Search found 763 matches

by seneca2008
Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:27 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Brill's Dictionary
Replies: 97
Views: 61439

Re: Brill's Dictionary

Several mental steps are involved in getting from “single-bridled” to “mounted.” These are steps for the reader to take (or not), not a dictionary. For a dictionary to do this kind of decoding (even if it got it right) is false to the author, and cheats the reader. The full entry is "that which has...
by seneca2008
Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:16 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Brill's Dictionary
Replies: 97
Views: 61439

Re: Brill's Dictionary

To translate μονάμπυκες πῶλοι as “mounted colts” is disgraceful, when μοναμπυκες means nothing like “mounted.” It is interesting that you characterise this entry as "disgraceful" as if some sense of purity of meaning has been traduced but I think it reveals a very particular approach to the functio...
by seneca2008
Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:17 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Brill's Dictionary
Replies: 97
Views: 61439

Re: Brill's Dictionary

As a further example of the outdated language of LSJ I draw your attention to the following entries which arose in my reading this evening of Alcestis. LSJ: μον-άμπυξ , υ^κος, ὁ, ἡ, of horses, A. [select] having one frontlet, μονάμπυκες πῶλοι horses that run single, race-horses, opp. chariots, E. Al...
by seneca2008
Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:18 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Brill's Dictionary
Replies: 97
Views: 61439

Re: Brill's Dictionary

I fear that the last remark by mwh is a little abrasive. Certainly the Brill entry for ἀραῖος is shorter but I dont think any essential information is missing. The intention is clearly to produce a more streamlined and easier to use dictionary. I think that the benefits are seen more clearly in the ...
by seneca2008
Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:46 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Brill's Dictionary
Replies: 97
Views: 61439

Re: Brill's Dictionary

Thanks mwh and hylander. I see the force of your argument and it shows the dangers of commenting on plays I have not looked at recently. I am not sure that I see that Jebb's note is inconsistent with his translation but I need to think about it further. I am more convinced by the difficulty of what ...
by seneca2008
Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:01 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The Greek Dialects: Where to Start
Replies: 8
Views: 24437

Re: The Greek Dialects: Where to Start

I think we should beware taking what Pharr says on trust. As you can see from this article http://www.jstor.org/stable/3288087?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents a review published in 1921 at least one reviewer had doubts about his statistical claims on the complexity of Homeric vocabulary compared to Att...
by seneca2008
Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:11 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Brill's Dictionary
Replies: 97
Views: 61439

Re: Brill's Dictionary

I am responding here briefly to what Michael has said on another thread http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64524#p179049 about the Brill dictionary. I dont take what you say as an attack on brill. I think it is always wise to be cautious. I have spent several years arguing ...
by seneca2008
Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:35 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The Greek Dialects: Where to Start
Replies: 8
Views: 24437

Re: The Greek Dialects: Where to Start

I absolutely agree with Hylander. The only possible reason for learning "homeric" greek first is the syntactical simplicity but that is outweighed by the complexity of the morphology. I also think the vocabulary is much more complex. One encounters many more words in Homer where it is evident that e...
by seneca2008
Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:57 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Detailed commentaries on style/beauty of classical texts?
Replies: 5
Views: 2063

Re: Detailed commentaries on style/beauty of classical texts

Perhaps if you were to tell us what you want to read then it might be easier to help with commentaries. As mwh says Austin is of an excellent resource, although there is an extensive secondary literature on virgil which needs to be consulted. The cambridge companion is a good introduction. I suppose...
by seneca2008
Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem
Replies: 23
Views: 9385

Re: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem

Perhaps when you have started reading Lysias you could start a new thread and post your questions there. I strongly recommend that you start Lysias at paragraph 6 and read the introduction later. 1-5 , the address to the Jury is much more elaborate and difficult to read than the rest of the narrative.
by seneca2008
Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:26 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: smyth and the basics
Replies: 23
Views: 12266

Re: smyth and the basics

The Brill dictionary is a translation of the Italian one If you look at my post on the Brill dictionary thread you will see that the preface explicitly states that this is not so. All dictionaries of course take account of their predecessors. LSJ was based on Passow which in turn was based on Schne...
by seneca2008
Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: contracted vs uncontracted
Replies: 11
Views: 5995

Re: contracted vs uncontracted

For testing I can recommend this site:

http://www.etoncollege.com/GreekProject ... b93df8751f
by seneca2008
Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:03 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Koine --> Homeric
Replies: 8
Views: 4590

Re: Koine --> Homeric

I thought Pulleyn's commentary on book 1 was very useful:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Iliad-Book-One- ... entary+oup
by seneca2008
Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: smyth and the basics
Replies: 23
Views: 12266

Re: smyth and the basics

It's quite possible that LSJ will still be consulted when no one uses Brill. I am sure that in the future there will be a place for both. The advantage the Brill has is that in its on line form at least it will be much easier to update and correct. I wonder whether we should call the Brill dictiona...
by seneca2008
Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:13 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Detailed commentaries on style/beauty of classical texts?
Replies: 5
Views: 2063

Re: Detailed commentaries on style/beauty of classical texts

I think the problem about this kind of approach is that it is subjective and quickly dates. I think its more likely to tell you about the aesthetics of the commentator than the original writer. Ovid Seneca and Lucan amongst others have been criticised on rather spurious "stylistic" grounds. See Rose...
by seneca2008
Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:43 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Accentuation Alcestis
Replies: 6
Views: 2479

Re: Accentuation Alcestis

Even Homer nods.
by seneca2008
Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:26 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Accentuation Alcestis
Replies: 6
Views: 2479

Re: Accentuation Alcestis

Yes it is, see Probert 287. But this always foxed me when I started learning Greek. I thought others less expert than you might be confused and it was worth a post.
by seneca2008
Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:48 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Accentuation Alcestis
Replies: 6
Views: 2479

Accentuation Alcestis

I am reading Alcestis and encountered the following line which might be of interest as there have been a few posts recently about the peculiarities of accents:

ἀλλ᾽ οὖν ἐκεῖσε προσδόκα μ᾽, ὅταν θάνω,
καὶ δῶμ᾽ ἑτοίμαζ᾽, ὡς συνοικήσουσά μοι.
by seneca2008
Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: contracted vs uncontracted
Replies: 11
Views: 5995

Re: contracted vs uncontracted

@hylander Thanks as you see I had edited my post because I realised I was using Goodwin not Smyth! So many books on my desk... such confusion.
by seneca2008
Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: smyth and the basics
Replies: 23
Views: 12266

Re: smyth and the basics

LSJ is another resource that you should try to take advantage of in desperate moments. In general I agree although I have lost count of the number of times when reading a commentary I read that LSJ is wrong. If one has time ones needs to consult as many sources as possible and make up ones own mind...
by seneca2008
Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:04 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: contracted vs uncontracted
Replies: 11
Views: 5995

Re: contracted vs uncontracted

In general, contracted forms of verbs are used in attic literature. Goodwin 784-785 explains the cases where contracted verbs are also used in Homer and Herodotus and other dialects. Is the uncontracted part '-ω, -εις, ει' just the personal pronoun, equivalent to 'I, thou, he'? There is a confusion ...
by seneca2008
Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:10 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: smyth and the basics
Replies: 23
Views: 12266

Re: smyth and the basics

I feel a loyalty to this course because it's the one I used. I too used it and I think its a great resource. Some posters mentioned that there may be additional help in the independent study guide so I thought I would check. You are right that crasis is mentioned in the grammar but some way before ...
by seneca2008
Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:26 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: smyth and the basics
Replies: 23
Views: 12266

Re: smyth and the basics

yeah the independent study guide extremely helpful. I looked through my copy of the independent study guide and it gives no help on the crasis involved here. Crasis is something I kept forgetting about when I started to learn ancient Greek. Making mistakes as they say is an important part of learni...
by seneca2008
Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: γέγονα and γεγένημαι
Replies: 2
Views: 1558

Re: γέγονα and γεγένημαι

My Brill dictionary says that the perfect active is usually used in the sense "to be born" (to have been born) and cites passages from Homer to Aristophanes. It then gives the sense "to be created" (Clem.) which uses the perfect middle participle.

Does your question have a context?
by seneca2008
Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem
Replies: 23
Views: 9385

Re: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem

I wonder whether you might be trying to be a bit too ambitious in reading the symposium at such an early stage in your Greek reading? The first complete text I read after a year's study of Greek (admittedly I was attending classes) was Lysias 1. On the killing of Eratosthenes. The first paragraph is...
by seneca2008
Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem
Replies: 23
Views: 9385

Re: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem

Thanks for pointing me to the right passage in Chandler. I dont see that the exceptions he gives as covering this case.

I note that he concludes that "It will be found, however that editors are capricious and inconsistent. "
by seneca2008
Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:06 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem
Replies: 23
Views: 9385

Re: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem

οἰόμενος τὶ ποιεῖν: Well I have read and re read what you have written about the accentuation. I have also looked again at Probert and have not found there something which supports what you say. I have looked at Chandler and like wise can find nothing. I have no expertise in accentuation so I would...
by seneca2008
Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:21 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem
Replies: 23
Views: 9385

Re: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem

I dont have the OCT to hand and so I relied on perseus which I assumed had correctly transcribed the text. I too could not see a reason for the accent and as I have only read the symposium in the Dover edition its not something I have ever thought about before. None does not say which text he is usi...
by seneca2008
Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:45 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Advice on learning Latin
Replies: 28
Views: 7253

Re: Advice on learning Latin

I dont know the lingua latina series but if you got to the second book and it didnt make sense I think you need to go over book one more carefully. If you are interested in learning grammar then North and Hillard is worthwhile. But i get the impression you want to run before you can walk. The actual...
by seneca2008
Mon Jan 25, 2016 6:32 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Quis/Quid or Qui/Quod
Replies: 4
Views: 1830

Re: Quis/Quid or Qui/Quod

quid and quis are sometimes used in normal sentences
What exactly do you mean by "normal sentences"?

Quis and quid are used with the subjunctive in indirect questions. But perhaps you have something else in mind? Do you have some examples?
by seneca2008
Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:15 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Advice on learning Latin
Replies: 28
Views: 7253

Re: Advice on learning Latin

You can only acquire vocabulary by reading and testing yourself. There are lots of on line sites that can help with the testing. Have a look at memrise. I revised my Greek vocabulary by using their North and Hillard test. There are loads of vocabulary lists there. After one year of learning Latin by...
by seneca2008
Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem
Replies: 23
Views: 9385

Re: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem

1) As for "τῇ ὑστεραίᾳ ἢ ᾗ", is the clause after "ᾗ" an adverbial clause of time, and is "τῇ ὑστεραίᾳ" in apposition with the time indicated by "ὅτε"? (2) Does this sentence mean that ἡ συνουσία happened on the same day when Agathon won, and it was a day later than the sacrifice? (3)The reason I as...
by seneca2008
Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:07 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem
Replies: 23
Views: 9385

Re: Plato's Symposium: Translation Problem

I have three questions concerning this sentence: (1) As for the participle "περιτρέχων", is it a supplementary participle of the verb "οἰόμενος" (as I have translated) or not (circumstantial use of the participle, translated as: before that time, running around, I happened to be thinking that....)?...
by seneca2008
Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:56 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Advice on learning Latin
Replies: 28
Views: 7253

Re: Advice on learning Latin

Perhaps you might ask yourself what you want to read rather what should you read. Senecan prose is quite straightforward compared to say Tacitus but if you have a love of history rather than philosophy you might be more motivated to read Tacitus. Catullus is also quite easy to read. Why dont you jus...
by seneca2008
Sun Jan 24, 2016 6:54 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Greek Mythology
Replies: 4
Views: 2119

Re: Greek Mythology

I suggest you look for Timothy Gantz "Early Greek Myth" A guide to literary and artistic sources. Two Vols. John Hopkins University press 1993 It is a fascinating work which is pretty exhaustive. I found the fact that it looked at vases and other material culture which often predate early texts very...
by seneca2008
Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Books on Attic Greek
Replies: 4
Views: 2360

Re: Books on Attic Greek

Reading Greek is excellent I used it and then switched to Athenaze book 2. You could also start with Athenaze book 1. Mastronarde looks good too and there is on line help for it. Despite what others have written I strongly advise learning Attic first rather than trying Homeric greek. When you know a...
by seneca2008
Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thrasymachus: A Question of Interpretation
Replies: 11
Views: 4956

Re: Thrasymachus: A Question of Interpretation

A child killing Cerberus doesn't make sense How is a child able to kill a hellhound? I I think here that I am dying ἁποθνῄσκω is used figuratively rather than literally. Also dont forget that παῖς can mean slave as well as child. I am not sure if this is the word used here or τέκνον I havent seen t...
by seneca2008
Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Brill's Dictionary
Replies: 97
Views: 61439

Re: Brill's Dictionary

@jeidsath Apparently I am not allowed to post links until I have posted 10 times. Nonetheless if you you go the brill site and navigate to brill-dictionary-ancient-greek you can download a pdf which gives the first 20 or so pages of the dictionary as well as an explanation of how the entries are str...
by seneca2008
Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:50 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Birds - Aristophanes
Replies: 8
Views: 4299

Re: Birds - Aristophanes

I would like to say that it was a typing error but even the first name didnt give me a clue that Dunbar is a woman. Alas she is no longer with us. As someone who takes a special interest in gender in ancient Greek literature I should have been more careful. Thanks for pointing it out.
by seneca2008
Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Birds - Aristophanes
Replies: 8
Views: 4299

Re: Birds - Aristophanes

Τὸ δ' ἐμὲ (κορώνῃ πειθόμενον) (τὸν ἄθλιον) ὁδοῦ περιελθεῖν στάδια πλεῖν ἢ χίλια I would construe Τὸ ....περιελθεῖν as an articular infinitive wretched me obeying a crow going around more than a thousand stade of travelling. Others translate this by beginning [To think] that I have gone round wretche...