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by jeidsath
Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:46 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: αποθνησκουσι και οι φιλοσοφοι, νεοι δε τασ ψυχας αει
Replies: 8
Views: 3028

Re: αποθνησκουσι και οι φιλοσοφοι, νεοι δε τασ ψυχας αει

Well, see Roberto and Michael, who both teach me about the "accusative of respect" -- so the philosophers are "young at soul." That's not good English, so it has to change to "young at heart" like Michael does, or "have young souls" -- "young in the soul" is too far a stretch. Out of the different o...
by jeidsath
Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:13 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: ἁνδάνω
Replies: 13
Views: 7024

Re: ἁνδάνω

Well, in the particular case of ἁνδάνω we can can be somewhat confident of the aspiration, since we have basically the same Indo-European word in Sanskrit and Latin (and English!) with an initial s. That initial s tends to leave an aspiration when it drops out.
by jeidsath
Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:27 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Spina in Greek
Replies: 6
Views: 2548

Re: Spina in Greek

χαίρε ῶ Ροβέρτε. κατὰ Στράβωνος Γεωγραφικὼν ἔχοιμι τὴν ἀποκρίσεις-- μεταξὺ δὲ Βούτριον τῆς Ῥαουέννης πόλισμα καὶ ἡ Σπίνα, νῦν μὲν κωμίον, πάλαι δὲ Ἑλληνὶς πόλις ἔνδοξος. θησαυρὸς γοῦν ἐν Δελφοῖς Σπινιτῶν δείκνυται, καὶ τἆλλα ἱστορεῖται περὶ αὐτῶν, ὡς θαλασσοκρατησάντων. φασὶ δὲ καὶ ἐπὶ θαλάσσῃ ὑπάρξ...
by jeidsath
Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:12 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: ἁνδάνω
Replies: 13
Views: 7024

Re: ἁνδάνω

Don't tell me that there might be mistaken aspiration marks in the texts from those halcyon days.
by jeidsath
Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:43 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Metaphorical language use
Replies: 7
Views: 5195

Re: Metaphorical language use

Van Hook's The metaphorical terminology of Greek rhetoric and literary criticism is basically a lexicon of Greek metaphor. What is rare, I think, is for the Greeks to hit you over the head with metaphor. They prefer subtle. I came across this today: ἡνίκα μὲν οὖν ἐν ἀναπεπταμένῃ τῇ θαλάσσῃ ταῦτα ἔπρ...
by jeidsath
Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:53 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: αποθνησκουσι και οι φιλοσοφοι, νεοι δε τασ ψυχας αει
Replies: 8
Views: 3028

Re: αποθνησκουσι και οι φιλοσοφοι, νεοι δε τασ ψυχας αει

I think we cross-posted. But as I mentioned, I'm confused by the accusative τὰς ψυχάς.
by jeidsath
Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:41 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: αποθνησκουσι και οι φιλοσοφοι, νεοι δε τασ ψυχας αει
Replies: 8
Views: 3028

Re: αποθνησκουσι και οι φιλοσοφοι, νεοι δε τασ ψυχας αει

The second half is from a famous quote (ie., I remembered it from Crosby and looked it up): Ὦ Σόλων, Σόλων, Ἕλληνες ἀεὶ παῖδές ἐστε, γέρων δὲ Ἕλλην οὐκ ἔστιν. νέοι γάρ ἐστε τὰς ψυχὰς πάντες. EDIT: Michael, why wouldn't the sentence be translated like this? (I'm a bit confused by the accusative τὰς ψ...
by jeidsath
Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:47 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Iliad 13, 441-444
Replies: 57
Views: 33889

Re: Iliad 13, 441-444

In support of the lungs (Il. 5.40 and 5.56):
πρώτῳ γὰρ στρεφθέντι μεταφρένῳ ἐν δόρυ πῆξεν
ὤμων μεσσηγύς, διὰ δὲ στήθεσφιν ἔλασσε

πρόσθεν ἕθεν φεύγοντα μετάφρενον οὔτασε δουρὶ
ὤμων μεσσηγύς, διὰ δὲ στήθεσφιν ἔλασσεν.
Right between the shoulders. And both are deathblows.
by jeidsath
Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Audio practice thread
Replies: 38
Views: 8660

Re: Audio practice thread

@Markos (or anyone) -- How do the pitch accents sound in this? John 1:1-18 Any general (or specific) comments on the pitch accents in the above? One thing that this thread has shown to me, at least, is that there are a number of people here who can hear pitch better than I can. (No surprise, given m...
by jeidsath
Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:54 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Greek New Testament Interlinears
Replies: 3
Views: 2173

Greek New Testament Interlinears

I recently gave a friend this advice. Maybe others have better suggestions? For a printed interlinear, the most useful that I know of is produced by Jehovah's Witnesses. It's called the "Kingdom Interlinear" and you should be able to order a copy for free if you are willing to ask one of the people ...
by jeidsath
Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:29 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Iliad 13, 441-444
Replies: 57
Views: 33889

Re: Iliad 13, 441-444

The Oxford Classical Dictionary (Second Edition) has the following entry on SOUL. Pardon any typos. Apart from philosophic doctrines concerning the soul, there are traces in vocabulary and usage of comparatively primitive ideas surviving in both Greece and Italy. Savages not infrequently believe tha...
by jeidsath
Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:01 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Iliad 13, 441-444
Replies: 57
Views: 33889

Re: Iliad 13, 441-444

In Epidemiae book 2 at least the φρένες can only be the diaphragm: Φρένες δὲ προσπεφύκασι τῷ ἥπατι, ἃς οὐ ῥηΐδιον χωρίσαι.
by jeidsath
Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:35 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translation Buddhist phrase
Replies: 5
Views: 2442

Re: Translation Buddhist phrase

In English at least, the quote seems to have entered print in 2002 with Ken McLeod's "Wake Up To Your Life: Discovering the Buddhist Path of Attention," pg. 58. It hit the internet in 2009, and is now usually credited to "Dogen." From McLeod's book: http://i.imgur.com/5K0iUg2.png Going by the above ...
by jeidsath
Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:41 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Commentaries on Anabasis
Replies: 24
Views: 8878

Re: Commentaries on Anabasis

That quote by West I like. θεμιστῶς is what tripped me up, since I can't really evaluate the likelihood of the suggested copyist errors (beyond that it requires several of them at once). It seemed both to be rare (according to TLG searches) and an unlikely thing to say at the same time. But the JSTO...
by jeidsath
Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:49 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Commentaries on Anabasis
Replies: 24
Views: 8878

Re: Commentaries on Anabasis

Speaking of areas where it's not plain sailing, I've wondered a bit about Hellenica 3.1.2 and the authorship of Anabasis. William K. Prentice suggested that Themistogenes was a copyist's error . ΘΕΜΙΣΤΩΣΕΝΙΤΩΝΚΥΡΟΥΚΟΣΙΩΣΓΕΓΡΑΠTΑΙ became ΘΕΜΙΣΤΟΓΕΝΙΤΩΙΣΥΡΑΚΟΣΙΩΙΓΕΓΡΑΠΤΑΙ He has a long explanation, be...
by jeidsath
Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Key to Crosby?
Replies: 4
Views: 2086

Re: Key to Crosby?

Another Textkit user graciously sent the Crosby Teacher's Manual to me. PM me if you'd like the file. The Teacher's Manual turns out to be more of an actual Teaching Manual than an answer key. The files in the Crosby Yahoo group will be of more use to anyone looking to check their work. That said, t...
by jeidsath
Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Key to Crosby?
Replies: 4
Views: 2086

Re: Key to Crosby?

Yes. The link I found to it was here.

And this is the dead Onedrive link.
by jeidsath
Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Key to Crosby?
Replies: 4
Views: 2086

Key to Crosby?

There used to be an answer key to Crosby online, but the links are all dead. Does anybody have a copy? A digital copy of the textbook itself is available here: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.b4161701;view=1up;seq=7 It's my favorite traditional textbook. I tried going through it early last...
by jeidsath
Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Jokes in Greek
Replies: 8
Views: 4860

Re: Jokes in Greek

(For example, joke δ. on p. 264, where I think the idea is the pun on throwing down teeth and throwing down a rider.) I think that it's a variation on the "old horse" joke. Scholastikos is selling a horse, and he is asked whether the horse is first-struck [has lost its milk-teeth, 2-4 years old]. H...
by jeidsath
Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:52 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Homer & cinema
Replies: 10
Views: 5929

Re: Homer & cinema

I'm not sure that it's possible to transfer the violence of the Iliad to the big screen. They could get Tarantino and Scorcese and Ford Coppola together on the set and the result would still pale in comparison.

But I'd go see it.
by jeidsath
Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:36 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Nagy's "crystallization" model
Replies: 16
Views: 9046

Re: Nagy's "crystallization" model

Is this thread about the Nagy's model or about me? To answer quickly-- The manuscript tradition is quite straightforward. The considerable majority of extant Bach works are from the two shares of the inheritance that C.P.E. Bach had custody of. Is that so? Look into the history of our different manu...
by jeidsath
Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:35 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Jokes in Greek
Replies: 8
Views: 4860

Re: Jokes in Greek

I thought that Πόσου τὴν νύκτα μισθοῖς was either "How much do you charge for the night?" -- which didn't make sense since there didn't seem to be a punchline. So I thought that it could be "How much do you charge at night?" instead -- but I think that I would expect τῇ νύκτι for that. Now that I th...
by jeidsath
Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:33 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Jokes in Greek
Replies: 8
Views: 4860

Re: Jokes in Greek

You are right, not a pun. A Mother Goose rhyme? The jokes from Φιλογέλως are very low humor. The one on pg. 321 (σνʹ) that caught my eye turned out to be a fart joke, once I puzzled out the last two words and looked at the Greek in the footnote -- I need to learn Latin at some point. I'd like to kno...
by jeidsath
Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:06 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Citing
Replies: 14
Views: 4511

Re: Citing

I believe that it is from κυλίω, the Koine simplification with long ι. The forms given in the entry on Smyth pg. 704 all seem to be for that.
by jeidsath
Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Jokes in Greek
Replies: 8
Views: 4860

Jokes in Greek

This deserves another thread. Markos' pun with his own audio! μωρὸς, μόνος μολὼν μόλις ἐς μῶλον, μόρον ἐκ μορῶν ἔμμορεν. (An idiot, coming alone and with difficulty to the battle, received as his lot death from the (Spartan) divisions.) https://archive.org/details/AJokeInAncientGreek Some Googling f...
by jeidsath
Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:53 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Nagy's "crystallization" model
Replies: 16
Views: 9046

Re: Nagy's "crystallization" model

(1) it requires rhapsodic transmission uncontrolled by written texts to have been relatively static over the course of two centuries, and (2) it requires increasing breadth of diffusion as the poems gained panhellenic circulation to correlate with increasing strictness of adherence to a normative a...
by jeidsath
Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Citing
Replies: 14
Views: 4511

Re: Citing

I will try to get a hold of the ZPE Article, unfortunately locked behind a very expensive subscription wall. The Internet Archive has the Practical Guide together with the Preface -- which really is brilliant and funny, thank you. I had come across this before (was his proposal ever carried out?). R...
by jeidsath
Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Citing
Replies: 14
Views: 4511

Re: Citing

The entries for Κῆρυξ and Υιεύς in the Great Etymologicon discuss the length.

https://archive.org/stream/etymologikon ... 1/mode/1up

But what you're looking for is here (see line 42):

https://archive.org/stream/etymologikon ... 1/mode/1up
by jeidsath
Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Citing
Replies: 14
Views: 4511

Re: Citing

Meter is no help in finding vowel length for α ι u followed by two consonants, which is usually how we know about vowels not determined by form or accent. However, there are some other ways to find out. Dialectical variation or related forms of the word will sometimes tell us. Sometimes the only evi...
by jeidsath
Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Doric forms?
Replies: 42
Views: 13781

Re: Doric forms?

Golf clap...Spartans didn't tell jokes, but if they had, they would have been puns.
by jeidsath
Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:50 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Nagy's "crystallization" model
Replies: 16
Views: 9046

Re: Nagy's "crystallization" model

@mwh -- And don't forget my open forum thread attacking the Linear B decipherment. (I've since read Levin, and the whole subject looks even stinkier to me now than it did then.) But what can I do but read more Greek? I may still hold to all of my same wrong views, but at least I'll have the sound of...
by jeidsath
Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:09 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Nagy's "crystallization" model
Replies: 16
Views: 9046

Re: Nagy's "crystallization" model

I think West has pointed out that the Mass in B minor was never performed in its entirety in Bach's lifetime. Bach! I didn't think of bringing him up. Another wonderful example of performance manuscripts. The manuscript tradition there is extremely interesting, as his works were divided among his (...
by jeidsath
Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:10 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Nagy's "crystallization" model
Replies: 16
Views: 9046

Re: Nagy's "crystallization" model

There was one original Iliad and one original Odyssey, and I simply don't understand how Nagy can deny that. Who was it written for? Certainly not the literate reading public. Nor was it written to be read aloud -- it couldn't have competed with other oral entertainment in that format -- we know Ho...
by jeidsath
Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:51 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Nagy's "crystallization" model
Replies: 16
Views: 9046

Re: Nagy's "crystallization" model

Well, I'm certainly not going to write a brief for Nagy on a thread that doesn't even quote him. However, do have some respect for complexity. Take Shakespeare, a single author writing during the time of the printing press. Beyond the simple problems of transmission, there are plays that draw from "...
by jeidsath
Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:09 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: ταρ
Replies: 11
Views: 8484

Re: ταρ

still, anyone who reads it closely will see that it is filled with non sequiturs and rhetoric designed to make the reader feel unwarranted doubt." I did read it closely, and the doubts raised are quite reasonable, and I would have liked to see Katz speak to them. I did, however, read Katz closely a...
by jeidsath
Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:49 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Apollo Mouse-slayer
Replies: 2
Views: 2800

Apollo Mouse-slayer

After being kind enough to listen to the first 100 lines of the Iliad, my wife asked me about Σμινθεῦ in line 39. She said "it didn't sound Greek." I told her that it was a name for Apollo, but I didn't know any more about it. After checking the LSJ, it appears that Σμινθεῦ is not etymologically Gre...
by jeidsath
Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:33 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: ταρ
Replies: 11
Views: 8484

Re: ταρ

I'm finally doing a read-through of the Iliad (now that the meter makes it fun), and I was distracted by the ταρ controversy. Here is Nagy: At one extreme, then, West's edition tends to underestimate the chronological diversity of the Homeric tradition. At the other extreme, however, it occasionally...
by jeidsath
Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:28 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Doric forms?
Replies: 42
Views: 13781

Re: Doric forms?

There's no actual difference in value between BBC English and West country English, just that the former (literally!) has an army and navy behind it. I would be very careful with statements like that. In my ears, they derive much more from aspirations related to the nature of modern political ident...
by jeidsath
Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:46 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Commentaries on Anabasis
Replies: 24
Views: 8878

Re: Commentaries on Anabasis

The "οὐ μὲν δὴ ἂν μάχεσθαί γε δέῃ, ἱππεῖς εἰσιν ἡμῖν ξύμμαχοι" was what confused me because at first I wanted to translate it literally as: "it would not be necessary for us to battle, there are auxiliary cavalry for us" but then I realized that the "οὐ μὲν δὴ" seems to fit better with the " ἱππεῖς...
by jeidsath
Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:42 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Doric forms?
Replies: 42
Views: 13781

Re: Doric forms?

There's nothing to link this gene flow with language change. They are describing a migration event that replaced three-quarters of the ancestry of central Europeans sometime around 2400 B.C., and almost all of the Y-chromosome lineages. Ie., the Yamnaya killed everyone but some of the women. In Nor...