Search found 1724 matches

by Hylander
Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:08 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Perfect Imperative Active?
Replies: 5
Views: 641

Re: Perfect Imperative Active?

Yes, don't be embarrassed to ask as many questions as you want. That's what this site is for.
by Hylander
Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Perfect Imperative Active?
Replies: 5
Views: 641

Re: Perfect Imperative Active?

Here is what Smyth says: 697. Imperative.—The usual form of the first perfect imperative is periphrastic: λελυκὼς ἴσθι, ἔστω, etc. No classical Attic writer uses the simple forms. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Smyth+grammar+697&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0007 We discussed the pe...
by Hylander
Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:43 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Are there second / third person dual Participles?
Replies: 4
Views: 575

Re: Are there second / third person dual Participles?

Participles don't have personal endings -- they're just inflected for gender, number and case. But there are, at least in theory, dual forms for participles in Attic Greek. The dual forms are probably rather rare, and there would be just four forms, since the masculine and neuter forms are identical...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:18 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἐπί-ἔφ' phonetical changes.
Replies: 3
Views: 499

Re: ἐπί-ἔφ' phonetical changes.

επι, απο, υπο before a consonant

επ', απ'. υπ' before a vowel with a smooth breathing

εφ', αφ', υφ' before a vowel with a rough breathing

Sorry, I gave up on breathing marks because I couldn't find the right ones.
by Hylander
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:43 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: endings of perfect subjunctive?
Replies: 4
Views: 561

Re: endings of perfect subjunctive?

These are alternative forms. Those on the right side are made up of the perfect stem with subjunctive personal endings, just as the present tense is made up of the present stem and subjunctive personal endings, Those on the left side are "periphrastic". They're made up of two words: the perfect part...
by Hylander
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 10985

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

LSJ πρός: B. WITH DAT., . . . III. to express union or addition, once in Hom., ἄασάν μ᾽ ἕταροί τε κακοὶ π. τοῖσί τε ὕπνος and besides them sleep, Od.10.68; “π. τοῖς παροῦσιν ἄλλα” in addition to, A.Pr.323, cf. Pers.531, Xenoph.8.3. Emp.59.3; “ἄλλους π. ἑαυτῷ” Th.1.90; π. ταῖς ἡμετέραις [τριήρεσι] Id...
by Hylander
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 10985

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

ἆρά μοι καλῶς ἔχει; ἀλλ’ οὔ τι μὴν ἔγωγε τοῦ λοιποῦ χρόνου ἔσομαι ξύνοικος τοῦ λοιποῦ χρόνου -- check LSJ. "For the future" or better "from now on" is the sense here. "I will definitely not dwell in the same house with them from now on." ἆρά μοι καλῶς ἔχει; -- she's asking with bitter irony if her s...
by Hylander
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Suggestions
Replies: 7
Views: 989

Re: Reading Suggestions

If you're interested in Plato and in getting an introduction to Attic prose, the Apology would be a good place to start. It's not too long and not too difficult, and there are plenty of annotated editions. It's ok to use a translation where you need help. Equip yourself with the intermediate Liddell...
by Hylander
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:15 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 10985

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

ἆρ’ ὑμὶν ὡς ἀλγοῦσα κὠδυνωμένη δεινῶς δακρῦσαι κἀπικωκῦσαι δοκεῖ τὸν υἱὸν ἡ δύστηνος ὧδ’ ὀλωλότα; ἀλλ’ ἐγγελῶσα φροῦδος. This refers to Clytaemnestra, the mother of Orestes and Electra, who is relieved and joyful when she hears a false report that her son Orestes, is dead. She and her lover Aegisthe...
by Hylander
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:49 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Etymology of βροτός
Replies: 2
Views: 422

Re: Etymology of βροτός

This is supposedly an Aeolic word preserved in Homer (either from the Aeolic phase of the epic tradition or by cultural diffusion, take your pick), and thence spread into other dialects. ρο/ορ is the regular reflex of syllabic ρ in Aeolic (and Mycenaean and Arcado-Cypriot). See Lejeune, Phonétique h...
by Hylander
Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:52 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 10985

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

I should have written “those who died before those who were sent away by Leonidas left”, as you correctly translated it. τῇ, τῷ -- Forms with τ- are used as relatives by Herodotus in the oblique cases. This is explained in the dialect notes to the hardbound Harvard University Press 1956 edition of S...
by Hylander
Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:33 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 10985

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

γενομένων, γενέσθαι -- just "be/was" or maybe "proved to be" συμμεῖξαί-- "join battle", not "skirmish" Τρηχινίων -- usually in English the Attic form is used: "Trachinians" ἔπος, ἔπεά -- not just remarks but famous or proverbial remarks or maybe "quips" would do. τοξεύματα -- arrows or maybe volleys...
by Hylander
Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:27 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 10985

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

A few things offhand. πλεῖστοι φόνοι -- the most murders ὅς σε πολλάκις δορὶ ναύτην ἔθηκεν ἀντὶ χερσαίου κακόν -- the idea is that Hector drove the Greeks back to the sea, or at least to their boats. νῦν δ’ ἐς γυναῖκα γοργὸς ὁπλίτης φανεὶς κτείνεις μ’· ἀπόκτειν’· -- "Now that you've shown what a ter...
by Hylander
Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:13 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Aug. de civitate dei
Replies: 5
Views: 783

Re: Aug. de civitate dei

Just a very minor point, which you may or may not be aware of: iste, at least in clossical Latin, is often contemptuous. Allen & Greenough, sec. 297c: c. Iste is used of what is between the two others [ hic and ille ] in remoteness: often in allusion to the person addressed,—hence called the demonst...
by Hylander
Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:52 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 2007

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

Russian allows #bd- in word-initial position, and Russians have no difficulty articulating this cluster without interposing a vowel. In fact, the cluster arose precisely because an intermediate short vowel dropped out.
by Hylander
Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 2007

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

Greek phonotactics allow word-initial #πτ- and a number of words begin with this cluster. #βδ- is simply the voiced equivalent.
by Hylander
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:30 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Is profici the present passive infinitive of proficio?
Replies: 8
Views: 1030

Re: Is profici the present passive infinitive of proficio?

I don't think profici here is impersonal -- it's passive. The subject is parum, which can be used as a substantive/noun. "Little was being accomplished." But your looser translation is perfectly correct, and in fact more idiomatic English: "there was little progress."
by Hylander
Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:45 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: perequito
Replies: 11
Views: 1188

Re: perequito

McDevitte and Bohn translate this verb as future perfect indicative. Forget the translations -- they're misleading you. The Latin word cannot be future perfect indicative, if only for the reason that it's a subordinate clause in indirect discourse. As I noted in my previous post, either perfect or ...
by Hylander
Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:41 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: perequito
Replies: 11
Views: 1188

Re: perequito

perequitarit is actually a variant reading in some mss. of Caesar's text, noted in the Oxford Classical Text edition. Both perequitarit and perequitasset would be subjunctives, perfect and pluperfect, respectively. Whichever is right, both are subjunctive because the clause is a relative clause of ...
by Hylander
Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:47 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Is profici the present passive infinitive of proficio?
Replies: 8
Views: 1030

Re: Is profici the present passive infinitive of proficio?

Is profici the present passive infinitive of proficio? With due respect to Bedwere, the answer is yes. This verb is not necessarily intransitive: it can mean something like "accomplish". Lewis and Short give an example specifically of profici -- Caesar Gallic Wars 3.21: ubi diligentiā nostrorum nih...
by Hylander
Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:43 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοί and a suggestion for John 2:4
Replies: 13
Views: 2062

Re: τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοί and a suggestion for John 2:4

I don't have time right now to do a proper post, but there are examples of ti emoi etc. in classical Greek. See LSJ tis.
by Hylander
Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:01 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοί and a suggestion for John 2:4
Replies: 13
Views: 2062

Re: τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοί and a suggestion for John 2:4

For what it's worth, τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοί and τί ἐμοὶ καὶ ὑμῖν are literal translations of the Hebrew מַה־לִּ֣י וָלָ֔ךְ and מַה־לִּ֚י וְלָכֶם֙ : "what to-me and-to-you [sing. and plur.]."
by Hylander
Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:52 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Sumerian
Replies: 4
Views: 1217

Sumerian

This has nothing to do with ancient Greek or Latin, but it does relate to an ancient language that, once dead, came to be cultivated as a cultural artifact like Latin and Attic Greek. Interesting obituaries of a pre-eminent Sumerian specialist at the University of Chicago, Dr. Miguel Civil, from the...
by Hylander
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:42 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Mixed conditional
Replies: 7
Views: 1052

Re: Mixed conditional

Is Pinkster expected to come out in paperback anytime soon?
by Hylander
Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: what does "secl. ci." in a criticall apparatus mean?
Replies: 20
Views: 1886

Re: what does "secl. ci." in a criticall apparatus mean?

ἔστι + inf. "it is possible" is normally paroxytone. I think here enclitic ἐστι (as printed in both Burnet and Slings) would be something like "it is the case that", "it's true that" or maybe it could be translated simply by an adverb such as "really". Incidentally Slings in his apparatus notes: sec...
by Hylander
Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:33 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Mixed conditional
Replies: 7
Views: 1052

Re: Mixed conditional

A cite to a traditional grammar, Allen & Greenough 517c: c. Verbs and other expressions denoting necessity, propriety, possibility, duty, when used in the apodosis of a condition contrary to fact, may be put in the Imperfect or Perfect Indicative. Such are oportet , decet , dēbeō , possum , necesse ...
by Hylander
Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:53 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: qua . . . quaestione; Augustine, de civitate dei, Book IX, ch. vi
Replies: 3
Views: 607

Re: qua . . . quaestione; Augustine, de civitate dei, Book IX, ch. vi

Qua interim de sanctis angelis quaestione dilata You correctly recognized this as an ablative absolute. Qua here is the relative adjective used as a connective with what precedes, instead of a demonstrative hac . A&G 308f: f. A relative pronoun (or adverb) often stands at the beginning of an indepe...
by Hylander
Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:10 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: P. Vergilius Maro, Aeneid, XII, 604 and ff.
Replies: 12
Views: 1417

Re: P. Vergilius Maro, Aeneid, XII, 604 and ff.

I rarely disagree with Hylander, but I read the sentence differently. I take laniata as participial, and furit as the one and only finite verb, as I explained in my post. After I've reread it, you're clearly right. "First Lavinia, having mutilated [herself with respect to] her blonde hair and rosy ...
by Hylander
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:31 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: P. Vergilius Maro, Aeneid, XII, 604 and ff.
Replies: 12
Views: 1417

Re: P. Vergilius Maro, Aeneid, XII, 604 and ff.

Sorry for a more basic question but is the “accusative of specification” what might be called (by me at least) the “accusative of respect” in Greek.
Yes. A&G uses a different terminology, but it's the same phenomenon.
by Hylander
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:23 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἡμεῖς used as singular?
Replies: 13
Views: 1392

Re: ἡμεῖς used as singular?

Here it is in Russian: Чуть только Кефал меня увидел, он приветствовал меня такими словами: – Ты, Сократ, не частый гость у нас в Пирее. Это напрасно. Будь я еще в силах с прежней легкостью выбираться в город, тебе совсем не понадобилось бы ходить сюда – мы бы сами посещали тебя там; но теперь ты до...
by Hylander
Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: P. Vergilius Maro, Aeneid, XII, 604 and ff.
Replies: 12
Views: 1417

Re: P. Vergilius Maro, Aeneid, XII, 604 and ff.

The answer to your question, I think, is that laniata here is really the periphrastic perfect passive: participle + est, but est is omitted (as often in poetry, e.g., sic filius orsus , and even prose). Then in the next clause Vergil shifts from the periphrastic perfect tense to the historical prese...
by Hylander
Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: μήτε
Replies: 6
Views: 934

Re: μήτε

I think you are right. See Smyth 1840: 1840. Prohibitions are expressed by μή with the present or aorist subjunctive in the first person plural; by μή with the present imperative or the aorist subjunctive in the second and third person singular or plural (cp. 1800). The aorist imperative is rare in ...
by Hylander
Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:14 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: P. Vergilius Maro, Aeneid, XII, 604 and ff.
Replies: 12
Views: 1417

Re: P. Vergilius Maro, Aeneid, XII, 604 and ff.

laniata is passive in form, to be sure, but it's used as if it were a participle in the Greek "middle" voice: an action performed by the subject on him/herself, for his/her own behalf, or similar. Something between active and passive. Here is Smyth's Greek Grammar on the middle voice: 1713. The mid...
by Hylander
Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:25 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Is there a way to distinguish the two meanings of this sentence?
Replies: 5
Views: 836

Re: Is there a way to distinguish the two meanings of this sentence?

By the way, in response to the original post, although word order is not necessarily relevant to Latin syntactic structure, Latin word order is by no means arbitrary. Word order is very relevant to pragmatic considerations of emphasis, among other things. You might want to read the entire section of...
by Hylander
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:15 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Is there a way to distinguish the two meanings of this sentence?
Replies: 5
Views: 836

Re: Is there a way to distinguish the two meanings of this sentence?

Allen & Geenough 598b: b. Numeral adjectives, adjectives of quantity, demonstrative, relative, and interrogative pronouns and adverbs, tend to precede the word or words to which they belong:— “cum aliquā perturbātiōne ” (Off. 1.137) , with SOME disturbance. “ hōc ūnō praestāmus ” (De Or. 1.32) , in ...
by Hylander
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἐπιδίδωμι
Replies: 6
Views: 874

Re: ἐπιδίδωμι

On the wax tablet writing exercise, as Joel pointed out in his earlier post, the teacher simply misspelled πιστευετε. It’s imperative. The two monostichs are mutually independent. OK. I didn't read them as independent. But usually aphoristic advice like this is framed in 2nd. pers. sing. unless a s...
by Hylander
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἐπιδίδωμι
Replies: 6
Views: 874

Re: ἐπιδίδωμι

CΟΦΟΥ ΠΑΡ ΑΝΔΡΟC ΠΡΟCΔΕΧΟΥ CΥΜΒΟΥΛΙΑΝ ΜΗ ΠΑCΙΝ ΕΙΚΗ ΤΟΙC ΦΙΛΟΙC ΠΙCΤΕΥΕΤΑΙ I'm wondering about μη with indicative here. LSJ s.v. μη suggests this usage is "later Greek", which I guess would be appropriate: b. with pres. or aor. subj. in a warning or statement of fear, μὴ . . γένησθε take care you do...
by Hylander
Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Is this sentence ambiguous?
Replies: 2
Views: 607

Re: Is this sentence ambiguous?

Yes, it's ambiguous. (1) The young men think they will easily defeat the enemy. Not "it will be easy to defeat the enemy"; the subject of the active infinitive νικήσειν in this interpretation is οἱ νεανίαι is the subject of both νομίζουσι and νικήσειν and it remains notionally nominative in indirect...
by Hylander
Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:19 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Review of West's Odyssey
Replies: 11
Views: 2762

Re: Review of West's Odyssey

Here's how West explains "nov. Did" in the preface to his edition of the Odyssey (p.vii): Si quam Aristarchi lectionem laudat Didymus, ideo laudat ut eam alteri cuidam contraponat: cuinam, saepe non dicitur in scholiis, sed raro in dubio est, quae fuerit. Huic in apparatu 'nov. Did' appono, ne te la...