Search found 1763 matches

by Hylander
Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:54 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Mastronarde ch. 41
Replies: 4
Views: 1868

Re: Mastronarde ch. 41

The Greek perfect indicates that the subject, at the present time , is in a state that is the result of a past action. The Greek pluperfect is the imperfect tense of the Greek perfect: the subject, at some past time , was in a state that was the result of an earlier action. The pluperfect in English...
by Hylander
Fri Nov 27, 2015 2:47 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: "ipse . . . is" as intensifiers for 1st person
Replies: 4
Views: 2040

Re: "ipse . . . is" as intensifiers for 1st person

There's nothing odd about a first-person use of ipse.
by Hylander
Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:37 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: translating middle with dative and genitive
Replies: 3
Views: 1924

Re: translating middle with dative and genitive

is τῇ θεῶ correct?
You need an iota subscript under the ω.

Your translation is ok, except that instead of φερονται you need a neuter present middle-passive participle, φερομενα.
by Hylander
Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:15 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: subjunctive substituted for imperative
Replies: 2
Views: 1842

Re: subjunctive substituted for imperative

This is what Woodcock, A New Latin Syntax , sec. 126 Note (i), has to say: The use of the second person of the present subjunctive instead of the imperative, e.g., taceas for tace , 'be silent', is common in early and colloquial Latin, but rare in classical prose. On the other hand, it is regularly ...
by Hylander
Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:29 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin metre
Replies: 1
Views: 1563

Re: Latin metre

You might try D.S. Raven, Latin Metre.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Latin-Metre-BCP ... atin+meter
by Hylander
Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Spiritual assimilation
Replies: 3
Views: 1905

Re: Spiritual assimilation

I assume you mean: "Why does εἴθ' ἐξεκόπην not become εἴτ' ἑξεκόπην?". The best I (or anyone else) can do is to give you a tautologous answer: because the Greeks pronounced φ, θ and χ as aspirated consonants regardless whether these sounds occurred before a rough or smooth breathing. There's no reas...
by Hylander
Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Help with translating adjective
Replies: 1
Views: 1330

Re: Help with translating adjective

Your translation is essentially correct, but where English would say "many rich treasuries," Greek says θησαυροι πολλοι και πλουσιοι. πλουσιοι is an adjective modifying θησαυροι. In both cases, instead of "exist", "there is/are" would be better. θησαυρος usually means a "treasury" -- a storage place...
by Hylander
Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:47 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Let's Read: AJAX
Replies: 73
Views: 26380

Re: Let's Read: AJAX

F.'s commentary is very thorough, but he often makes his points too elliptically, simply referring the reader to work published elsewhere, so that unless you are reading in a large reference library, it's often difficult to see what he's driving at. Of course, his elliptical style saves space in an ...
by Hylander
Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:21 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Let's Read: AJAX
Replies: 73
Views: 26380

Re: Let's Read: AJAX

Finglass: "Verbal asyndeton at the start of the trimeter, with the second verb longer (and more violent) than the first, mimetically expresses Athena's vigor . . . "

He translates: "But as the man raved with maddening sickness I urged, I cast him into the nets of disaster."
by Hylander
Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:21 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Let's Read: AJAX
Replies: 73
Views: 26380

Re: Let's Read: AJAX

For what it's worth, Finglass cites to his note on Electra 719, where the verbal asyndeton does occur at the beginning of the trimeter (unlike Ajax 60--his remark puzzled me until I read the note on E. 719). In that note, Finglass asserts that verbal asyndeton is common in both tragic lyric and trag...
by Hylander
Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:47 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Let's Read: AJAX
Replies: 73
Views: 26380

Re: Let's Read: AJAX

I don't see this as chiasmus, even vaguely--just two coordinate verbs in asyndeton, i.e., not connected by a conjunction. μανιάσιν νόσοις, even if taken as modifying ὤτρυνον, isn't parallel to εἰς ἕρκη κακά, except that both are adverbial. Chiasmus is a rhetorical, not a syntactic, figure that requi...
by Hylander
Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Archilochus again
Replies: 15
Views: 3707

Re: Archilochus again

They’re not different editions. They’re multiforms.
LOL
by Hylander
Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Archilochus again
Replies: 15
Views: 3707

Re: Archilochus again

Don't spend any more time on trying to figure out the verb form. It's a crux: as transmitted, the text is unintelligible here. That's why various scholars have proposed different solutions. But the meaning of the verse is clear. the exclusive European edition I managed to smuggle a bootleg copy of t...
by Hylander
Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:59 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: British Museum
Replies: 20
Views: 10677

Re: British Museum

As we say in English, bon voyage!
by Hylander
Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:55 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: imperial heir
Replies: 10
Views: 3979

Re: imperial heir

For "emperor" you might try "the Caesar" or "the August one" ( Augustus in Latin), and, if you use "the August one" for the emperor, you might use "the Caesar" for the emperor-in-waiting. See Lewis & Short, Caesar : http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.2:164.lewisandshort Ma...
by Hylander
Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:20 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Athematic -α- aorists and other questions
Replies: 14
Views: 4884

Re: Athematic -α- aorists and other questions

Smyth reflects "literary" Doric--the Doric of choral poetry by Alcman, Steisichorus, Pindar (who was actually a Boeotian from Thebes), etc., as well as the superficially Doricized Attic of Athenian drama, and the Doric (which isn't entirely Doric) of Theocritus and Callimachus. These varieties of li...
by Hylander
Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:54 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Let's Read: AJAX
Replies: 73
Views: 26380

Re: Let's Read: AJAX

ἐπέσχε χεῖρα μαιμῶσαν φόνου -- LSJ suggests that φόνου could be a complement of ἐπέσχε rather than of μαιμῶσαν:

"What restrained his desiring/aiming hand from murder?"

as opposed to

"What restrained his hand desiring/aiming at murder?".

Both alternatives are plausible.
by Hylander
Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:47 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Let's Read: AJAX
Replies: 73
Views: 26380

Re: Let's Read: AJAX

κυναγίᾳ -- It's not usual to find a Doric form in tragic dialogue, but LSJ cites two other instances (one merely probable) of this word in tragedy. I don't have an answer for this. The dialogue in Greek (Athenian) drama is Attic-ionic; the choral/lyric passages are in "Doric", which is really a ligh...
by Hylander
Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:41 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Let's Read: AJAX
Replies: 73
Views: 26380

Re: Let's Read: AJAX

Is ὑπεζύγην πόνῳ mildly self-deprecating, ie., is Odysseus calling himself everybody's packhorse? I think it's self-laudatory. Odysseus thinks of himself as a pro-active stand-up guy who does what's necessary on behalf of the community. The first two syllables of πεδία are resolved here? Does that ...
by Hylander
Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Let's Read: AJAX
Replies: 73
Views: 26380

Re: Let's Read: AJAX

Aias' fragrant footsteps seems a bit far-fetched. There's no reason to apply the epithet to A.'s footprints. ευρινοσ seems more natural and apt to refer to a dog's capacity to track by scent--O.'s keen tracking ability is compared to a dog's nose. Nominative ευρινοσ can be applied to βασισ by enalla...
by Hylander
Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:46 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Let's Read: AJAX
Replies: 73
Views: 26380

Re: Let's Read: AJAX

The βάσις must refer to that of Odysseus, pace the scholiast. O's βάσις -- the way he walks or goes -- is like a βάσις of a well-nosed Laconian bitch. Or his well-nosed βάσις is like a βάσις of a Laconian bitch. The scholiast's apparent attribution of the word βάσις to Aias is difficult to make sens...
by Hylander
Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:52 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Let's Read: AJAX
Replies: 73
Views: 26380

Re: Let's Read: AJAX

The subject of ἐκφέρει ("bring you to your goal") is βάσις ("your course", "your steps"). The scholiast takes βάσις as that of Aias, not Odysseus. See LSJ ἐκφέρω A IV: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3De)kfe%2Frw LSJ βάσις: http://www.perseus.tufts....
by Hylander
Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:41 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Archimedes' quote
Replies: 21
Views: 9961

Re: Archimedes' quote

Probably ευρηκα (with smooth breathing/no aspiration). The famous quote is apparently from Plutarch, about 400 years later, and Plutarch apparently used the form εὕρηκα, according to LSJ: “εὕρηκα” Archim. ap. Plu.2.1094c:— http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3A...
by Hylander
Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:45 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Archimedes' quote
Replies: 21
Views: 9961

Re: Archimedes' quote

The version you quoted from Pappus seems to be Attic. The other versions look more or less Doric. According to Wikipedia, there's a version earlier than Pappus in Diodorus Siculus. But Archimedes died around 212 BCE, and Diodorus was writing about 150 later, more or less. It's really impossible to k...
by Hylander
Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:41 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A Halloween treat
Replies: 14
Views: 4860

Re: A Halloween treat

"Finns have the poorest English skills in the Nordic countries." The reason for this is probably that, unlike the other Nordic languages, Finnish is not genetically related to English. But Finnish does rank high in English proficiency in the rest of the non-Anglophone world. And the Finnish educatio...
by Hylander
Tue Nov 03, 2015 3:07 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A Halloween treat
Replies: 14
Views: 4860

Re: A Halloween treat

"Now someone will have to explain Hylander’s joke to me. Paul do you get it? If it’s a private joke between the two of you, I call foul."

Paul pretends to be Finnish, but his impeccable command of English makes it clear that this is an utter falsehood.
by Hylander
Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A Halloween treat
Replies: 14
Views: 4860

Re: A Halloween treat

Finns.
by Hylander
Sun Nov 01, 2015 2:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accents in Sappho 44.12-13
Replies: 14
Views: 4444

Re: accents in Sappho 44.12-13

"Diacrirical mark" or just "diacritical" would be better than "accent" to refer to a breathing mark. "Accent" is refers exclusively to the tone accents, acute, circumflex and grave. But your question was a good one. If you're reading Sappho, you should definitely try to understand the meters. The Ae...
by Hylander
Sat Oct 31, 2015 2:16 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accents in Sappho 44.12-13
Replies: 14
Views: 4444

Re: accents in Sappho 44.12-13

mwh: One explanation for the strong caesuras in the hexameter might be, again, the "composition in performance" origin of epic verse--the need for a pause in a long line in a long song for the singer to catch his breath and collect his thoughts for the second part of the verse. This might not be so ...
by Hylander
Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accents in Sappho 44.12-13
Replies: 14
Views: 4444

Re: accents in Sappho 44.12-13

Was ἐϋτρόχοις pronounced any differently from εὐτρόχοις I wonder? The same alternation between ευ- as diphthong and as adjacent short monophthongs (the second occurring in a long/heavy/closed syllable) can be found in the Homeric poems. There must have been some difference--the difference is metric...
by Hylander
Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accents in Sappho 44.12-13
Replies: 14
Views: 4444

Re: accents in Sappho 44.12-13

what do you think about the idea maintained by West (and maybe others) that the original elements of the hexameter are (– υ υ – υ υ –), (υ υ – υ υ – υ υ – –), (– υ υ – υ υ – υ), and (υ – υ υ – υ υ – –), i.e. the individual parts that come before and after the caesura. The hemiepes (_ υ υ _ υ υ _), ...
by Hylander
Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accents in Sappho 44.12-13
Replies: 14
Views: 4444

Re: accents in Sappho 44.12-13

It's generally thought that the Aeolic type of meter, with isosyllabism, represents the most archaic type of Greek meter. It's well known that there are parallels to the glyconic in the anuṣṭubh, a meter used in many of the units of the Rg Veda, and it's thought that this reflects a common descent o...
by Hylander
Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:07 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Aorist vs. Perfect
Replies: 5
Views: 2312

Re: Aorist vs. Perfect

The perfect merged with the aorist over the course of the evolution of Greek . . . and a new periphrastic perfect with εχω eventually emerged in modern Greek. I suspect that these passages are a snapshot of the merger in process.
by Hylander
Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:15 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accents in Sappho 44.12-13
Replies: 14
Views: 4444

Re: accents in Sappho 44.12-13

It's not a typo. Your question relates to breathings, not accents, of course. In the first line, the basically "dactylic" meter requires that ευ- in εὐρύχορον be treated as a diphthong, giving the word the metrical shape _ υ υ _. In the second line, ευ- in ἐυτρόχοις must be two syllables--not a diph...
by Hylander
Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:02 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: question about accenting ruless
Replies: 7
Views: 2691

Re: question about accenting ruless

Even further off-topic, I wouldn't go anywhere near Eustathius.

He boasted that he never took a bath.
by Hylander
Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:39 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Question regarding οὐ
Replies: 14
Views: 4588

Re: Question regarding οὐ

It's interesting that ευχαριστω is still the modern Greek word for "thank you." Back in the second century, snooty Attic purists were insisting on χαριν οιδα, denouncing ευχαριστω (undoubtedly without foundation) as a vulgar innovation. https://archive.org/stream/newphrynichusbei00phry#page/68/mode/...
by Hylander
Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:22 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Greetings from Hylander/Qimmik
Replies: 11
Views: 4728

Re: Greetings from Hylander/Qimmik

After I put Qimmik to sleep, I adopted a Malamute stray who was being fostered from a shelter. The shelter had named him "Dakota," which I think is a name frequently given to dogs. I thought about giving him a native Alaskan name--there are some here: https://www.uaf.edu/anlc/resources/ But after tw...
by Hylander
Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:14 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: First catilinarian, question about ista
Replies: 1
Views: 1216

Re: First catilinarian, question about ista

Iste isn't always purely contemptuous. It's simply the demonstrative of the second person. Cicero has just used illa in the preceding sentence; perhaps he wants variety. Also, I think, he's holding up examples of the old-fashioned "virtue" of political murder--an irony that seems to be lost on Cicer...
by Hylander
Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:45 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: From Cato's instructions - Gerundive
Replies: 4
Views: 2012

Re: From Cato's instructions - Gerundive

"according to my textbooks, gerundive usually goes with preposition when taking accusative case, and even in that case, it must be an attributive adjective - not noun" You seem to be confusing the gerund with the gerundive . These are easily confused, because they are similar in form. The gerund is ...