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by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:15 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 2083

Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

My question is about the position of περιτέθεικεν in the subject. In what she says in the following excerpt Chilonis personifies pity. ἁψαμένη τῶν πέπλων καὶ τῆς κόμης ἀτημελῶς ἐχόντων, ‘τοῦτο,’ εἶπεν, ‘ὦ πάτερ, ἐμοὶ τὸ σχῆμα καὶ τὴν ὄψιν οὐχ ὁ Κλεομβρότου περιτέθεικεν ἔλεος, The negative particle i...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:52 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἔστι
Replies: 22
Views: 2565

Re: ἔστι

Clearly if “ἐστί” is not at the beginning of the sentence either on its own or preceded by eg οὐκ it is not emphatic. So the OP was confused about the meaning and form. LSJ uses the philosophically nuanced name "substantive verb" - ie a verb describing the essential rather than changeable propertie...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἔστι
Replies: 22
Views: 2565

Re: ἔστι

Do the rules or examples for the emphatic ἔστι mention whether there is only one or possibly more (nominative) nouns involved? The rule does not say. The authour is not supplying adequate explanation. (I can assure you Mastronarde has provided "adequate explanation".) Great. I don't have the book. ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:25 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἔστι
Replies: 22
Views: 2565

Re: ἔστι

The rule does not say. The authour is not supplying adequate explanation. If is unemphatic, it is translated "is" / "are" and it joins two nouns or noun phrases (singular or plural). If it is emphatic, it is translated "There is" / "There are" and it talks about the existence of one noun or noun ph...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:05 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἔστι
Replies: 22
Views: 2565

Re: ἔστι

If ἔστι is not emphatic and precede by a proclitic, does it still go at the beginning of a sentence? No. Unemphatic ἐστι can go anywhere. Its accent is dependent on its position. Its position is not dependent on its accent. If it is emphatic it is always ἔστι and it can also move about in the sente...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:48 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

Since it is central to this discussion, the unspoken assumptions about "Attic" could be explicated. Presumably, the compiler of the phrase book believed he was writing an Attic phrase book. He may have believed that the (Attic) Koine was a form of Attic. Lucian, despite his vocabulary, presumably al...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:39 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

@Callisper The extended replies to various points was not intended as a philibuster move to bury the points you made. Getting them out of the way (into another thread) to not distract attention from what you are saying seems a bit extreme. This is not a wiki (a virtual palimpset) where others can ed...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:36 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

@Sohtnirybal
Do you know the Greek alphabet yet? Can you read the Greek in the phrasebook or are you just arranging your learning material now?
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:11 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἔστι
Replies: 22
Views: 2565

Re: ἔστι

Do the rules or examples for the emphatic ἔστι mention whether there is only one or possibly more (nominative) nouns involved? Another way to ask that is whether there can be both a subject and predicate with the emphatic ἔστι?
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:59 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

On that basis you could dismiss seneca's suggestion as above the remit of the topic of this thread. (And you would probably not be wrong to do so.) I assume you are using "you" here in reference to people in general. I personally am not dismissing Seneca's suggestion or ranking it as above the meth...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:28 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

certainly wrt. the overall issue you raise, the book to which seneca2008 refers is exactly what you would want: a robust piece of scholarship that makes an effort to analyse such matters. ... It goes without saying that Dickey could have gone much further with her analysis. But a contribution like ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:49 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

I personally like seeing academically rigorous and relevant material being recommended, even if only tangentially useful to the OP. D's book is a sociolinguistic study, not a guidebook for usage. Studying something is always much safer than doing it. Trying to produce a language is an inherently hi...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:40 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

because it´s not a properly method to teach how to speak attic but a method to incorporate Greek in daily life, it´s to can express something happening in daily life in a language that almost is seems as an exotic language, ... They work in the same way as the book and the course I did work. How? j...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:26 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

Has anyone read Eleanor Dickey, "Greek Forms of Address: From Herodotus to Lucian" 1996? It might prove helpful. Forms of address only really make sense within a society. I call my son "boy", like my dad called me, but in another cultural context that form of address would have certain uncomfortabl...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:39 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Word Order with εξεστι?
Replies: 20
Views: 1843

Re: Word Order with εξεστι?

On topic, but not in the focus of the OP's question (or learning level), why is the following law formulated with μὴ + ἔξεστιν? λέγε τὸν μετὰ ταῦτα νόμον. “Νόμος φόνου δὲ δίκας μὴ εἶναι μηδαμοῦ κατὰ τῶν τοὺς φεύγοντας ἐνδεικνύντων, ἐάν τις κατίῃ ὅποι  μὴ ἔξεστιν .” ὁ μὲν νόμος ἐστὶν οὗτος Δράκοντος,...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Word Order with εξεστι?
Replies: 20
Views: 1843

Re: Word Order with εξεστι?

I thought any sentence with an infinitive would use "μη." I think yo are seeing that "μη " has to go with the infinitive. You have the right idea. Xenophon has τῷ τυράννῳ ἔξεστι μὴ πείθεσθαι τοῖς ὀρθῶς λέγουσι, "it is allowable for a tyrant to not take notice of the advice of those who speak correc...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Word Order with εξεστι?
Replies: 20
Views: 1843

Re: Word Order with εξεστι?

The basic sentence is, "The gods feel (have) anger. " οι θεοις φθονον εχουσιν" When εξεστι is added to the basic sentence, some changes are made. The subject of the basic sentence goes to the dative and the verb goes to the infinitive, giving εξεστι τοις θεοις θφονον εχειν. The basic sentence has no...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Word Order with εξεστι?
Replies: 20
Views: 1843

Re: Word Order with εξεστι?

ἔξεστι is indicative. Moods (indicative, subjuctive, infinitive, etc.) are differentiated from each other morphologically. An impersonal is a particular syntactic usage of a verb (ie no subject) that can occur in a number of moods. Infinitive ἐξεῖναι. Here is a simplification of Aeschines, Against T...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:58 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Classical Greek Recommended Word Processing Software
Replies: 24
Views: 3109

Re: Classical Greek Recommended Word Processing Software

Besides that my requests for improvement would be only small - for example, even the website I linked doesn't seem to let you type macrons, which I would like to do (at the same time as accents and breathings). And there's no letter input for digamma, yod, koppa; perhaps most grievous, no option to...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:23 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: CEFR equivalence
Replies: 7
Views: 869

Re: CEFR equivalence

Looking at the descriptors, the CEFR is a test of communicative competencies. Imagine teaching a modern language cut off from all speakers, just reading a dozen works, pronouncing the language in a few different way, and illustrating the life of the people in the books by showing showing photos of a...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translating "to" into Greek
Replies: 12
Views: 1213

Re: Translating "to" into Greek

τα παιδια τον τυραννον την μοιραν τοις θεοις επιτρετπειν πειθει. I was not sure whether to use εισ, προσ, or use the dative case for "to the gods." The answer book used the dative. How do I decide which way to use? There is no easy way to know which one a particular verb uses. We need to learn that...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:15 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

Quite apart from all that, the Greek itself seems dubious to me sometimes. Just one example is "εὐψύχει!" for "farewell!" (and I am choosing that from the one page I am looking at, the same one as above). No one writing a book called "Sprechen sie Attisch" should be using "εὐψύχει" rather than the ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:25 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

In relation with this last part I´m afraid if the english translations I propose are more flexive and less rigid than the idiomatic ones, what do you think? I apreciate if you take a look. Due to censorial policy where I live, we don't have access to archive.org, so I won't be able to check the Gre...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:15 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

Woww, really apreciate your help. I'm going to put my hands on work, thank you. My numbering is off by 1. For example, 43.1: παυτηνί -> ταυτηνί is actually in 44:1. I misread the layout of the Memrise page, i.e. I read "<43" as the beginning of a sequence "<43 ... />", ie "The following contains li...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:08 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 32
Views: 4011

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

Here is my proof-reading of 15 lists (42 - 57). I suggest you check what I think are mistakes against your other references: Title: english an Ancient Greek -> English to Ancient Greek 43.1: παυτηνί -> ταυτηνί 43.7: νὲ Δία -> νὴ Δία 43.22: Andshe’s -> And she's 44.27: εἰσελήλυϙεν -> εἰσελήλυθεν 44.6...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:56 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?
Replies: 7
Views: 1540

Re: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?

Markos wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:28 pm
a few which come to mind:
It wasn't my intention to use this forum as a place to list them, but in the apparent absence of such a guide, the things you mention are interesting nevertheless. Your presentation is balanced and non-dogmatic.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:53 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?
Replies: 7
Views: 1540

Re: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?

This kind of thing is often discussed in the better exegetical commentaries, which often try to give the history of interpretation on any given passage before offering the author's own assessment. Since 97.6% of exegesis is driven by apologetical considerations, such discussions may or may not be h...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:49 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?
Replies: 7
Views: 1540

Re: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?

The question itself needs to be questioned. My question is straightforward, needing only a yes / no answer. The "Idiots Guide to ..." series makes specialist knowledge available to the non-specialist. A barely disguised vague grab bag full of dubious assumptions need to be unmasked, one at a time. ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:39 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 1669

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

Again in answer to my own question, so as to get other people's opinion of it, I think that the following has happened in the translation process: The LXX translator had a text with חֽוּשָֽׁה The LXX translator rendered חֽוּשָֽׁה by πρόσχες a form of προέχω, in the simplified meaning of "hasten" tha...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:08 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 1669

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

Let me ask a question and answer it. What, then happened to the first part of the verse talking about deliverance / salvation (נָצַל -> σῶσαι) in the Vulgate? The versification is different. Let me rearrange the LXX and MT in terms of how the Vulgate gives its first verse: εἰς τὸ τέλος τῷ Δαυιδ εἰς ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:43 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 1669

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina / intende

The first part is the translation from the LXX, the second part is the translation from the Hebrew. I saw that earlier post, but didn't understand it correctly, I think. Now, if I understand it correctly, the critical version of the Vulgate interlines the two versions... The critical version of the...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:44 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?
Replies: 7
Views: 1540

Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?

I'm not staking a claim or signalling an intention to compile one, but is there a booklet or website that briefly summarises the way that different doctrinal schools read the Greek of the New Testament as the basis for or in support of their particular claims? The only example that I remember from m...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:22 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 1669

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

I think we need somebody to say definitively whether there is a form πρόσσχες that could have been used? FWIW Vita Barlaam et Joasaph 22.1 cuts to the chase and uses σπεῦσον. Ὁ Ἰωάσαφ δέ, μετὰ τὸ ἐξελθεῖν τὸν Βαρλαάμ, εὐχῇ ἑαυτὸν ἐδίδου καὶ δάκρυσι θερμοτάτοις, καὶ ἔλεγεν: Ὦ Θεός, εἰς τὴν βοήθειαν μ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:14 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 1669

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

It is not plausible that this πρόσχες could be the imperative of προέχω, is it? Except that Jerome tends to translate with intendere, a good translation of προσέχω, not so much for προέχω. @Barry, are you saying that intendere is a good translation of προσέχω? The verb in the second part of Paslm 6...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:35 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 1669

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

I like the use use to which Hebrew has been put in this thread.
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:23 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 1669

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:03 pm
Yes, it does appear that the LXX translators have a different sense of the Hebrew:
Just when חישׁ is in the collocation לְעֶזְרָ֥תִי חֽוּשָׁה it seems.
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:03 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 1669

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

Because there are two ways to parse this, let me bring this point up too:

It is not plausible that this πρόσχες could be the imperative of προέχω, is it?

ie. "Be excellent (surpass all other means) for my salvation."
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:16 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 1669

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

Explanations of the LXX rendering could range from mistranslation to having a different Vorlage. I didn't think to refer to the Hebrew. Apparently the same Hebew to Greek translation strategy was employed five times in the Psalms: Psalm 22:19 לְעֶזְרָ֥תִי חֽוּשָׁה, Psalm 21:20 εἰς τὴν ἀντίλημψίν μο...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:14 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 1669

Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

What was Jerome doing in the translation here? εἰς τὸ σῶσαί με κύριον ὁ θεός εἰς τὴν βοήθειάν μου πρόσχες Deus in adiutorium meum intende Domine ad adiuvandum me festina; The Greek "give attention to" is rendered in Latin by "hurry". Is that something required by the Latin language for this phrase t...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:33 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Oxford Classics degree overhaul
Replies: 16
Views: 2145

Re: Oxford Classics degree overhaul

... Canon. ἑκηβόλος seems to regard it as the sum of all surviving literature . I think more commonly it is taken to be a value judgement on what is "worth reading" and I took you to mean this. While this characterisation is clearly an exageration (or a caricature), it is unlikely that Callisper or...