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by jeidsath
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:03 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Digamma in Plato (?) Euthyphro 12a - Burnett
Replies: 3
Views: 795

Re: Digamma in Plato (?) Euthyphro 12a - Burnett

it seems post-Homeric, given the article What if that's actually demonstrative? But Zeus having worked that, even he who made all things was not willing to contend against him. For since fear was there, shame also. Referring to Zeus' castration of his father, I imagine. Which would make the rest of...
by jeidsath
Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:04 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Exodus 3:14 LXX and John 1:18
Replies: 6
Views: 1002

Re: Exodus 3:14 LXX and John 1:18

For a more detailed version of the argument, see Hort's Two Disserations . Here he is on the possibility of a transcriptional error. https://i.imgur.com/PiSnhFN.png https://i.imgur.com/9uthCwK.png https://i.imgur.com/XChst2Q.png Basically, the riddle has been, why would υιος have been changed to θεο...
by jeidsath
Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:11 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Exodus 3:14 LXX and John 1:18
Replies: 6
Views: 1002

Re: Exodus 3:14 LXX and John 1:18

Philo and the Septuagint uses ὁ ὢν consistently to mean God. Paul too, though not quite the same way. But there is one exception, which the TLG tells me that I was miss-remembering. Not 2 John, but the Gospel of John itself (was I thinking "secundum"?): John 3:31: Ὁ ἄνωθεν ἐρχόμενος ἐπάνω πάντων ἐστ...
by jeidsath
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:03 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Exodus 3:14 LXX and John 1:18
Replies: 6
Views: 1002

Re: Exodus 3:14 LXX and John 1:18

Does the world really need another thread about this?

I think that you may be right about ὁ ὢν but its usage in 2 John should give you some pause about being certain about anything.
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:49 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Wilson's Odyssey - again
Replies: 16
Views: 1269

Re: Wilson's Odyssey - again

he mentions that she has worked hard to avoid importing "contemporary sexism" into the poem. This is a good thing, of course, and she does not say that she is able to do this because she is a woman, whatever the NYT may say. The example she gives however, leaves something to be desired : Many conte...
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:26 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Wilson's Odyssey - again
Replies: 16
Views: 1269

Re: Wilson's Odyssey - again

Better to make several points in few words than no point in many. This thread was a topic split, because Seneca deserved a reply, but it wasn't right to muddy the other thread. One of the things that makes Textkit work is a dedication to the Greek and Latin languages. Translations are a subject of c...
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:10 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Wilson's Odyssey - again
Replies: 16
Views: 1269

Re: Wilson's Odyssey - again

I'm afraid I'm can't really engage with you on the literary merits of various English translations. I don't think that they tend to have much literary merit in general. Pope's Rape of the Lock is better than any of his Homer. And thank god that A. E. Housman wrote A Shropshire Lad instead of trying ...
by jeidsath
Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:04 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Wilson's Odyssey - again
Replies: 16
Views: 1269

Re: Wilson's Odyssey - again

This is simply untrue. I have heard her complain that this is all journalists want to talk to her about. Its not her fault if the questions she is asked are about her gender in relation to her role as translator. I'm willing to accept this. (Sean asks which article, and the biggest offender is the ...
by jeidsath
Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:32 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Wilson's Odyssey - again
Replies: 16
Views: 1269

Wilson's Odyssey - again

[Thread split] The Murray/Dimock Loeb has "There rang in my ears a cry as of maidens..." and Wilson has "I heard the sound of female voices." Green has "An outcry of women—young girls—just echoed round about me:" and Rieu “There’s a shrill echo in my ears, as though some girls were shrieking – Nymph...
by jeidsath
Wed Jul 17, 2019 12:27 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140
Replies: 29
Views: 2432

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140

The Murray/Dimock Loeb has "There rang in my ears a cry as of maidens..." and Wilson has "I heard the sound of female voices." Green has "An outcry of women—young girls—just echoed round about me:" and Rieu “There’s a shrill echo in my ears, as though some girls were shrieking – Nymphs”. Of these, ...
by jeidsath
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:33 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: The Philokalia and Climax
Replies: 6
Views: 673

Re: The Philokalia and Climax

The facsimile edition here is pretty good, if you want a physical copy: https://www.patrologiagraeca.org/patrol ... /home.html
by jeidsath
Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:07 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140
Replies: 29
Views: 2432

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140

Seneca was objecting to Pope's version (I think) with ἀϋτή as "voice". Unless he was thinking of another translator.
by jeidsath
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:34 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ὅτι + optative
Replies: 12
Views: 1168

Re: ὅτι + optative

English does it a bit too it. "Distancing device", as CCG says, makes a lot of sense:

He says that he will go.
He said that he would go.

He asks if it is true.
He asked if it were true.
by jeidsath
Tue Jul 16, 2019 12:04 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140
Replies: 29
Views: 2432

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 119-140

It is interesting that the translation in the Chicago Homer underlines the sense of danger by replacing the "voices" which others understand in 122 with "a female battle cry". Here be Amazons? Artemis is perhaps terrifying enough. What else would ἀϋτή mean here? Especially after 120. The Greeks rea...
by jeidsath
Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:00 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: omission of article, Men 84e
Replies: 14
Views: 1332

Re: omission of article, Men 84e

"Isn't it?" is interrogative, not negative, I think. You may also wish to see Denniston's section on οὐκοῦν.
by jeidsath
Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:32 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Can anyone recommend a good old sword-and-sandal movie?
Replies: 13
Views: 1735

Re: Can anyone recommend a good old sword-and-sandal movie?

After "researching" this, Amazon has begun recommending me movies, including "The Fall of the Roman Empire", which presents, according to the trailer "Not Just 3 or 4 - But ALL the Known Emotions!" Regardless of that, it seems like quite a cast together with some decent reviews.
by jeidsath
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:02 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Wax tablets in the Middle Ages
Replies: 3
Views: 662

Re: Wax tablets in the Middle Ages

Here's Chaucer: His felawe hadde a staf tipped with horn, A peyre of tables al of yvory, And a poyntel polysshed fetisly, And wroot the names alwey, as he stood, Of alle folk that yaf hem any good,.... And whan that he was out atte dore, anon He planed awey the names everichon That he biforn had wri...
by jeidsath
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: omission of article, Men 84e
Replies: 14
Views: 1332

Re: omission of article, Men 84e

frankcork23 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:22 am
It’s necessary to distinguish between οὐκοῦν(above) and οὔκουν.
οὐκοῦν has no negative force, and means just the same as οὖν. It should be translated as well, then/so, then/ accordingly:
You may wish to double-check οὐκοῦν A.I in the LSJ.
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:25 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Γ25 - LSJ "εἴπερ" error?
Replies: 5
Views: 814

Re: Γ25 - LSJ "εἴπερ" error?

I wonder what the entry looks like in the latest edition of the LSJ.
Well, as I said, "the Supplement updates the entry for εἴπερ, but doesn't correct this."
by jeidsath
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:06 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: κατά, Meno 73d
Replies: 4
Views: 713

Re: κατά, Meno 73d

If we're trying to understand the Greek, the thing to notice here is that it's not accusative. The "over all cases" would make me expect (perhaps naively) κατα + accusative in Greek, and it would probably be good for us to understand why he chose genitive instead.
by jeidsath
Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:13 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 4034

Re: Plat., Protag, 317e

RandyGibbons wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:00 pm
And wouldn't 3sing. aor. opt. act. have acute on the penult?
Not according to the Perseus Greek Word Study Tool. Or am I making another careless mistake?
I'm going to close my eyes for this.
by jeidsath
Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:34 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Can anyone recommend a good old sword-and-sandal movie?
Replies: 13
Views: 1735

Re: Can anyone recommend a good old sword-and-sandal movie?

I won't vouch for the kid suitableness of any of these, but: Julius Caesar (1953), with Marlon Brando as Marc Antony. Ben-Hur. Quo Vadis. Elizabeth Taylor in Cleopatra. Anthony Quinn in Barabbas. It doesn't really fit your criteria, and you'd probably like this 1957 Oedipus Rex more than your childr...
by jeidsath
Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:45 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 93-118
Replies: 26
Views: 3218

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 93-118

It's unlikely to be the sort of operation that you'd want to perform on an adult boar.
by jeidsath
Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 4034

Re: Prot 323a

If εἶναι depended on προσῆκον: As it's proper to all to share in this virtue or to not be cities. If εἶναι is independent: As it's proper to all to share in this virtue, or cities not to be. The subject-shift would be the problem in the first, but it seems possible. In the second case, the εἶναι πόλ...
by jeidsath
Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:05 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Γ25 - LSJ "εἴπερ" error?
Replies: 5
Views: 814

Γ25 - LSJ "εἴπερ" error?

Γ21 τὸν δ’ ὡς οὖν ἐνόησεν ἀρηΐφιλος Μενέλαος Γ22 ἐρχόμενον προπάροιθεν ὁμίλου μακρὰ βιβάντα, Γ23 ὥς τε λέων ἐχάρη μεγάλῳ ἐπὶ σώματι κύρσας Γ24 εὑρὼν ἢ ἔλαφον κεραὸν ἢ ἄγριον αἶγα Γ25 πεινάων· μάλα γάρ τε κατεσθίει, εἴ περ ἂν αὐτὸν Γ26 σεύωνται ταχέες τε κύνες θαλεροί τ’ αἰζηοί· Τhe LSJ has "if real...
by jeidsath
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 4034

Re: Plat., Protag, 317e

Sorry, Joel, but I have no idea what you just said. As a native speaker of English, I'd say that I dropped something "under a table," but I would never say that I dropped it "below a table." Even though "below" and "under" would mean exactly the same thing semantically, I choose the one and never t...
by jeidsath
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:46 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 4034

Re: Plat., Protag, 317e

I don't think that this is just a usage pattern thing. Michael indicates that it has to do with how the active and middle of ποιέω get used in general, and if so, we shouldn't need to search through papyrus examples to spot what it is. Though they do seem to confirm the pattern.
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:15 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Digamma in Plato (?) Euthyphro 12a - Burnett
Replies: 3
Views: 795

Digamma in Plato (?) Euthyphro 12a - Burnett

Euthyphro 12a9 Ζῆνα δὲ τὸν [θ'] ἔρξαντα καὶ ὃς τάδε πάντ᾽ ἐφύτευσεν οὐκ ἐθέλει νεικεῖν· ἵνα γὰρ δέος ἔνθα καὶ αἰδώς. a9 θέρξαντα B: στέρξαντα T γρ. BW: ῥέξαντα Stobaeus Apostolius schol. ap. Cram. Anecd. Par. I, p. 399: θ᾽ ἕρξαντα B_2 W b1 ἐθέλει νεικεῖν scripsi : ἐθέλεις εἰπεῖν B T ( νείκεσιν [smal...
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Apology 38c
Replies: 5
Views: 626

Re: Apology 38c

That's not what I see. The full section: οὐ πολλοῦ γ᾽ ἕνεκα χρόνου, ὦ ἄνδρες Ἀθηναῖοι, ὄνομα ἕξετε καὶ αἰτίαν ὑπὸ τῶν βουλομένων τὴν πόλιν λοιδορεῖν ὡς Σωκράτη ἀπεκτόνατε, ἄνδρα σοφόν—φήσουσι γὰρ δὴ σοφὸν εἶναι, εἰ καὶ μή εἰμι, οἱ βουλόμενοι ὑμῖν ὀνειδίζειν— εἰ γοῦν περιεμείνατε ὀλίγον χρόνον, ἀπὸ τ...
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:33 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 4034

Re: Plat., Protag, 317e

My Greek is less than slight, so I have to think hard about this. I assume this falls under LSJ: "5 freq. in Med. with Nouns periphr. for the Verb derived from the Noun, μύθου ποιήσασθαι ἐπισχεσίην submit a plea, Od.21.71;...." The English is "make mention", but that's just idiom. It's not really a ...
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Apology 38c
Replies: 5
Views: 626

Re: Apology 38c

It turns out to be exactly what it looks like: "It's not for the sake of a lot of time that you..." You'll see if you read to the end of the sentence.
by jeidsath
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:23 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Stop and Frisk
Replies: 6
Views: 716

Re: Stop and Frisk

I'm not a fan of the site, but lots of people use it to share papers. It's free. Try scrolling down on the page.
by jeidsath
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: long alpha/short alpha
Replies: 10
Views: 944

Re: long alpha/short alpha

What would be an example of a verb beginning with a long alpha? I was going to say I've never seen one, but after a peek at the LSJ, here is one:

κ68 ἄασάν μ' ἕταροί τε κακοὶ πρὸς τοῖσί τε ὕπνος

However, I don't think there can be many.
by jeidsath
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:39 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Stop and Frisk
Replies: 6
Views: 716

Stop and Frisk

Alexander Nikolaev's paper Greek Etymology in the 21st century presents a "detailed illustration of methodological and other flaws of [Beekes' Etymological Dictionary of Greek]."
by jeidsath
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:43 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: τῇ versus πῇ.
Replies: 2
Views: 388

Re: τῇ versus πῇ.

Marchant's apparatus says that the 14th century "Parisinus 1640" manuscript has τη twice, but is changed to πη both times by the hand of the corrector.
by jeidsath
Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:46 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 99a
Replies: 5
Views: 719

Re: meno 99a

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:18 pm
If you insist on using the Latin terminology, genitivus.
Are you sure?
by jeidsath
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:40 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Crit 44d
Replies: 7
Views: 664

Re: Crit 44d

My thought was ἀνάγκη is quasi-impersonal so how can μέλειν an infinitive (for the avoidance of doubt as to what it is) be impersonal. ἀνάγκη αὐτὸν τρέχειν. He must run. (τρέχειν is personal even if ἀνάγκη is not) ἀνάγκη ὕειν. It needs to rain. (Both ἀνάγκη and ὕειν are impersonal. Except in Homer,...
by jeidsath
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:52 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Crit 44d
Replies: 7
Views: 664

Re: Crit 44d

LSJ: "3sg. is freq. used impers. with the object in gen., and pers. in dat." I would think that all signs point to impersonal here. Also, Seneca, I'm not sure what you were trying to say, as of course an infinitive could be either personal or impersonal. It can have a subject just like a finite verb...
by jeidsath
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:34 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?
Replies: 10
Views: 1027

Re: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?

Thank you for the link. Seymour is clearly replying to Ameis here, rather than translating him. Antonia Ruppel's "Absolute Constructions in Early Indo-European" (2013) has an appendix with a full list of what she considers unambiguous genitive absolutes in Homer (and some ambiguous cases), but does ...