
by Timothée
Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:01 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Luke II.25-27
Replies: 34
Views: 23202

Re: Luke II.25-27

I have no access to later editions, but Blass (before Debrunner) writes on πνεῦμα: τὸ ἅγιον πνεῦμα bald gewissermaßen als Person, und dann mit Artikel, bald als göttlicher in den Menschen einziehender Geist, und dann ohne Artikel, wenn nicht Anaphora ist wie A 2:4, 8:13, vgl. 17; in 10:44 ἐπέπεσεν τ...
by Timothée
Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:28 am
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What's the weather like today (Ἑλληνιστί)
Replies: 3291
Views: 1140276

Re: What's the weather like today (φθινόπωρον)

Two smallish notes—unless I’ve misunderstood something, of course:
bedwere wrote:Ἤδη δ' ἀνάγνων, ὦ φίλε Μᾶρκε, ἐκεῖνον τὸ βιβλίον ἐν τῇ Ἀγγλικῇ.
by Timothée
Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:12 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: K.-G. on Perseus
Replies: 8
Views: 2969

Re: K.-G. on Perseus

I was mistaken: the paragraphs run through the whole of Kühner—Blass and continue from there through the whole of Kühner—Gerth. Your reference might be to the page 51 of the second volume of Kühner—Gerth. If so, I don’t know if or how clearly the pagination is marked in Perseus. What kind of subject...
by Timothée
Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:39 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: K.-G. on Perseus
Replies: 8
Views: 2969

Re: K.-G. on Perseus

They are not. The division into paragraphs runs through the whole of K—B on the one hand, and through the whole of K—G on the other hand.
by Timothée
Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:20 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: K.-G. on Perseus
Replies: 8
Views: 2969

Re: K.-G. on Perseus

Both Kühner—Blass and Kühner—Gerth were originally publishes in two volumes, so four in total. If you buy them today, however, as new (reprographic) books from the WBG, K—B will be in one and K—G in another volume, the latter having also the Index locorum. In total they will comprehend ca. 2900 pages.
by Timothée
Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:53 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: augment in εἷλον
Replies: 6
Views: 2852

Re: augment in εἷλον

As I see it, ἑλεῖν has a good, plausible Indo-European etymology, cognates seen particularly in Germanic (to sell, Sw. sälja) but also in Celtic. More uncertain is the possible connexion of these with Latin consulere.

But αἱρεῖν is truly a conundrum.
by Timothée
Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:59 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: augment in εἷλον
Replies: 6
Views: 2852

Re: augment in εἷλον

It didn’t begin with a vowel originally, as you can see from the spiritus asper. This is why the augmentum temporale is different from the “normal”. We see the same elsewhere, of course, as e.g. in εἶχον (initial aspiration lost in accordance with Grassmann’s law).
by Timothée
Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:00 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The curious case of initial aspiration
Replies: 5
Views: 2354

Re: The curious case of initial aspiration

As I tried to explain, it’s really a non-issue, so not safe at all to presume that it has been “glossed over by linguists”.
by Timothée
Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The curious case of initial aspiration
Replies: 5
Views: 2354

Re: The curious case of initial aspiration

When [h] developed in Greek, it was quite understandable that a few sounds merged into it. It was and is an easily uttered and quite weak sound (and often unstable). It was weakly pronounced in ancient Greek and in Latin, and has thereafter disappeared from Greek and from Proto-Romance. σ has a few ...
by Timothée
Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:53 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Accusative Absolute (From: The Little Prince)
Replies: 19
Views: 6416

Re: Accusative Absolute (From: The Little Prince)

I should have included it in the first place. All of this is under the discussion on participles in the grammar, and there under the subsection γ “absolute Partizipialkonstruktionen”. There is also discussion on absolute genitive (and very little on absolute dative) before absolute accusative and ab...
by Timothée
Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Accusative Absolute (From: The Little Prince)
Replies: 19
Views: 6416

Re: Accusative Absolute (From: The Little Prince)

Hier is another passage from Schwyzer—Debrunner (p. 401—403): 3. Der erste bei Hdt. und bes. bei den Attikern auftretende sog. acc. abs. , der durch den Nom.-Akk. Sg. (selten Plur.) von Partizipia unpersönlicher Ausdrücke gebildet wird, war geschichtlich von Haus aus ein Nom. der Satzapposition (der...
by Timothée
Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Accusative Absolute (From: The Little Prince)
Replies: 19
Views: 6416

Re: The Little Prince...in Ancient Greek

Schwyzer—Debrunner on accusative adverbs and absolute accusative p. 85—86: V. Akkusativadverbien Die Akkusativadverbien bilden nicht einmal formell eine in jedem Einzelfall sicher abzugrenzende Kategorie, da bei den unter ihnen sehr häufigen Neutra (bes. von Adjektiva und Pronomina) der Akkusativ ni...
by Timothée
Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Accusative Absolute (From: The Little Prince)
Replies: 19
Views: 6416

Re: The Little Prince...in Ancient Greek

Cf. Speijer, Sanskrit Syntax (p. 41—42): § 55 As a rule, the accusative neuter of any adjective noun may do duty for an adverb, śīgʰraṁ gaccʰati (he goes swiftly), mr̥du bʰāṣate (he speaks gently), cʰannaṁ viharati (he amuses himself secretly), sabahumānaṁ satkaroti (he entertains respectfully). The...
by Timothée
Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: S stem Consonant Declension Noun Question
Replies: 9
Views: 3288

Re: S stem Consonant Declension Noun Question

Κρέας and εὖρος are neuter nouns: in all neuters, the nominative, accusative, and vocative are always the same for any given noun (in the same number). In 3rd declension masculines and feminines the commonest singular accusative ending is -α (contractions and other changes will be in work when neede...
by Timothée
Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:06 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: hi, and what language?
Replies: 14
Views: 7418

Re: hi, and what language?

Maybe the most logical message would be “From Crete, Kirkou etc.” This won’t explain why the graver started writing in Latin letters but soon changed into the Greek ones. A possible explanation might be that he didn’t have a model to write the first words but only knew them aurally. I don’t say this...
by Timothée
Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:22 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: hi, and what language?
Replies: 14
Views: 7418

Re: hi, and what language?

Well, rather transcription (translitteration is done letter by letter). Κρήτη is of course pronounced [kriti] in Modern Greek. But it’s not clear why that should stand here, so it could be something accidentally similar. It seems plausible or at the very least possible that Ι and Ρ have changed plac...
by Timothée
Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:23 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: hi, and what language?
Replies: 14
Views: 7418

Re: hi, and what language?

I did read the first word as μέχρι, and Crete is Κρήτη. Κιρκος means very little in Modern Greek; in LS we have it. But this could well be but nonsense. Maybe it is just a name. Genitival ending is of course very common in modern Greek surnames. ΣΥΓΧΩΡΗ is a little difficult. I suppose it could theo...