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by jeidsath
Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:18 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Doric forms?
Replies: 42
Views: 13780

Re: Doric forms?

Methodological problems come down both to how we ascertain haplogroups (in terms of sampling, in terms of how far back we can project that) and how we account for them. Look at the pre-print that I linked. This is amplified archaic-DNA, ie., from bones not living people. We've only had the technolo...
by jeidsath
Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Doric forms?
Replies: 42
Views: 13780

Re: Doric forms?

just like any other language when you look far enough The importation of a language by a relatively small group that wipes out the culture, language, and material civilization of the previous inhabitants is common, but not ubiquitous in history. There's real history here, and there is just no way t...
by jeidsath
Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:43 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Doric forms?
Replies: 42
Views: 13780

Re: Doric forms?

To sum up: at some stage, conceivably well before the fifth century, the inhabitants of Greece (or at least some of them) started to feel that they spoke and wrote Greek. But I have to disagree with her on this. It's not something they "started to feel." Greek was an import language (along with the...
by jeidsath
Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:47 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Family 35 (Kr) printing soon!
Replies: 13
Views: 11501

Re: Family 35 (Kr) printing soon!

I like it. If you are going to embrace Protestant Primitivism, which textual criticism is mostly an expression of, it's at least a self-consistent viewpoint. One can't always say that about the rest of the vast employment project. Of course, someone like Stanley Hauerwas might say that you don't hav...
by jeidsath
Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Doric forms?
Replies: 42
Views: 13780

Re: Doric forms?

I can't express the same admiration for the Morpurgo-Davies article. Especially her suggestion that Greek congealed as a language? Really? I'd recommend a read of Horrocks instead. Of course, the pre-print for the new paper that everyone has been waiting for these past few months was literally relea...
by jeidsath
Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:32 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Commentaries on Anabasis
Replies: 24
Views: 8877

Re: Commentaries on Anabasis

Mather and Hewitt have a commentary that seems to be a more verbose Goodwin.

Also, I'd be happy to participate in a read-through of Anabasis with you, and hopefully other Textkit members, if you would be interested.

I second Markos' audio recommendation.
by jeidsath
Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Doric forms?
Replies: 42
Views: 13780

Re: Doric forms?

Ἄλλη προσαναδιδοῦσα τῷ παιδὶ τὴν ἀσπίδα καὶ παρακελευομένη, “τέκνον,” ἔφη, “ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τᾶς.” Referred to Gorgo as the author by Aristotle in his Aphorisms, as quoted by Stobaeus, Florilegium, vii. 31, but it is often spoken of as a regular Spartan custom. Cf., for example, the scholium on Thucydid...
by jeidsath
Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:33 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

I'm experimenting a bit with Allen's suggested stress pattern for Greek. Having real stress on each words helps me keep the pitch accent stress-free. From Allen's rules, the "natural" stress for the above would have been ἥκ ω Δι ὸς -π αῖς | τήν δε- Θη βαί αν -χθό να μῆ νιν ἄ ει δε θε ὰ Πη λη ϊά δεω ...
by jeidsath
Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:16 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

@ariphron -- I was re-listening to some of Hagel's spoken audio (he is another Devine & Stephens reader), and noticed that some of his consonants are very similar to yours. I specifically noticed the γ/κ and δ/τ sounds. Really, phonetic transcripts in IPA would make this thread very useful. Unfortun...
by jeidsath
Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:19 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Stefan Hagel's Aulos reconstruction
Replies: 2
Views: 1927

Stefan Hagel's Aulos reconstruction

The extremely impressive Stefan Hagel continues to be extremely impressive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvjc_NUjvp4 Also, a longer video and lecture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGGPmid-o8M And a concert (the sound gets better after the beginning): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uFiE3acouo...
by jeidsath
Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading versions of Anabasis, Iliad
Replies: 29
Views: 12361

Re: Reading versions of Anabasis, Iliad

Thank you. I'm excited about reading more Homer now. The hardest thing for me to get right seems to be the consonant stops, which I don't think can be done slowly. Ἄϊδι προΐαψεν has to be pronounced Ἄϊδιπ ροΐαπ σεν, and the temptation is for me to prolong the second iota of Ἄϊδι or the alpha in προΐ...
by jeidsath
Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:49 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading versions of Anabasis, Iliad
Replies: 29
Views: 12361

Re: Reading versions of Anabasis, Iliad

@Paul, @mwh -- I think that I've finally figured out the meter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub_2CAW6bjE
by jeidsath
Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:36 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Φληάδος
Replies: 6
Views: 4143

Re: Φληάδος

Does the thing really go on for over ten thousand verses?
The Combrogian Bard's books seemed to have been shorter than Homer's. He only produced 700 or so lines.

My book on Homer's "real source" will be coming out in July. I expect it to be a bestseller in a certain part of the world.
by jeidsath
Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:27 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Φληάδος
Replies: 6
Views: 4143

Re: Φληάδος

My ability to read the script is not 100%, but I'm assuming that this was written by an English speaker. Beyond φληος, there is "Εγγλισν" "Γρῆκον" and "λατὶν" in the note at the top. He calls it a "horrible monster?"

Image
Image
by jeidsath
Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:27 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

So, in the above, with its x - . - pattern, where does the rhythmical stress go when you read? On the second and fourth syllable of every group?
by jeidsath
Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:37 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Φληάδος
Replies: 6
Views: 4143

Φληάδος

Gentlemen, deep from within the manuscript vaults of the British Library, I present you with the Φληάδος.
Μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ ταφιηϊάδεω κάμβροιο οὐλομένην, ἥ μύρια φληοῖς ἄλγε' ἔθηκε Πολλὰς τὲ στουτὰς ψυχὰς ἀΐδι προΐαψεν...
It goes on through book Σ.
by jeidsath
Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

Menander, Oxford Book of Greek Verse #466 . I read through it once slowly, and then once fast. I'm paying special attention to my circumflex accents here, hoping to get mwh's approval. mwh: "and knowing it was iambics" I am still far from comfortable with recognizing iambics. I'm going to beg you f...
by jeidsath
Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

@everyone Here is some modern Greek to clean out our eardrums a bit from all of our artificial classical Greek before going forward. (I have more Menander ready, and hopefully a bit of a fix for "γαλήν’ ὁρῶ / γαλῆν ὁρῶ"). Odysseas Elytis @ariphron πολλάκις δήν δίδειν παρὰ νὰς στείβωνομας ὁδὸς γεὶ πό...
by jeidsath
Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

In short, I don't know the details of Joel's (or anybody's) personal style well enough to transcribe No worries about that. Anything you point out gets noted as something for me to pay attention to is re-listening, so it's not a bad thing to just say what you hear. I will transcribe your recordings...
by jeidsath
Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:06 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Should education be fun?
Replies: 2
Views: 1485

Should education be fun?

I'll get around to transcribing people's recently posted audio shortly, but I saw this on Laudator Temporis Acti: Aristotle, Politics 8.4.4 (1339 a; tr. H. Rackham): Now it is not difficult to see that one must not make amusement the object of the education of the young; for amusement does not go wi...
by jeidsath
Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Learning French and Greek at the same time!
Replies: 11
Views: 4763

Re: Learning French and Greek at the same time!

@scribo The only French I know is from speaking with my wife. I knew enough to get the first part of the joke sentence, but had to look the rest up (although with κακα it was easy to guess). But I can't find the original source or age, beyond that characterization "calembour artificielle est un gran...
by jeidsath
Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Learning French and Greek at the same time!
Replies: 11
Views: 4763

Re: Learning French and Greek at the same time!

Cette phrase-calembour artificielle est un grand classique de l’humour potache des jeunes hellénistes.

http://fr.wikibooks.org/wiki/Grec_ancien/Locutions
by jeidsath
Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:51 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

I'd advise taking my transcriptions with a large grain of salt. I listen through 9-10 times and try to write out everything faithfully, but I know plenty of people with a superior ear than me. Hopefully I (and all of us) will get better. If I spot something, and you don't, it's probably just me. On ...
by jeidsath
Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

Round 2: Menander I'm assuming that few people will be familiar with this fragment. I read it twice, once slow, and and once fast. And sticking to the advice I gave Paul, I recorded it after 2-3 practice read-throughs. You can cheat and see the Greek by clicking "Show More" on the Youtube page. Mayb...
by jeidsath
Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

@Paul (from http://archive.org/details/Anabasis1913) πολλάκις δὴν ἰδεῖν πάρα τὰς στεβόμενας ὁδὼς καὶ πόδων καὶ χεῖρων καὶ ὀφθαλομὼν <indistinct> ἄνθρωπους. I have to repeat a short sentence like this 20 or 30 times before I'm even remotely satisfied, and then recording the file, converting it and up...
by jeidsath
Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:03 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

@Μάρκος

πολλάκις δὲ εἲν ἰδεὶν παρὰ τὰς στειβόμενας ὁδοὺς και πώδον καὶ κείρων και αφθάλμων ανθρώπους.

χαίρετε φίλοι τὸ ὀνομὰ μου Μάρκος. ἐγὼ ἐχὼ δύο υἴς. και σείμερον δὴ τὼν δυτέρων υἴον μου πλούνειν τεὶν ἁμάξαν μου. Ἑρρόστε
by jeidsath
Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:33 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

I use audacity for recording mp3s on my Mac. I have an app on my phone called Voice Recorder that works very well, and will upload directly to YouTube.
by jeidsath
Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Re: Audio practice thread

I will get too your passage shortly, but for me, I have trouble with pitch accent because I'm plain not very good at it. I am neither very musical, nor am I the sort of person who can do fake accents for comedy. But here is a try 2 with better accents, I hope. EDIT: I still don't have my computer. S...
by jeidsath
Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:47 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8659

Audio practice thread

I thought that it would be useful to have an audio practice thread. The idea is to get practice listening to other people's audio, to record multiple versions of the same texts, comment, critique, etc. Here's something very short. A pun in Xenophon? Extra points if you make your recording (or a tran...
by jeidsath
Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:48 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: An MLK Day treat
Replies: 16
Views: 11088

Re: An MLK Day treat

Smyth is good for reference purposes but perhaps not the best thing to use when you’re first studying syntax. The earlier parts have been very useful, and full of gems, but the syntax explanations less so. It's difficult to find out what is most important by reading straight through. And sometimes ...
by jeidsath
Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:00 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Odyssey 1.1-10 audio recording
Replies: 4
Views: 1832

Re: Odyssey 1.1-10 audio recording

I've been waiting for this! Thank you for the recording. My favorite exercise for my own recordings, is to write down in Greek what I think I'm saying. I'm away from my computer, but I will do this with your recording on Monday. It sounds very good. But there is still something missing (as from my a...
by jeidsath
Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:28 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: An MLK Day treat
Replies: 16
Views: 11088

Re: An MLK Day treat

@mwh -- Following your advice, ὄναρ εἶδον· ἔδοξέν μοι ἐν τῇ πατρίδι ἐνοικοῦντα τὰ τέσσαρα παιδία μου ᾗ κριθήσεσθαι μᾶλλον τῇ ἤθει ἑαυτοῦ ἤ τῷ γένει. becomes ὄναρ εἶδον· ἔδοξέν μοι ἐν τῇ πατρίδι ἐνοικεῖν τὰ τέσσαρα παιδία μου ᾗ κριθήσονται μᾶλλον τῇ ἤθει ἤ τῷ γένει. Thanks for all the help. However, ...
by jeidsath
Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:43 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: News from Herculaneum
Replies: 7
Views: 7771

Re: News from Herculaneum

The Nature letter is very interesting. There are some pictures. While our first experiments have revealed only small segments of writing and are in need of further refinement, we note that once the XPCT technique has been tuned, the imaging of an entire papyrus scroll should not require more than a ...
by jeidsath
Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:11 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: An MLK Day treat
Replies: 16
Views: 11088

Re: An MLK Day treat

@mwh I will fix a couple of the errors that I see in light of your revision: ὄναρ εἶδον· ἔδοξέν μοι ἐν χώρᾳ ἐνοικοῦντα τὰ τέσσαρα παιδία μου κριθήσεσθαι μᾶλλον τῇ ψυχᾷ ἑαυτοῦ ἤ τὸ γένος. And to take your suggestion for a couple of nouns as well, and add "ᾗ": ὄναρ εἶδον· ἔδοξέν μοι ἐν τῇ πατρίδι ἐνοι...
by jeidsath
Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:01 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: News from Herculaneum
Replies: 7
Views: 7771

Re: News from Herculaneum

Nice. It looks like they doing some sort of beam spectroscopy, and digitally modeling the location of the ink deposits, which I imagine would have neat chemical markers, like trace metals, etc. Figuring out the exact depth of letters seems to be the real challenge. But they mention that Seales' earl...
by jeidsath
Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:32 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: An MLK Day treat
Replies: 16
Views: 11088

Re: An MLK Day treat

Hmm. I'll try to steal better. ὄναρ εἶδον· ἔδοξέν μοι ἐν χώρᾳ ἐνοικόντα τὰ τέσσαρα παιδία μου κριθήσεσθαι μᾶλλον ταῖς ψύχαις ἑαυτὸν ἤ ταῖς γένεσσιν. I haven't added Markos' "δέ" because it's not in the models that I'm using: Xen. 3.1.11 (and now for the revision Xen. Cyr 3.3.19). But it could well n...
by jeidsath
Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:24 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: An MLK Day treat
Replies: 16
Views: 11088

Re: An MLK Day treat

ὄναρ εἶδον· ἔδοξεν μοι ἐν χώρᾳ ἐνοικησόντα τὰ τέσσαρα παιδία καὶ μὴ ὑπὸ τῶν γένων κριθήσεσθαι ἀλλὰ ψύχων.
by jeidsath
Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:25 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Revelation 3:10: Roman Empire or Whole World?
Replies: 7
Views: 5664

Re: Revelation 3:10: Roman Empire or Whole World?

Victor is pointing out that a couple of letters were skipped in the quotation. Should be "ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς."

He is also poking fun.
by jeidsath
Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:00 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: ἤ in 1Corinthians 14:36
Replies: 40
Views: 23234

Re: ἤ in 1Corinthians 14:36

Two better historical Jesus scholars would be E.P. Sanders and Mark Goodacre.
by jeidsath
Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:20 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: ἤ in 1Corinthians 14:36
Replies: 40
Views: 23234

Re: ἤ in 1Corinthians 14:36

$10,000, a steal. How much do you think the original would cost? If ever its sex abuse payouts impoverish the Vatican—fat chance of that—maybe we’ll find out. I'm more interested in the complete works of Menander that they keep in the Pope's secret reading room. @Paul, re: NT scholar recommendation...