Search found 169 matches

by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:42 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Camp
Replies: 5
Views: 3094

Re: Camp

But, if e.g. some boys went on a camping holiday with tents, and afterwards at school were called on to describe it in Latin, likely many boys here have trusted their Latin textbook's vocabulary list and called their (unfortified) camp castra. But what would the correct Latin word be here?
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:36 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin
Replies: 10
Views: 5041

Re: Latin Tenses and Moods in Latin

As verbum = "word", what is the Latin for "verb", to distinguish from other sorts of word?
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:48 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin names for modern army officer ranks
Replies: 10
Views: 5110

Re: Latin names for modern army officer ranks

Thanks. For "sergeant" these are suggested:
* 'optio', but the word has other meanings also.
* 'decurio', but the word has other meanings also.

(Likely it may be a bit too unclassical to Latinize the usual international modern word as sergens, sergent- decl3.)
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:30 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Camp
Replies: 5
Views: 3094

Camp

As is well known, "camp" in Latin is castra , neuter plural decl2. This also means "forts" and is often found referring to Roman army camps. (1) Is it the only word usable when referring to a few travellers making an ordinary unfortified night camp? (2) In postclassical and mediaeval Latin, how ofte...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:58 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin names for modern army officer ranks
Replies: 10
Views: 5110

Re: Latin names for modern army officer ranks

For marshal, "marescallus" is not really a Latin word, but Germanic: marh-skalk = "horse-servant" or "man in charge of the horses" :: "servant" because he was subordinate to the king, I suppose.
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:13 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin names for modern army officer ranks
Replies: 10
Views: 5110

Latin names for modern army officer ranks

Are there Latin names for modern army officer ranks? The Roman army was organized very different from modern armies. Some officer ranks seem to have Latin origins: "sergeant" from "serviens"; like with "minister", a word meaning "servant" has come to mean "subordinate official", but its literal Lati...
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:25 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Nomina significantia
Replies: 1
Views: 1516

Nomina significantia

Sometimes (in Latin and Greek authors of fiction, and in modern fiction literature), an author gives a character a name that describes or hints at the character's mentality or deeds. I thought that such a name is called a nomen significans ; but earlier today a Google search found no uses of "nomen ...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:08 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Fluency in spoken Latin
Replies: 11
Views: 6488

Re: Fluency in spoken Latin

Id est.
adrianus wrote:Françoise Waquet: Latin, Or, The Empire of a Sign: From the Sixteenth to the Twentieth Centuries --ut suppono

Perbonus hic liber.
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:55 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Fluency in spoken Latin
Replies: 11
Views: 6488

Fluency in spoken Latin

I have a book about success or failure rates in teaching Latin since about 1500AD; how often do schoolchildren become fully fluent in spoken Latin, so that they could discuss a topic in it? That book is written rather pessimistically and keeps reporting low success rates; but it is to be wondered ho...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:48 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: "wonder"
Replies: 2
Views: 2310

Re: "wonder"

But one meaning of modern English "to wonder" has drifted right away from any idea of marvel and wondrousness :: e.g. "I wonder what excuse the smith'll come up with THIS time for not doing the work by the time that he promised."
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:39 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin pronunciation
Replies: 5
Views: 3454

Re: Latin pronunciation

When I was at school in the late 1950's. we learned Latin. One boy in my class always pronounced English long 'o' (as in "bone") as "aw" in "lawn". As a result of this and of British English arhotacism, in Latin he pronounced "amo" and "amor" identically.
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:46 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Opinions about Saturnian poetry
Replies: 2
Views: 1779

Opinions about Saturnian poetry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnian_%28poetry%29 What are your opinons about scansion of Saturnian poetry? I am tempted to suggest: Accentual, but count of syllables, or count of morae, mattered. Stress accent on the first syllables of words as in Old Latin. Usually 5, sometimes 4, stressed syll...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:54 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Autotranslaters
Replies: 7
Views: 3984

Re: Autotranslaters

I tried Google's autotranslater in Latin to English mode on the Pope's resignation speech, and it got the translation mostly correct. Today I tried it on the "lorem ipsum" mock-Latin text http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum and it produced this translation:- " This page is available, however, b...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:36 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin pronunciation
Replies: 5
Views: 3454

Re: Latin pronunciation

... native speakers of German who in addition to the r issue, have an irresistible tendency to pronounce e as if it were i, which really drives me nuts to the point that I can't listen to Germans speaking Latin. And elsewhere :: some USA speakers pronouncing English "pen" as "pin" and suchlike is c...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:33 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille
Replies: 48
Views: 54674

Re: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille

"... when large stupid folk like you and me come blundering along ..." "... quandoquidem talis ingens et stulta gens qualis tu et ego rustice errat ..." (p. xvi) I got the impression that that is not a good use of "quandoquidem". Virgil reserved "quandoquidem" for a very special and grand use in th...
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:07 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin pronunciation
Replies: 5
Views: 3454

Latin pronunciation

In teaching Latin (or other foreign languages) to speakers of American English, is there much difficulty in getting them to give 't' between vowels its full value and not reduce it to 'd' or slur it or omit it?
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:59 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: In hexameter poetry, is this a good use of elision?
Replies: 2
Views: 1927

Re: In hexameter poetry, is this a good use of elision?

adrianus wrote:With regard to aliēnōrum and eliding the last syllable, I imagine the spoken stress to still remain on the -nō- syllable ali-||-ēnō'r(um), not shift to the antepenultimate ali-||-ē'nōr(um). Is that not right?



Uhh, yes, thanks for pointing it out.
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:32 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Autotranslaters
Replies: 7
Views: 3984

Re: Autotranslaters

I just now tried Google's autotranslater in English to Latin mode, and I got:- The duck swallowed the frog. :: Anas absorbuit rana. The duck digested the frog. :: Anas digeri rana. The cat caught the mouse. :: Cattus prendiderunt muris. The fat cat sat on the mat. :: Adipem cattus sedebat in lecto. ...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:44 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: In hexameter poetry, is this a good use of elision?
Replies: 2
Views: 1927

In hexameter poetry, is this a good use of elision?

In one of my occasional ventures into writing Latin poetry, the topic turned to combatting poaching by weekend scuba divers in a shellfish fishing area: the fishermen's patrol craft "e furtu cancror(um) alienor(um) // inhibet" with two elisions including a hypermeter: "stops [them] from theft of oth...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:29 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Deponent verbs
Replies: 4
Views: 2512

Re: Deponent verbs

Some deponent verbs likely started as a middle-and-passive form of some now-lost active verb. For example with "sequor" = "I follow" : Greek still has the active form: 'hepo_' = "I am engaged with", "I am busy about" :: 'hepomai' = "I follow".
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:35 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Confused by 601 vs. 681
Replies: 6
Views: 5708

Re: Confused by 601 vs. 681

In 601 it says that omicron, by compensative lengthening, becomes oυ, but 681 reads that δαιmov becomes daimων and γεροντ becomes γερων (which is what I thought it should do). Which is correct? Is there something here that I am not understanding correctly? 601 also says that epsilon becomes ει. Why...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:20 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Advice Please
Replies: 16
Views: 18017

Re:

Sometimes picking apart a sentence is the only way to figure out what something means when you are a beginner....l I suspect that that sort of involved long sentence with words rearranged for written literary effect might have caused difficulty to a hearer (rather than to a reader) even to a Roman ...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:11 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin spoken at public schools
Replies: 3
Views: 2579

Re: Latin spoken at public schools

I now have this book. It is useful.
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:08 pm
Forum: Latin For Beginners by D'Ooge
Topic: perhaps im dense
Replies: 21
Views: 33007

Re: perhaps im dense

I was told off for using J in the Latin Wikipedia. But there is one place where J had to be used: in the Latin Wikipedia page about Islamic matters, someone wrote Hajj (the pilgrimage to Mecca) as "Haia" and I corrected it to "Hajj", as Arabic J (ج) is not descended from an I-type sound. A complicat...
by Anthony Appleyard
Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:38 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin spoken at public schools
Replies: 3
Views: 2579

Latin spoken at public schools

Here "public school" has its British meaning (Eton, Harrow, Rugby School, etc): see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_%28UK%29 . I have heard occasional old accounts of pupils at the big fee-paying schools called public schools, being ordered to use only Latin, not English, for general conv...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:25 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille
Replies: 48
Views: 54674

Re: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille

Another example of declining foreign names occurs in the published Latin translations of two Winnie the Pooh books: the name 'Pooh' gets a somewhat surprising heteroclite declension: nom. Pu, acc. Pum, gen. Pui, dat & abl Puo; acc. pl. Puos; and 'Roo' likewise as Ru. Voc. diminutives Pucule and Rucu...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:06 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille
Replies: 48
Views: 54674

Re: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille

The name Beorn (the man who can change into a bear) is translated as nominative as English and the other cases in Latin 3rd declension: Beornis etc. (This was often done in the Latin translations of Harry Potter, e.g. Malfoy, Malfonem, Malfonis, etc; Voldemort, Voldemortem, etc.) Gollum is treated a...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:21 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille
Replies: 48
Views: 54674

Re: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille

One translation feature that I did not care for was translating the character name Bard (Lakeman leader) as 'Vates'. OK, "vates" sometimes means "a bard". But "bard" in this meaning is a Celtic word, and when writing this part of 'The Hobbit' Tolkien was thinking in Germanic and Old Norse, not in Ce...
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:50 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille
Replies: 48
Views: 54674

Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille

Tolkien's "The Hobbit" has been published in Latin, as "Hobbitus Ille", ISBN 978 0 00 744521 9,
published by Harper Collins. I have a copy of it. Likely its translator (Mark Walter) will welcome any complains and suggestions.
by Anthony Appleyard
Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:38 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: A chance to shudder
Replies: 1
Views: 1210

A chance to shudder

For a really bad example of Latin, try this AD 1417 example from London, see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limehouse#Etymology

Inquisicio capta sup' litus Thomisie apud Lymhosteys pro morte Thome Frank.

("Inquest held on the shore of the Thames by Limehouse for the death of Thomas Frank")
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:38 pm
Forum: Latin For Beginners by D'Ooge
Topic: Pronunciation of words
Replies: 18
Views: 25025

Re: Pronunciation of words

There are occasions when spelling does not exactly represent pronunciation. Scansion in poetry shows these cases:- "iniciō" as "injiciō" "eius" as "ejjus" "hoc" = "this " as "hocc", from a prehistoric form *"hod-ce": for the 'd' compare "id", "illud". The long 'a' in 'pāstōrēs' is shown by a classic...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:04 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: captum iri vel capturus esse?
Replies: 8
Views: 3460

Re: captum iri vel capturus esse?

"capturus esse" = "to be going to take", future active "itur" is impersonal passive, "(undefined) goes", "a journey is made". "captum itur" = "(undefined) goes to (the) capture". "X captum iri" = originally "for a journey to be made to (the) capture of X", which became "for events to be leading towa...
by Anthony Appleyard
Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:46 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: What's 'eum' doing in this sentence?
Replies: 2
Views: 1546

Re: What's 'eum' doing in this sentence?

pmda wrote:In Pensa of LLPSI (II) Orberg has:
Romulus rex belli studiosus erat, neque eum pudebat casae suae pauperis.
...and he was not ashamed of his poor house.

Why 'eum' (acc.)? What it doing in this sentence? ...
"pudet" is an impersonal verb: "pudet X-em" = "it makes X ashamed" = "X is ashamed".
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:06 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Confused by 601 vs. 681
Replies: 6
Views: 5708

Re: Confused by 601 vs. 681

Greek spelling rules changed through time. Originally ε meant any E-type sound, and ο meant any O-type sound, and η was called "heta" and meant H. With time, and influence from the H-dropping Ionic dialect, Attic usage changed to: ε = closed E sound as French é or German long 'e' ει = diphthong η = ...
by Anthony Appleyard
Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:42 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Chp XLV- line 201 scansion
Replies: 6
Views: 5524

Re: Chp XLV- line 201 scansion

It seems to scan OK to me. Restoring the digammas, and writing long vowels as double, we get

kai min / phoonee/saas wepe/a ptero/wenta pro/seeudaa

The long-diphthong "eeu" is one syllable (compare Dutch "leeuw" = "lion").

The final "aa" is contracted from "a.e".
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Modern greek pronunciation
Replies: 8
Views: 4991

Re: Modern greek pronunciation

If you pronounce Ancient Greek as Modern Greek, you will make spelling errors galore. E.g. in Modern Greek eta, upsilon, ei, oi, ui, and eta-iota-subscript are all pronounced as iota. The same happened in Sanskrit in India due to a habit of pronouncing r-vocalic as 'ri', causing many inscriptional m...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:11 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Translation question
Replies: 4
Views: 1745

Re: Translation question

And Google just translated "The owl swallowed the mouse." as "Noctuam devoravit mus."!!! And "scuba diver" as "Aliquam varietas" :: I have seen the old English adjective "divers" = "various" in the Bible, but how does "scuba" become "aliquam"!?!? "The cat scratched the dog." became "Cati scratched c...
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:57 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Contraction in κεῖμαι
Replies: 8
Views: 4325

Re: Contraction in κεῖμαι

κεῖμαι is athematic, and its stem is kei-. In some derivative words it ablauts to koi-. It does not add -e/-o in conjugation.
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:53 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Search has been disabled?
Replies: 23
Views: 11766

Re: Search has been disabled?

Please restore the search-the-archive function.
by Anthony Appleyard
Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:44 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Titanic - Pervivet Pro Te Hoc Cor
Replies: 4
Views: 2676

Re: Titanic - Pervivet Pro Te Hoc Cor

A good song. I noticed that the song routinely pronounces the word "sapio" = "I know" as two syllables "sapjo". This pronunciation seems to have been routine in spoken Late Latin (as shown by its outcomes in the derivative Romance languages); but it does not show in Latin hexameter verse. I would im...