Search found 169 matches

by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:07 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: A point about bucolic pauses in dactylic hexameter poetry
Replies: 3
Views: 2734

Re: A point about bucolic pauses in dactylic hexameter poetr

> tum longo nullus lateri modus; omnia magna I realize that difference. Here by the usual rules the syllable divisions are: tum lon|go nul|lus late|ri modu|s; omnia| magna but a major pause, at least in English, in my experience tends to cause a speech hesitation:- tum lon|go nul|lus late|ri modus;|...
by Anthony Appleyard
Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:45 pm
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What's the weather today? (Latine)
Replies: 1086
Views: 448762

Re: What's the weather today? (Latine)

Hic in Mamucio in Anglia per Pascham pluit, et pluit, et pluit, et stagna facit in horto meo. Et ningit in Scotia.
by Anthony Appleyard
Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:41 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: A point about bucolic pauses in dactylic hexameter poetry
Replies: 3
Views: 2734

A point about bucolic pauses in dactylic hexameter poetry

In Latin and Greek dactylic hexameter poetry, a bucolic pause is a pause at the end of a 4th foot which is a dactyl, for example: Virgil, Georgics iii 54 tum longo nullus lateri modus; omnia magna "meanwhile [a good cow]'s long flank has no limit; all [points] are large" I have noticed that in most ...
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:58 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Perfect active participle of τελέω ?
Replies: 2
Views: 1436

Perfect active participle of τελέω ?

The perfect active participle of φιλέω is πεφιληκώς, but τελέω is one of those -έω verbs where the ε becomes εσ and not η, by an 's' reappearing which drops between vowels. While writing some Homeric-style Greek poetry, I needed an perfect active participle form of τελέω, so I guessed τετελεσκὼς, as...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:23 pm
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What's the weather today? (Latine)
Replies: 1086
Views: 448762

Re: What's the weather today? (Latine)

Hic in Mamucio in Anglia, pluit et pluit et pluit xv vel xx dies in vix cessit pluere.
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:37 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Greek word needed for "levelling device"
Replies: 5
Views: 1958

Re: Greek word needed for "levelling device"

In Modern Greek the constellation of Norma is called Γνώμων . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_(constellation) According to Wikipedia, in Modern Greek the constellation of Circinus (the Compasses) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circinus is called Διαβήτης !! something that my neighbor has, and I a...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:56 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Greek word needed for "levelling device"
Replies: 5
Views: 1958

Greek word needed for "levelling device"

Greek word needed for "level" in the sense of "level-finding device" (Latin "norma"). See at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levelling ... nstruments
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:57 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: A Latin poem by T.S.Evans
Replies: 0
Views: 2475

A Latin poem by T.S.Evans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Saunders_Evans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Andrew_Johnstone_Munro T.S.Evans wrote a letter to H.A.J.Monro as a Latin poem of 39 dactylic hexameters, named "To H.A.J Munro, after receiving a copy of his translations into Latin and Greek verse". It ends wit...
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:10 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A Hawaiian Long Diphthong Pronunciation Model
Replies: 4
Views: 2348

Re: A Hawaiian Long Diphthong Pronunciation Model

Dutch has the long-diphthongs "aai" and "ooi". (I taught myself Dutch for two holidays motorcycling around Holland.)
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:16 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: tu/vos
Replies: 9
Views: 4560

Re: tu/vos

The first time that I was addressed as "thou" in ordinary conversation (there pronounced "tha") was in Blackburn in Lancashire, where the local dialect still keeps "thou". (I am in England.)
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:07 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ancient Greek texts
Replies: 1
Views: 1006

Ancient Greek texts

Compared to the amount of Ancient Greek prose and poetry that came down to us on manuscripts, how much more (and which texts) in proportion has been recovered on papyri found in Egypt?

Is there a full list of known Ancient Greek texts?
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:05 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: V's and U's
Replies: 30
Views: 37568

Re: V's and U's

Virgil would probably have written IVVABIT (no lower case back then). It really doesn’t differ from iuuabit. It is pronounced [juˈwaːbit]. But you’re also right in that sometimes successive VV’s are avoided in inscriptions and instead is written for example VOLT. Thus theoretically Virgil might hav...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:59 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: tu/vos
Replies: 9
Views: 4560

Re: tu/vos

I used to guess that "you" plural used as respectful singular, meant "thou and thy servants" or similar.
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:27 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: V's and U's
Replies: 30
Views: 37568

Re: V's and U's

I leaned Latin in school in the late 1950's, with U u as the vowel and V v as the consonant, and I got accustomed to it. Modern usage with V u as both, looks strange to me. I realise that u started as cursive / minuscule and then lowercase for V. The split between vowel-letter and consonant-letter l...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:13 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: tu/vos
Replies: 9
Views: 4560

tu/vos

In Classical Latin, "tu" is singular and "vos" is plural, absolutely, and polite use of "vos" as singular had not yet started. But when writing in Latin to people who speak Romance languages descended from Latin and having pronouns similar to "tu" and "vos", and are accustomed to "tu" being intimate...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: 2d pers. pres./fut. indicative medio-pass.: ει or ηι?
Replies: 11
Views: 5182

Re: 2d pers. pres./fut. indicative medio-pass.: ει or ηι?

Here there is need to keep track of the μεταγραμματισμός ; that was when they started to use eta to write long e, and omega to write long o, as far as I remember.
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: My experience in learning Greek
Replies: 1
Views: 1289

My experience in learning Greek

I apologise if I have caused too many queries when I discuss Greek; when I went to school, sciences had driven Greek off the timetable, and I taught myself Greek at home long after leaving school, and the book that I started with was Professor Pharr's textbook, which teaches Homeric Greek rather tha...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?
Replies: 29
Views: 15794

Re: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?

In Iliad 19: 362 "αιγλη δ’ ουρανον ικε, γελασσε δε πασα περι χθων | χαλκου υπο στεροπου", could "and all the earth around laughed/smiled", could "all Earth" here be short for "all people on Earth", and it could merely a hyperbolic way of saying that everyone in the Greek army's camp cheered at the s...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:56 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?
Replies: 29
Views: 15794

Re: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?

Thanks again. But another query:

One line says "ἐπεὶ γελᾷ μὲν αἰθήρ,". This looks like "after the sky or the upper air laughs". Does this have some usual idiomatic or figurative meaning in Greek? "If the gods are willing"?
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:41 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?
Replies: 29
Views: 15794

Re: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?

…. An οὐρά is a tail, so ἀπ-ούρας in addition to its proper meaning suggests “having removed the tail.” :twisted: :lol: He’s contrived to say the same thing twice over in a single phrase. I gave it away, or tried, with a verbum sapienti, calling it a “detail” (“de-tail,” geddit?). Thanks. I spotted...
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:31 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?
Replies: 29
Views: 15794

Re: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?

mwh wrote:The opening ὡς ἡδέως … is not ...
Thanks for the help. Someone to correct my errors is better than me having to flounder about by myself. By the time I got to school, sciences had pushed Greek off the timetable.
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:15 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Erasmian pronunciation and Omicron
Replies: 21
Views: 10420

Re: Erasmian pronunciation and Omicron

I prefer to pronounce the i-component in ῃ ᾳ ῳ . Pronouncing them the same as η α ω risks encouraging spelling errors. That is shown down the centuries in India, where Sanskrit is the classical language: the old custom there was to pronounce "ŗ" (r with a dot below, anciently r as a vowel) as "ri", ...
by Anthony Appleyard
Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:24 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Iota Subscripts
Replies: 11
Views: 6380

Re: Iota Subscripts

Ancient pronunciation likely varied with time and place. I pronounce ᾳ ῃ ῳ as a long vowel and an 'i' run together. (Similar sounds occur in Dutch, spelled 'aai' and 'ooi'; I have learned some Dutch.) Pronouncing different spellings the same, encourages spelling errors. When did the Greeks start wri...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:39 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Erasmian pronunciation and Omicron
Replies: 21
Views: 10420

Re: Erasmian pronunciation and Omicron

If so, this is the second time that scholarly Greek pronunciation reform has been sabotaged by phonetic change in the vernacular languages. For example, if in Erasmus's time, someone in England said that ου was pronounced as "ow" in "gown", he was right; but English was in the middle of the Tudor-pe...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:02 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?
Replies: 29
Views: 15794

Re: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?

I have ordered a copy of Munro's translations into Greek and Latin verse. Here is my translation of 'A Fox-Hunt':- As sweetly as if someone had a good fit horse, like-mindedly with hounds, I would follow the horse-mounted chase. So I would hear when a keen-scented [hound] looking at a trail in a woo...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:14 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?
Replies: 29
Views: 15794

Re: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?

σφριγάω is in my LSJ. Look again and tell if it's not in yours. Thanks. Sorry. I have found it. One line says "ἐπεὶ γελᾷ μὲν αἰθήρ,". This looks like "after the sky or the upper air laughs". Does this have some usual idiomatic or figurative meaning in Greek? I now have translated this poem through....
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:41 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?
Replies: 29
Views: 15794

Re: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?

In the second line, what does σφριγῶντα mean? It is not in my Liddell and Scott dictionary. (I can see that it is an accusative case of a contracted -ont- -type participle.) Likely "Molossoi" is used repeatedly for "hounds" to reflect British foxhunters' dislike of people referring to their hounds a...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:09 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Pronouncing iota subscript
Replies: 1
Views: 1589

Pronouncing iota subscript

How do you pronounce iota subscript? I tend to pronounce it, for example ᾳ as āi as one beat. I had to learn similar sounds (written 'aai' and 'ooi') when teaching myself Dutch for two holidays motorcycling round Holland.
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?
Replies: 29
Views: 15794

Can anyone identify a Greek poetic meter?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Saunders_Evans Thomas Saunders Evans (TSE) in the 19th century wrote much Latin and Greek verse, original and translating. One of them was in Greek about a foxhunt (pp 40-42 in the book referenced in the page at the above link). It has 91 lines, each with mostly...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:06 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Thomas Saunders Evans (T.S.E.)
Replies: 2
Views: 2506

Re: Thomas Saunders Evans (T.S.E.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Saunders_Evans He wrote much Latin and Greek verse, some original, some in translation. Much (but not all) is in a book "Latin and Greek verse", by Thomas Saunders Evans, ed. Joseph Waite, Cambridge University Press, 1893, and online at http://warburg.sas.ac.uk/...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:11 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Question about Porson's Bridge (and Devine and Stephens)
Replies: 12
Views: 8892

Re: Question about Porson's Bridge (and Devine and Stephens)

Cheiromancer wrote: ... Still, I am not sure how to pronounce γαλήν' ὁρῶ "I see a calm" in such a way that it would be hilariously different from γαλῆν ὁρῶ "I see a weasel". ...
The eta in γαλήν' ὁρῶ has an acute accent (pitch rising); in γαλῆν ὁρῶ it has a circumflex accent (pitch rising and then falling.)
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue May 30, 2017 4:16 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Help me interpret this line of Horace
Replies: 7
Views: 4628

Re: Help me interpret this line of Horace

(1) Nec sic incipies, ut scriptor cyclicus olim: "Fortunam Priami cantabo et nobile bellum". Quid dignum tanto feret hic promissor hiatu? (2) "Dic mihi, Musa, uirum, captae post tempora Troiae qui mores hominum multorum uidit et urbes". Horace may have preferred (2) because he preferred to piously a...
by Anthony Appleyard
Mon May 29, 2017 10:01 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Verb "rorare"
Replies: 1
Views: 2087

Verb "rorare"

Virgil in the Georgics etc writes plenty about goatkeeping, including using "rorare" to mean "of a goat, to produce milk". Am I right in assuming that that is a poetic use only? Is "rorare" in prose a weather-type impersonal verb only: "rorat" = "dew is falling"? Or what? From across the water in Gr...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu May 25, 2017 8:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Question about Porson's Bridge (and Devine and Stephens)
Replies: 12
Views: 8892

Re: Question about Porson's Bridge (and Devine and Stephens)

Here, - is long, u is short, = is either (anceps).

I read that in Greek in the trochaic tetrameter ( - u - = , - u - = . - u - = , - u - ), Porson's Law applied at the two places marked with a comma.
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu May 25, 2017 4:45 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: "verse only" Latin words
Replies: 1
Views: 2040

"verse only" Latin words

Please, is there a list of Latin words which occur in the best poets but should not be used in prose?
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri May 12, 2017 1:17 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Thomas Saunders Evans (T.S.E.)
Replies: 2
Views: 2506

Thomas Saunders Evans (T.S.E.)

Canon Thomas Saunders Evans (8 March 1816 to ?1889) was an eminent Latin and Greek scholar. He translated much English poetry into Latin verse. I have started a Wikipedia page about him, at this link: any more information that any of you can edit into it is welcome. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tho...
by Anthony Appleyard
Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:45 am
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What's the weather today? (Latine)
Replies: 1086
Views: 448762

Re: What's the weather today? (Latine)

Hic in Mamucio in Anglia est sol cum aliquibus nubibus cirrostratis. Rheum rhabarbarum meum iam florescit in horto.
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:30 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Flower arranging in Latin
Replies: 0
Views: 1439

Flower arranging in Latin

I have been reading through my Loeb English/Latin bilingual Virgil version, to brush up my Latin, and in it I have found 4 passing references to an unexpected subject: flower arranging (rather than merely mentioning flowers):- Aeneid XII, lines 68-69 ... aut mixta rubent ubi lilia multa alba rosa, C...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:50 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: What does "setius" mean?
Replies: 2
Views: 1534

Re: What does "setius" mean?

Thanks.