Search found 712 matches

by vir litterarum
Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:04 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Affordable Mediaeval Latin Dictionary
Replies: 0
Views: 927

Affordable Mediaeval Latin Dictionary

Does anyone know of an affordable Mediaeval Latin dictionary, preferably something that's in the $25-50 price range? Latin-German will work if there is not a better Latin-English work available.
by vir litterarum
Fri May 08, 2009 10:46 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Augustine
Replies: 6
Views: 2549

Re: Augustine

Those sound perfect. Thanks for the suggestions. If you wouldn't mind, let me know if you come across any other interesting articles during your seminar.
by vir litterarum
Fri May 08, 2009 4:54 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Augustine
Replies: 6
Views: 2549

Re: Augustine

I'm about to begin the Confessions too, and I know Augustine was influenced by Apuleius, on whom I've done a significant amount of reading and research, but beyond that I don't know how his style compares to Cicero's, Seneca's or Tacitus'. I thought there would be some reference to his style in the ...
by vir litterarum
Thu May 07, 2009 11:55 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Augustine
Replies: 6
Views: 2549

Augustine

Would anyone be able to provide a reference for me to the prose style of Augustine? I'm not interested in his theology or background, just his rhetoric.
by vir litterarum
Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:30 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: use of the demonstrative pronouns in Koine
Replies: 6
Views: 1954

Re: use of the demonstrative pronouns in Koine

Thanks for the examples. Isn't this usually the distinction made, in prose at least, between τοῦτο and τόδε, the former referring to preceding material and the latter to following material? What's the difference in the force of τόδε and ἐκεῖνο?
by vir litterarum
Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:39 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: use of the demonstrative pronouns in Koine
Replies: 6
Views: 1954

Re: use of the demonstrative pronouns in Koine

Look at the same verse from Luke which a commentator I found cited: μακάριοι οἱ δοῦλοι ἐκεῖνοι, οὓς ἐλθὼν ὁ κύριος εὑρήσει γρηγοροῦντας: ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι περιζώσεται καὶ ἀνακλινεῖ αὐτοὺς καὶ παρελθὼν διακονήσει αὐτοῖς. κἂν ἐν τῇ δευτέρᾳ κἂν ἐν τῇ τρίτῃ φυλακῇ ἔλθῃ καὶ εὕρῃ οὕτως, μακάριοί εἰσιν ἐκ...
by vir litterarum
Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:03 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: use of the demonstrative pronouns in Koine
Replies: 6
Views: 1954

use of the demonstrative pronouns in Koine

γρηγορεῖτε οἶν, ὅτι οὐκ οἴδατε ποίᾳ ἡμέρᾳ ὁ κύριος ὑμῶν ἔρχεται. [43] ἐκεῖνο δὲ γινώσκετε ὅτι εἰ ᾔδει ὁ οἰκοδεσπότης ποίᾳ φυλακῇ ὁ κλέπτης ἔρχεται, ἐγρηγόρησεν ἂν καὶ οὐκ ἂν εἴασεν διορυχθῆναι τὴν οὶκίαν αὐτοῦ.
Matt. 24.43-44

Why does the writer here use ἐκεῖνο and not τοῦτο?
by vir litterarum
Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:00 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: good greek learning material?
Replies: 3
Views: 2154

Re: good greek learning material?

I would start, then, with http://www.amazon.com/Homeric-Greek-Beg ... 674&sr=8-1; that way you can read the Iliad as you're learning Greek. For a more detailed discussion, see the post "The Greek Dialects: Where to Start"
by vir litterarum
Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:59 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accentuation of ἐστι
Replies: 12
Views: 3917

Re: accentuation of ἐστι

Kahn had the answer,modus--sort of. "But it is simply false that there is any more general evidence for orthotone pronunciation of non-initial ἐστί, no matter how emphatic or existential its force may be. If an emphatic ἔστι is often orthotone, that is because emphasis on the verb is often connected...
by vir litterarum
Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accentuation of ἐστι
Replies: 12
Views: 3917

Re: accentuation of ἐστι

Thanks for the suggestion. I've just requested this book. I'm not disagreeing with your translation. It just seems like it's rather confrontational and "gainsayerish" for Oedipus to say "even if it's the third best option" after the chorus has just said it thinks it's the second best. I was just thi...
by vir litterarum
Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How should a question be pronounced in ancient greek?
Replies: 4
Views: 2077

Re: How should a question be pronounced in ancient greek?

Voice inflection is a dicey subject for any dead language, as Dik says in Word Order in Greek Tragic Dialogue: "While it is in the nature of studying Greek or any other dead language that prosodic contours cannot be directly identified..."
by vir litterarum
Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accentuation of ἐστι
Replies: 12
Views: 3917

Re: accentuation of ἐστι

The OCT only has ἐστί. I just requested the Teubner. It seems that this must be the definitive accentuation. What bothers me is how scholars contradict themselves. Jebb edited his own text of the OT and accentuated it ἐστί, yet he translates it, " And if there is a third course, do not hesitate to r...
by vir litterarum
Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:34 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accentuation of ἐστι
Replies: 12
Views: 3917

Re: accentuation of ἐστι

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. The potential optative used by the chorus does express a feeling of deference. But I would have expected Oedipus, if he were intending for τρίτ᾽ to be predicative, to speak the line in the same way as you translated the meaning: "even if it might only be the...
by vir litterarum
Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:43 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accentuation of ἐστι
Replies: 12
Views: 3917

Re: accentuation of ἐστι

Well, ἐστι seems to me too definite if this is what he were intending. He could have said, "even if they should be" or "even if they were," but "even if they are," right after the chorus has made the assertion that they are the second best, seems strange to me. Furthermore, it seems to me to make mo...
by vir litterarum
Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accentuation of ἐστι
Replies: 12
Views: 3917

Re: accentuation of ἐστι

τρίτ᾽ is not being used as an adjective but as a substantive in this instance. See Richard Jebb's translation: Chorus I would like to say what seems to me the next best course. Oedipus And if there is a third course, do not hesitate to reveal it too. If τρίτ᾽ were predicative, wouldn't you need the ...
by vir litterarum
Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:21 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: accentuation of ἐστι
Replies: 12
Views: 3917

accentuation of ἐστι

Χορός τὰ δεύτερ᾽ ἐκ τῶνδ᾽ ἂν λέγοιμ᾽ ἁμοὶ δοκεῖ. Οἰδίπους εἰ καὶ τρίτ᾽ ἐστί, μὴ παρῇς τὸ μὴ οὐ φράσαι. OT 281-282 I'm just wondering why ἐστί is not accentuated ἔστι here. It is clearly just expressing existence, i.e. "if there are third things also..." why would an editor choose to accent it this w...
by vir litterarum
Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:20 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: catullus
Replies: 5
Views: 1458

Re: catullus

Imber Ranae wrote:
"we will consider the worth of a single penny."
"aestimemus" is not future indicative but present hortatory subjunctive, i.e. "let us value..."
by vir litterarum
Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:25 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: What's everyone reading?
Replies: 60
Views: 19213

Re: What's everyone reading?

Fiction: Ulysses (FINISHED AT LAST), Watchmen, House of Leaves

Philosophy: How to Do Things with Words

Greek: Sophocles' Oedipus Tyrannus

Latin: Tacitus' Annals bk. 4
by vir litterarum
Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:49 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: The Development of a Literary Tradition
Replies: 23
Views: 6290

Re: The Development of a Literary Tradition

paulusnb wrote: Hmmm. I am not sure about this one. I also do not know about this dichotomy: dogmatic or aesthetic. Did Homer's portrayal of Achilles and Odysseus have no ethical/moral effect on the generations raised on them? Well, the tragedians completely subverted Homer's portrait of Odysseus, e...
by vir litterarum
Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:02 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: The Development of a Literary Tradition
Replies: 23
Views: 6290

Re: The Development of a Literary Tradition

paulusnb wrote: I am not trying to argue that art did not flourish in Greece and Rome. I simply do not believe that it was as divorced from religion and the state as we make it. It was not really "art for art's sake." I am not saying religion did not have a profound influence on Greek art, but Homer...
by vir litterarum
Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:04 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: The Development of a Literary Tradition
Replies: 23
Views: 6290

Re: The Development of a Literary Tradition

Even if one considers Homer religious, his version of Greek religion was not set in stone. Euripides often chooses alternate versions of the same myths, and Plato of course completely throws Homer out of the ideal civilization. What would happen if some early Arabic author had thrown the Qu'ran out ...
by vir litterarum
Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:53 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: The Development of a Literary Tradition
Replies: 23
Views: 6290

The Development of a Literary Tradition

I've been doing a lot of general reading recently on the literary traditions in different languages, and what has struck me is how many are tied directly and inextricably to religion. The Hebrew, Sanskrit, and Arabic literary traditions are all defined by their relation to one important religious te...
by vir litterarum
Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Scansion Question
Replies: 4
Views: 1753

Re: Scansion Question

wow. I knew resolution to uu- was fairly common, but I didn't know uuu occurred in tragedy at least. Are you saying the first syllable of Apollwn is long then?
by vir litterarum
Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:43 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Scansion Question
Replies: 4
Views: 1753

Scansion Question

Τειρεσίας οὐ γάρ σε μοῖρα πρός γ᾽ ἐμοῦ πεσεῖν, ἐπεὶ ἱκανὸς Ἀπόλλων, ᾧ τάδ᾽ ἐκπρᾶξαι μέλει. OT 376-377 I don't understand how the scansion of 377 is working: ἱκανὸς appears to be 3 consecutive short syllables(LSJ does not state that the quantity of the penultimate syllable is variable), and, from wha...
by vir litterarum
Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:04 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: PLEASE HELP
Replies: 1
Views: 745

Re: PLEASE HELP

In general the Romans were averse to abstract phraseology like this. I would just say, assuming you want to say this in the nominative, "infinitus amor." I would not make "amor" a genitive dependent on the neuter noun "infinitum."
by vir litterarum
Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:00 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: who can make sens
Replies: 7
Views: 2676

Re: who can make sens

You would need to provide more context, but it seems the phrase means "he/she/it was in travail of a mountain, then begot it." i.e. after struggling in the birthing process, he/she/it was able to give birth to a mountain. however, you really need to provide more context.
by vir litterarum
Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Textbook versus authentic greek
Replies: 11
Views: 4007

Re: Textbook versus authentic greek

Thesaurus wrote You can tell by the non-linear style of reading that this method cultivates that it does not resemble "reading" as we think of it in modern languages. This idea is perhaps the most important for facilitating the ability to read Greek texts instead of translating them. Don't go throug...
by vir litterarum
Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:05 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Textbook versus authentic greek
Replies: 11
Views: 4007

Re: Textbook versus authentic greek

The more you read classical texts, the more you'll come to realize just how important utilizing the context of a passage is to comprehending its meaning. I've been studying Latin for over five years now, and Greek for over three, and by this point (and I think everybody in this forum would concur wi...
by vir litterarum
Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:40 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun
Replies: 10
Views: 2746

Re: Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun

Julia wrote I am suggesting that "defuncto," though a participial adjective, is functioning as the noun here so there is no need to go further. If it were functioning as a substantive, it would need to be translated with "with the dead body not even buried," not "with the one having died and not yet...
by vir litterarum
Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:22 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: πεντακοσιομέδιμνος
Replies: 8
Views: 2778

Re: πεντακοσιομέδιμνος

I've never been able to get a clear answer on the grave accent. It seems the issue is still moot. Besides the suppression hypothesis, I've also heard that the acute accent represents a raise in pitch equivalent to about a musical fifth, and the grave approximately a musical third. Your explanation m...
by vir litterarum
Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:39 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: πεντακοσιομέδιμνος
Replies: 8
Views: 2778

Re: πεντακοσιομέδιμνος

So would a compound such as λοπαδο­τεμαχο­σελαχο­γαλεο­κρανιο­λειψανο­δριμ­υπο­τριμματο­σιλφιο­καραβο­μελιτο­κατακεχυ­μενο­κιχλ­επι­κοσσυφο­φαττο­περιστερ­αλεκτρυον­οπτο­κεφαλλιο­κιγκλο­πελειο­λαγῳο­σιραιο­βαφη­τραγανο­πτερύγων be pronounced without any changes of pitch until the penultimate syllable?
by vir litterarum
Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:15 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: πεντακοσιομέδιμνος
Replies: 8
Views: 2778

Re: πεντακοσιομέδιμνος

I'm just wondering what the syllabic constraint on the formation of compounds is in Greek. In German, compounds of quite a significant length can be formed, but it uses a pitch accent, so the rules are different I'm sure. Is there a limit for how long Greek compounds can be?
by vir litterarum
Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:57 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun
Replies: 10
Views: 2746

Re: Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun

right, so you're translating it, "also with dead body not even buried"? however, you're taking "necdum" as an adverb, whereas this commentary and the Loeb take it as equaling "et nondum," i.e. "even with [Drusus] dead and not yet buried."
by vir litterarum
Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:32 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun
Replies: 10
Views: 2746

Re: Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun

This is possible, but all of the commentaries and translations I have seen take it as an abl. abs., e.g.


http://books.google.com/books?id=OsfsA4 ... kATp94TBDQ
by vir litterarum
Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:48 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun
Replies: 10
Views: 2746

Re: Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun

You're right that it seems that "eo" must be understood from context, but I have not seen this occur before where the nominal element of an ablative absolute must be understood from context, nor have I seen instances cited in Latin grammars, except those such as you referenced in A&G which seem qual...
by vir litterarum
Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:40 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun
Replies: 10
Views: 2746

Re: Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun

I agree that it is temporal, but it seems to me that equating it to an abl. of manner here is a stretch: all of the examples in 419c are either impersonal or referring to objects, not people.
by vir litterarum
Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:31 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun
Replies: 10
Views: 2746

Ablative absolute without a noun or pronoun

ceterum Tiberius per omnis valetudinis eius[Drusus'] dies, nullo metu an ut firmitudinem animi ostentaret, etiam defuncto necdum sepulto , curiam ingressus est. Tac. Annales 4.8 Can anyone give me some sort of grammatical reference to this usage of an ablative absolute where the noun or pronoun must...
by vir litterarum
Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: πεντακοσιομέδιμνος
Replies: 8
Views: 2778

πεντακοσιομέδιμνος

I was just curious about the pronunciation of compounds as long as this one. Greeks generally had an aversion to more than three consecutive unaccented syllables, so wouldn't the pronunciation of a word such as this with only one accent be awkward to them? would there be some sort of change of pitch...
by vir litterarum
Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:26 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ab Urbe Condita 21.25
Replies: 11
Views: 2760

Re: Ab Urbe Condita 21.25

modus.irrealis wrote About coeptum, isn't Latin one of the languages that when "begin" is used with a passive infinitive, it can also become passive? I read it here as being "simulari coeptum [est] de pace agi" with a (double?) impersonal passive, to mean something like "there began feigning that t...
by vir litterarum
Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:12 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ab Urbe Condita 21.25
Replies: 11
Views: 2760

Re: Ab Urbe Condita 21.25

I know the OLD says that it should be translated as "and also," but I just don't understand how "eadem" came to be used adverbially, especially when it still agrees with a noun in number, gender, and case.