Search found 2972 matches

by jeidsath
Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 4158

Re: Prot 323a

If εἶναι depended on προσῆκον: As it's proper to all to share in this virtue or to not be cities. If εἶναι is independent: As it's proper to all to share in this virtue, or cities not to be. The subject-shift would be the problem in the first, but it seems possible. In the second case, the εἶναι πόλ...
by jeidsath
Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:05 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Γ25 - LSJ "εἴπερ" error?
Replies: 5
Views: 830

Γ25 - LSJ "εἴπερ" error?

Γ21 τὸν δ’ ὡς οὖν ἐνόησεν ἀρηΐφιλος Μενέλαος Γ22 ἐρχόμενον προπάροιθεν ὁμίλου μακρὰ βιβάντα, Γ23 ὥς τε λέων ἐχάρη μεγάλῳ ἐπὶ σώματι κύρσας Γ24 εὑρὼν ἢ ἔλαφον κεραὸν ἢ ἄγριον αἶγα Γ25 πεινάων· μάλα γάρ τε κατεσθίει, εἴ περ ἂν αὐτὸν Γ26 σεύωνται ταχέες τε κύνες θαλεροί τ’ αἰζηοί· Τhe LSJ has "if real...
by jeidsath
Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 4158

Re: Plat., Protag, 317e

Sorry, Joel, but I have no idea what you just said. As a native speaker of English, I'd say that I dropped something "under a table," but I would never say that I dropped it "below a table." Even though "below" and "under" would mean exactly the same thing semantically, I choose the one and never t...
by jeidsath
Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:46 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 4158

Re: Plat., Protag, 317e

I don't think that this is just a usage pattern thing. Michael indicates that it has to do with how the active and middle of ποιέω get used in general, and if so, we shouldn't need to search through papyrus examples to spot what it is. Though they do seem to confirm the pattern.
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:15 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Digamma in Plato (?) Euthyphro 12a - Burnett
Replies: 3
Views: 811

Digamma in Plato (?) Euthyphro 12a - Burnett

Euthyphro 12a9 Ζῆνα δὲ τὸν [θ'] ἔρξαντα καὶ ὃς τάδε πάντ᾽ ἐφύτευσεν οὐκ ἐθέλει νεικεῖν· ἵνα γὰρ δέος ἔνθα καὶ αἰδώς. a9 θέρξαντα B: στέρξαντα T γρ. BW: ῥέξαντα Stobaeus Apostolius schol. ap. Cram. Anecd. Par. I, p. 399: θ᾽ ἕρξαντα B_2 W b1 ἐθέλει νεικεῖν scripsi : ἐθέλεις εἰπεῖν B T ( νείκεσιν [smal...
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Apology 38c
Replies: 5
Views: 630

Re: Apology 38c

That's not what I see. The full section: οὐ πολλοῦ γ᾽ ἕνεκα χρόνου, ὦ ἄνδρες Ἀθηναῖοι, ὄνομα ἕξετε καὶ αἰτίαν ὑπὸ τῶν βουλομένων τὴν πόλιν λοιδορεῖν ὡς Σωκράτη ἀπεκτόνατε, ἄνδρα σοφόν—φήσουσι γὰρ δὴ σοφὸν εἶναι, εἰ καὶ μή εἰμι, οἱ βουλόμενοι ὑμῖν ὀνειδίζειν— εἰ γοῦν περιεμείνατε ὀλίγον χρόνον, ἀπὸ τ...
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:33 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 4158

Re: Plat., Protag, 317e

My Greek is less than slight, so I have to think hard about this. I assume this falls under LSJ: "5 freq. in Med. with Nouns periphr. for the Verb derived from the Noun, μύθου ποιήσασθαι ἐπισχεσίην submit a plea, Od.21.71;...." The English is "make mention", but that's just idiom. It's not really a ...
by jeidsath
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Apology 38c
Replies: 5
Views: 630

Re: Apology 38c

It turns out to be exactly what it looks like: "It's not for the sake of a lot of time that you..." You'll see if you read to the end of the sentence.
by jeidsath
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:23 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Stop and Frisk
Replies: 6
Views: 738

Re: Stop and Frisk

I'm not a fan of the site, but lots of people use it to share papers. It's free. Try scrolling down on the page.
by jeidsath
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: long alpha/short alpha
Replies: 10
Views: 959

Re: long alpha/short alpha

What would be an example of a verb beginning with a long alpha? I was going to say I've never seen one, but after a peek at the LSJ, here is one:

κ68 ἄασάν μ' ἕταροί τε κακοὶ πρὸς τοῖσί τε ὕπνος

However, I don't think there can be many.
by jeidsath
Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:39 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Stop and Frisk
Replies: 6
Views: 738

Stop and Frisk

Alexander Nikolaev's paper Greek Etymology in the 21st century presents a "detailed illustration of methodological and other flaws of [Beekes' Etymological Dictionary of Greek]."
by jeidsath
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:43 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: τῇ versus πῇ.
Replies: 2
Views: 391

Re: τῇ versus πῇ.

Marchant's apparatus says that the 14th century "Parisinus 1640" manuscript has τη twice, but is changed to πη both times by the hand of the corrector.
by jeidsath
Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:46 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 99a
Replies: 5
Views: 725

Re: meno 99a

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:18 pm
If you insist on using the Latin terminology, genitivus.
Are you sure?
by jeidsath
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:40 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Crit 44d
Replies: 7
Views: 670

Re: Crit 44d

My thought was ἀνάγκη is quasi-impersonal so how can μέλειν an infinitive (for the avoidance of doubt as to what it is) be impersonal. ἀνάγκη αὐτὸν τρέχειν. He must run. (τρέχειν is personal even if ἀνάγκη is not) ἀνάγκη ὕειν. It needs to rain. (Both ἀνάγκη and ὕειν are impersonal. Except in Homer,...
by jeidsath
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:52 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Crit 44d
Replies: 7
Views: 670

Re: Crit 44d

LSJ: "3sg. is freq. used impers. with the object in gen., and pers. in dat." I would think that all signs point to impersonal here. Also, Seneca, I'm not sure what you were trying to say, as of course an infinitive could be either personal or impersonal. It can have a subject just like a finite verb...
by jeidsath
Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:34 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?
Replies: 10
Views: 1041

Re: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?

Thank you for the link. Seymour is clearly replying to Ameis here, rather than translating him. Antonia Ruppel's "Absolute Constructions in Early Indo-European" (2013) has an appendix with a full list of what she considers unambiguous genitive absolutes in Homer (and some ambiguous cases), but does ...
by jeidsath
Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:24 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?
Replies: 10
Views: 1041

Re: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?

I would be more interested in their reasoning than their publication date, unfortunately not provided. The German Seymour based his notes on probably didn’t consider αλληλων as properly a “subject”, making this a rare or unique case (if the intro is to be believed) of a genitive absolute in Homer wi...
by jeidsath
Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:17 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?
Replies: 10
Views: 1041

Re: Il. 6.2-3 Genitive Absolute?

What does the referenced “§ 3 f.” say?
by jeidsath
Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:32 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Nuntii Latini cancelled
Replies: 2
Views: 571

Nuntii Latini cancelled

by jeidsath
Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:21 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Learning Latin only to understand Classics.
Replies: 20
Views: 1780

Re: Learning Latin only to understand Classics.

As a side note here: I saw some people still actively using Latin as a language for conversation. So, I thought adding "Only to understand classics" would mean I dont want to spend time by listening or reading daily conversations. But what if that sort of practice helps you to understand the classi...
by jeidsath
Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:07 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 87a
Replies: 19
Views: 1391

Re: meno 87a

I used to think that the boat building passage in the Odyssey was the most annoying passage in ancient literature (Od. 5.234-53) I've been teaching myself to sail on a small handmade wooden boat the last few weeks, and have found myself wishing several times that the poet had spent more time descri...
by jeidsath
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:06 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: των αγαθων - for the good things
Replies: 13
Views: 1165

Re: των αγαθων - for the good things

Smyth 1405-1409 on the Genitive of Cause is worth reading here. It lists examples like οὐκέτι ὧν οὗτοι κλέπτουσιν ὀργίζεσθε, ἀλλ᾽ ὧν αὐτοὶ λαμβάνετε χάριν ἴστε. Philo seems on solid ground.
by jeidsath
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:51 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 87a
Replies: 19
Views: 1391

Re: meno 87a

The most general construction that I came up with begins with a diameter of a circle A B, and with a rectangle drawn on that circle with corners A B C D. First construct an arc of the circle that is 8/3rds the height of the rectangle (AC = BD). There are many ways to do this. Then construct a rectan...
by jeidsath
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:12 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Why is the Herodotus Histories Book1 called Clio? doh!
Replies: 3
Views: 556

Re: Why is the Herodotus Histories Book1 called Clio? doh!

I think that mwh's point about Κλειώ was that the name was from κλείω = κλέω, "I tell of, make famous, celebrate".

No room for revisionism in Greek history.
by jeidsath
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:18 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ørberg’s Lingua Latina series
Replies: 49
Views: 7608

Re: Ørberg’s Lingua Latina series

I'm afraid that in May my youngest daughter stopped being willing to sleep except when she was held by an adult, and I'm only just now catching up on sleep. I made it through the chapter on the Minotaur, and haven't been able to make time for Latin since. Hopefully I'll be able to get back to it soon.
by jeidsath
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:16 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 87a
Replies: 19
Views: 1391

Re: meno 87a

I was thinking about this during the sermon today and realized that I had forgot to divide by two. The maximum rectangle along the diameter will actually intersect the arc. The equilateral triangle will have a height of 3/2 * r, and a base of sqrt(3) * r. The equivalent rectangle by area with a leng...
by jeidsath
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:09 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 87a
Replies: 19
Views: 1391

Re: meno 87a

a given rectangle built on the diameter Hmm. If this is a "construct the triangle" problem that could be reasonable. But if it's an existence problem (as stated), any rectangle that intersects the circle on its far side is trivial. The interesting case is when the height gets just beyond 1.5 times ...
by jeidsath
Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:59 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 87a
Replies: 19
Views: 1391

Re: meno 87a

Also, the largest triangle that can be inscribed in a circle is a equilateral triangle, which is made up of three isosceles triangles, which split into two 30/60/90 triangles. Each of those have sides: r/2 : sqrt(3) * r / 2 : r and area (1/2) * b * h: r^2 * sqrt(3) / 4 Total area for the equilateral...
by jeidsath
Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 87a
Replies: 19
Views: 1391

Re: meno 87a

λέγω δὲ τὸ ἐξ ὑποθέσεως ὧδε, ὥσπερ οἱ γεωμέτραι πολλάκις σκοποῦνται, ἐπειδάν τις ἔρηται αὐτούς, οἷον περὶ χωρίου, εἰ οἷόν τε ἐς τόνδε τὸν κύκλον τόδε τὸ χωρίον τρίγωνον ἐνταθῆναι, εἴποι ἄν τις ὅτι “Οὔπω οἶδα εἰ ἔστιν τοῦτο τοιοῦτον, ἀλλ’ ὥσπερ μέν τινα ὑπόθεσιν προὔργου οἶμαι ἔχειν πρὸς τὸ πρᾶγμα τ...
by jeidsath
Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:39 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: omission of article, Men 84e
Replies: 14
Views: 1351

Re: omission of article, Men 84e

I think that τινὰ in there supports Philo. Something like: οὐκοῦν ἐστιν αὕτη γράμμη ἐκ γωνίας εἰς γωνίαν τινὰ τέμνουσα δίχα ἕκαστον τούτων τῶν χωρίων Wouldn't this be a line from a corner to some corner that has cut each of the spaces in half? The OCT brackets the τινὰ with "secl. Schleiermacher." W...
by jeidsath
Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:54 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: -σθ- in 1st pl pres ind mp ending
Replies: 8
Views: 653

Re: -σθ- in 1st pl pres ind mp ending

Also see Kühner T1.B2.211.7.Anmerk for a number of examples. Anmerk. Als Nebenform der 1. Person des Plurals erscheint μεσθα, welches sich in der epischen, sowie auch in der (dorischen und) attischen Dichtersprache neben μεθα oft findet (s. Greg. C. 181 und 462), als: ἐδινεόμεσθα Od. ι, 153. τετιμήμ...
by jeidsath
Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:43 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 24-47
Replies: 31
Views: 2890

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 24-47

Somehow "utterly" seems to mean "not utterly" here. A different word might have been more appropriate.

Also, this thread seems like a terrible place to have a discussion about illegal immigration and the Romans.
by jeidsath
Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Seven Against Thebes 628
Replies: 3
Views: 457

Seven Against Thebes 628

κλύοντες θεοὶ δικαίας λιτὰς
ἁμετέρας τελεῖθ᾽, ὡς πόλις εὐτυχῇ,
δορίπονα κάκ᾽ ἐκτρέποντες ἐς γᾶς
ἐπιμόλους· πύργων δ᾽ ἔκτοθεν
βαλὼν Ζεύς σφε κάνοι κεραυνῷ.

Is ἐς γᾶς ἐπιμόλους a poetic inversion? Should it be understood as “onto the invaders of our land” or “into the land of the invaders”?
by jeidsath
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:32 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Long and superlong syllables (ει vs ῃ), and word order question
Replies: 9
Views: 903

Re: Long and superlong syllables (ει vs ῃ), and word order question

Perhaps of interest to you though is Martin West's calculation that a long syllable/position is 5/6 the length of two short syllables. I find it unlikely that vowel length was ever so regular. Modern languages are not. There's a base length from the mechanics of your mouth and larynx, but there is ...
by jeidsath
Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:27 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Long and superlong syllables (ει vs ῃ), and word order question
Replies: 9
Views: 903

Re: Long and superlong syllables (ει vs ῃ), and word order question

But ῃ must be even longer than ει, or else there wouldn't be a difference. Metrically there is no difference, and it's hard to know more. Some languages (e.g., Hawaiian) have extra long vowels/diphthongs distinguished only by length, but Allen suggests a quality difference as more likely for Greek....
by jeidsath
Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:27 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: EPISTLE OF BARNABAS (1st-mid-2nd c.) on Christ "in the flesh in/and a figure" (SOLVED)
Replies: 3
Views: 1118

Re: EPISTLE OF BARNABAS (1st-mid-2nd c.) on Christ "in the flesh in/and a figure" (SOLVED)

"a figure but in flesh"

No. τύπῳ is dative, not nominative. You're going to have to learn some Greek if you want to tackle these questions.
by jeidsath
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:09 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2516

Re: Ανάγκη

I also agree with ἑκηβόλος - I too read Smyth section a. which you quoted as an exception. I think that the Cambridge Grammar is clearer on δοκῶ/δοκεῖ personal/impersonal use and I refer you to 51.30. Smyth 1983 a. does not read like an exception at all, and in fact the Cambridge Grammar at 51.30 e...
by jeidsath
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:25 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Sanskrit OCR in 1980
Replies: 2
Views: 450

Re: Sanskrit OCR in 1980

Fixed