Search found 889 matches

by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:20 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 1814

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

@ἑκηβόλος I think our discussion has added way more information than I initially intended. I hope I'll be able to answer in a structured way. 1. I assume that if /bd/ are pronounced simultaneously then we are also talking about a single phoneme. Therefore I used writing /(bd)/. Another argument for...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:43 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Oxford Classics degree overhaul
Replies: 16
Views: 2120

Re: Oxford Classics degree overhaul

In so far as people get through their degrees relying on translations and without actually learning to read the languages ... Time pressure placed upon students by requiring them to read quickly creates the need for coping mechanisms. Those coping mechanisms tend to keep things simple (sreamlining ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:38 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Oxford Classics degree overhaul
Replies: 16
Views: 2120

Re: Oxford Classics degree overhaul

On the question of classical education; Language only programs pose a problem for satisfying the requirements of the various national qualification frameworks. Well developed subject knowledge, analytical and communicative skills can't really be attained simply by learning language. Simply language ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:21 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Which side of the road did the Romans drive/march/walk on?
Replies: 7
Views: 1726

Re: Which side of the road did the Romans drive/march/walk on?

Alternatively, there is the issue of status. When a cohort of heavily armed soldiers or a rich citizen walks down the road, people are more likely to the right of way.

Wheeled traffic benefits exponentially more from established conventions than pedestrians do, because they can't move sideways.
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 1814

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

Is it possible βδέλυρος survived as a learned word through written language and was reinterpreted as /βð/ while not in use in spoken language? I didn't mean to imply this but there is a difference between learning a word from written text or from the surrounding speakers. I see. I'm sorry, I misrea...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 1814

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

I believe the question remains what principles led to /βð/ from /bd/ if they are considered a single phoneme /(bd)/. Or should we analyze /βð/ as a single phoneme /(βð)/, too? For that we definitely would have evidence. The standard Modern Greek /v/, the earlier bilavial /β/ that you are mentiining...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:33 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 1814

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

I'm surprised to see that βδέλυρος survived until Demotiki with pronunciation /βð/. ... Is it possible βδέλυρος survived as a learned word through written language and was reinterpreted as /βð/ while not in use in spoken language? The whole family survived. It seems the sound is natural enough that...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:20 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 1814

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

Yeah, the higher pitch is unnatural. ... It's supposed to be subtle. Hopefully it's something that will improve with practice. I'm guessing that you are thinking about the pitch accent as you are saying the words out loud. Native speakers don't. Now that I don't think about the tones of Chinese, th...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:53 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 1814

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

In the pronunciation system where β and δ are stops, you may find benefit considering the corresponding unvoiced set πτ along with βδ. Regardless of other aspects of ancient Greek pronunciation, we are pretty sure that both sounds were pronounced simultaneously, something very difficult for English ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translation or translation?
Replies: 25
Views: 2819

Re: Translation or translation?

jeidsath wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:45 pm
Orwell's rules
What a narrow, "functional" appeciation of language!

Evidently, Orwell would not approve of Haigspeak, travel writers, Saturday morning food critics or Cloe magazine. The English language (and indeed any language) is much more than one man's narrow conception of it.
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:12 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Which side of the road did the Romans drive/march/walk on?
Replies: 7
Views: 1726

Which side of the road did the Romans drive/march/walk on?

Given that Roman roads were two-way, which side did they move to when confronted with oncoming traffic/people?
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:25 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 1500

Re: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

It all depends on what time of year. Look at that same hillside around March-April and it will be very green. This picture of סוסיתא taken on 15th April 2011 by AVRAM GRAICER ( CC BY-SA 3.0 ) shows what you are saying. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:42 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Oxford Classics degree overhaul
Replies: 16
Views: 2120

Re: Oxford Classics degree overhaul

Most language learning begun at school needs to be continued into adulthood to be of much use anyway . I'm not sure what this means really. They are young students about to embark full-time on one of the planet's best current undergrad classics programs. How could they not continue their studies of...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:22 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Queen of Heaven cf. Kingdom of heaven, ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν.
Replies: 3
Views: 928

Queen of Heaven cf. Kingdom of heaven, ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν.

This - the prevention of mis interpretation by intermediate students - seems to me the likeliest reason why the lists distinguishing accents may come in handy: between e.g. βασιλεία and βασίλεια , the greatest danger is that a student may simply not recognise the misplaced accent as they read: Ἤγγι...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:14 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Oxford Classics degree overhaul
Replies: 16
Views: 2120

Re: Oxford Classics degree overhaul

Does the Classics programme there support an ab initio strand for those enrolling without a background in the languages or is it left up to the colleges to provide extra tuition to get "weaker" students up to scratch? Most language learning begun at school needs to be continued into adulthood to be ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:31 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Anything concrete to back up the Ionian Migration?
Replies: 8
Views: 1418

Re: Anything concrete to back up the Ionian Migration?

almound wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:54 pm
  • BABY says, "... But some baby habits stick...
A poetic reflection.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:33 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 1500

Re: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

Thanks for the Latin lesson.

As an observation, for the Greek, πρασιαὶ πρασιαί is an image from the inhabited world of the garden set in the uninhabited world of the ἔρημος.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:39 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 1500

Re: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:34 pm
ἔρημος simply means deserted or uninhabited, Latin "campus" as opposed to "ager."
Which Latin word does "cultivated land" come under? My presumption is that the "good" land where plants grow well would be used by humans, and not deserted.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:35 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 1500

Re: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

Here is a hotlinked picture of Hippos (Sussita, Susita), a (not very green) location near Gallilee:
Image
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:14 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 1500

Re: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Matthew 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:36 am
groups of people contrasted w. the green grass Mk 6:40
Green grass? After a day of thousands of people in a desert(ed) place?

In my experience, garden beds have the bare earth between them, cf.
Mark 6:31 wrote:εἰς ἔρημον τόπον
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:08 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 1500

Re: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:36 am
πρασιά, ᾶς, ἡ ... Mk 6:40
The title and reference in the OP has been corrected.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A Couple Questions About the Meanings of "ἀνά" and "κατά"
Replies: 7
Views: 1176

Re: A Couple Questions About the Meanings of "ἀνά" and "κατά"

Perhaps I'm troubling a thread that's already been hosed and stabled, but to put a saddle back on it for trot round Mark 6:40 let me layout the following third question in the couple: The NA-UBS reads: Καὶ ἀνέπεσαν πρασιαὶ πρασιαί, κατὰ ἑκατὸν καὶ κατὰ πεντήκοντα. While the Byzantine text reads: Καὶ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:47 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 1500

πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

Taking this in terms of access that a farmer gets to the plants by dividing a garden into beds - ease of watering and tending - is "with aisles between them" a valid dynamic equivalence translation? http://www.readntg.org/Pictures/TextKit/GardenBeds.jpg Καὶ ἀνέπεσον πρασιαὶ πρασιαί, ἀνὰ ἑκατὸν καὶ ἀ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:23 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοί and a suggestion for John 2:4
Replies: 13
Views: 1907

Re: τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοί and a suggestion for John 2:4

I also have trouble seen the logic behind your conclusion that it means "I'm going to take care of this." One way to take the Greek in John 2:4 is literally "what is it to you and me?" Ie., "what does it matter to us." Ie., "no big deal." "It's not a worry for us, Mother. It's not the time for me t...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:30 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Ancient Greek word for "genre" - γένος?
Replies: 7
Views: 1648

Re: Ancient Greek word for "genre" - γένος?

bpk wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:03 pm
Very helpful, thank you. Aristotle's example seems like a pretty strong case right there for ειδος.
Modern Greek uses ειδος.
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:25 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Ancient Greek word for "genre" - γένος?
Replies: 7
Views: 1648

Re: Ancient Greek word for "genre" - γένος?

Was what I heard about γένος unsubstantiated or can anyone provide a reference for γένος being an ancient word for genre as well? Hi bpk, You've asked this question in the Koine and Biblical and Medieval sub-forum, so let me use a Biblical example to provide a background to the way of thinking that...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:47 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Song of Songs (gender question)
Replies: 2
Views: 893

Re: Song of Songs (gender question)

LyleBright wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:05 pm
Inveni quem diligit anima mea
mwh wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:17 pm
As far as the Latin goes, the speaker could be either female or male.
LyleBright wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:05 pm
Is spoken by a woman to a man.
There is no indication in the phrase of the gender of the person being addressed either.
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:13 am
Forum: Composition Board
Topic: Thomas Saunders Evans writing Greek and Latin poetry by age 12
Replies: 3
Views: 994

Thomas Saunders Evans writing Greek and Latin poetry by age 12

How were children instructed in Greek and Latin in the 18th and early 19th century that allowed them a degree of mastery of the language thzt challenges most of us now?
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:19 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Was Phillis Wheatley the first Afro-American woman to read Greek and Latin?
Replies: 1
Views: 381

Was Phillis Wheatley the first Afro-American woman to read Greek and Latin?

So far as the historical records allow us to know such things, was Phillis Wheatley [1753 - 1784, educated by 1765] the first Afro-American (slave) woman to read Greek and Latin?
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:08 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Ordering books online
Replies: 8
Views: 1185

Re: Ordering books online

Ordering from Europe, I have had very few problems with (Heffers and now) Blackwells. Even when the problems were not their "fault", they owned the problem, kept in regular contact and we came to workable solutions. Specifically, their packaging has never been a problem. The location of a bookseller...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:53 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: κόνδυ in augury Gen 44:5, and 15
Replies: 6
Views: 1166

Re: κόνδυ in augury Gen 44:5, and 15

Here is the Hebrew: גָּבִיעַ: גבע; like → קֻבַּעַת, Eg. loan word qbḥw ? https://en.m.wiktionary.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_N29.png?b816c https://en.m.wiktionary.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_D58.png?12f84 https://en.m.wiktionary.org/w/extensions/wikihiero/img/hiero_V28.png?f1179 h...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Hdt.2.6.3 κατακεχύαται plural?, & function of τοιόσδε τις?
Replies: 15
Views: 1783

Re: Hdt.2.6.3 κατακεχύαται plural?, & function of τοιόσδε τις?

Hylander wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:46 am
κατακεχύαται -- ..., reflecting the normal reflex of syllabic */n̥/ in attested Greek.
Is something similar happening in γεγαώς? Is the zero-grade of γεν γn̥?
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:45 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: κόνδυ in augury Gen 44:5, and 15
Replies: 6
Views: 1166

κόνδυ in augury Gen 44:5, and 15

44:5 wrote:ἵνα τί ἐκλέψατέ μου τὸ κόνδυ τὸ ἀργυροῦν οὐ τοῦτό ἐστιν ἐν ᾧ πίνει ὁ κύριός μου αὐτὸς δὲ οἰωνισμῷ οἰωνίζεται ἐν αὐτῷ
44:15 wrote:οὐκ οἴδατε ὅτι οἰωνισμῷ οἰωνιεῖται ἄνθρωπος οἷος ἐγώ
Was this particular drinking vessel, the κόνδυ, usually associated with augury? Is it a ritual vessel?
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:53 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Webpage Redesign and Login Problems
Replies: 18
Views: 3798

Re: Webpage Redesign and Login Problems

Last week I could edit my older posts. Today, I don't have that option. Restricting the editing of a user's older posts has (at least) four effects. First , it shifts control of intellectual property rights from the individual (user) to the board (administrators). Taking control of knowledge out of ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:23 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Some questions for Demosthenes, Against Aristogiton 1.
Replies: 25
Views: 2266

Re: Some questions for Demosthenes, Against Aristogiton 1.

Reading further, and to add to that previous question,

How would one describe in simple terms the difference between ἀνεξέλεγκτος (25.39) and ἀνέγκλητος?
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Attribute/Predicate questions
Replies: 8
Views: 926

Re: Attribute/Predicate questions

That was an "autobiographical slip in reading", (if such a species of animal has been catalogued???)... Much to the consternation of those who love or befriend me, I freak out from "surprise" or unexpected touching, and especially kissing - I read it as ἀγανακτέω, picturing that she snuck a gentle k...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:47 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Attribute/Predicate questions
Replies: 8
Views: 926

Re: Attribute/Predicate questions

"Most surprisingly", if the adverb of intensity is not omitted in summary.
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Attribute/Predicate questions
Replies: 8
Views: 926

Re: Word order in Longus 2.18 ἁπαλοῖς τοῖς χείλεσι

Female.

In 2.14, he had been struck (repeatedly).
τὸν Δάφνιν ἔπαιον
and then in 2.18 Chloe washed off his bloodied nose at the spring, fed him and surprisingly kissed him.
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:58 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Attribute/Predicate questions
Replies: 8
Views: 926

Re: Attribute/Predicate questions

jeidsath wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:27 pm
predicate position:

σοφὸς ὁ ἀνήρ ... "the man is wise"
What is happening with the word order here?
Longus 2:18 wrote:φίλημα ἐφίλησε μελιτῶδες ἁπαλοῖς τοῖς χείλεσι
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:55 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Attribute/Predicate questions
Replies: 8
Views: 926

Attribute/Predicate questions

Edit: The post belonged in another thread and was not a question.