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by Paul Derouda
Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:52 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Stupid Sappho question
Replies: 5
Views: 2385

Re: Stupid Sappho question

That's what I was suspecting too. So is it a particularity of Aeolic that the forms aren't nom. ἀντιάων and acc. ἀντιάοντα? Where could I read more about this? (I've read Annis' great introduction to Lesbian Aeolic, but I couldn't find the answer there.)
by Paul Derouda
Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:33 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Which type of Greek?
Replies: 14
Views: 6638

Re: Which type of Greek?

Hmm... I'm sorry to disagree, but I wouldn't recommend a beginner to spend too much time listening to audio recordings of Homer, though this would be the right approach for living languages. The whole issue of reconstructed pronunciation is just too controversial. Keep it simple. Just learn Homeric ...
by Paul Derouda
Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Stupid Sappho question
Replies: 5
Views: 2385

Stupid Sappho question

This is probably a stupid question, but it bothers me so I'm posting this... Sappho fr. 17 line 9 reads (Sappho is addressing Hera): πρὶν σὲ καὶ Δί' ἀντίαον κάλεσσαι My Loeb translates "until they called on you and Zeus the god of suppliants". I guess "god of suppliants" comes from ἀντίαον. I can't ...
by Paul Derouda
Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:02 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Which type of Greek?
Replies: 14
Views: 6638

Re: Which type of Greek?

There is not one single Ancient Greek but different dialects from different times and places. The ones that are commonly studied are Homeric Greek, Attic Greek and Koine Greek. Epic Greek is more or less the same as Homeric Greek. If you want to read Homer, this is obviously what you should learn ;)...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:59 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Homer's Odyssey workbook
Replies: 4
Views: 4639

Re: Homer's Odyssey workbook

At least I'm not aware of any. But Pharr's is a good book, anything that is says applies for the Odyssey too. There's practically no difference between "Iliadic Greek" and "Odyssean Greek". Pharr includes the text of the first book of the Iliad. Once you have read the book through and master all the...
by Paul Derouda
Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:03 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: M. L. West's edition of the Iliad
Replies: 45
Views: 40349

Re: M. L. West's edition of the Iliad

It's an excellent edition. First of all, he has collated a huge number of new papyri, about 700. I think the "controversy" (if there is one) is about it being a bold edition. West's interpretes the scholia in a new way (the relative role of Aristarchus and Didymus) and has his own ideas about orthog...
by Paul Derouda
Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Homeric Greek dictionary
Replies: 2
Views: 2340

Re: Homeric Greek dictionary

I have LSJ, Middle Liddell, Little Liddell (I don't need all three, but each time I thought I needed an upgrade... ;) ), Cunliffe and Autenrieth. If you have Cunliffe, you don't need LSJ, Middle Liddell or Little Liddell to read Homer. I agree with jswilkmd that if you need one dictionnary to read j...
by Paul Derouda
Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:46 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Autenrieth vs. Cunliffe
Replies: 5
Views: 2325

Re: Autenrieth vs. Cunliffe

Autenrieth is more of a beginner's dictionnary. The definitions are very short. It's an old book, from the XIXth century, and actually it's a translation of German original work. There are nice illustrations, "plates", that help you understand what those ship part names and other technical Homeric t...
by Paul Derouda
Thu May 05, 2011 4:03 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Time to buy a lexicon/dictionary
Replies: 5
Views: 2819

Re: Time to buy a lexicon/dictionary

If you're a happy owner of iPhone, you should definitely get Lexiphanes. 3 euros in the App Store. Lexiphanes is basically LSJ + Autenrieth's Homeric Dictionnary, which after installing you can access on your iPhone without being online. That's what I call a pocket dictionnary. (I guess it works wit...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:49 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Chp XLV- line 201 scansion
Replies: 6
Views: 5533

Re: Chp XLV- line 201 scansion

As a side note: does anyone (Annis?) know if all the cases in Homer where mute + liquid leaves the previous short syllable short can be explained by historical linguistics? Like ποταύδα -> προσηύδα. βροτός can also be "explained away", as the original form (long time before Homer) is believed to hav...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:28 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Chp XLV- line 201 scansion
Replies: 6
Views: 5533

Re: Chp XLV- line 201 scansion

The relevant section in Pharr is §524. The point is, in this situation after a short vowel (here α) and mute consonant (here π), a liquid consonant (ρ) can be kind of ignored if the metre requires. The first consonant must be a mute (π β φ τ δ θ κ γ χ) and the second must be liquid (ρ λ μ ν) for the...
by Paul Derouda
Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Sanskrit after Homer?
Replies: 8
Views: 4914

Re: Sanskrit after Homer?

I checked Winthrop Sargeant's on Amazon, and it looks pretty good. Unfortunately, it was only possible to "look inside" the introduction, but it seemed like the kind of thing I have searching. (I wonder how come that people at Amazon don't understand that we want to look inside the actual text, not ...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:59 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Sanskrit after Homer?
Replies: 8
Views: 4914

Re: Sanskrit after Homer?

Ok, now I'm waiting for some BvG stuff from Amazon... (the relevant Clay Sanskrit Library text and a commented edition from someone called R. C. Zaehner.) Got some homework to do now! That Dragon book is already on my "books I'm going to read some day" list! At the moment I'm actually reading, whene...
by Paul Derouda
Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:56 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Sanskrit after Homer?
Replies: 8
Views: 4914

Re: Sanskrit after Homer?

What modern Scholiastic literature is citing the MBH in relation to Homer? I'm curious.. Well, "great deal" was an overstatement, but there must have be something I've read, otherwise I wouldn't have got the idea of reading MBh in the first place... I just don't remember what it was... I have a vag...
by Paul Derouda
Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Sanskrit after Homer?
Replies: 8
Views: 4914

Re: Sanskrit after Homer?

Ok, thanks a lot, really! Can you recommend any particular student edition(s) of the Bhagavad Gita? (Are there student editions of (parts of) the Ramayana?) Well, I was aware that the MBh and Ramayana are not the oldest, but I've understood that learning Vedic straightaway isn't easy. Anyway, I am r...
by Paul Derouda
Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Sanskrit after Homer?
Replies: 8
Views: 4914

Sanskrit after Homer?

Not really a question about Greek, but I'm still asking this, as I couldn't find any good Sanskrit forum... I've been reading Greek quite a bit, especially Homer. My Greek epic studies have made me interested about Sanskrit too. At present I'm only interested (I think...) about the Epics, the Mahabh...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:34 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ionic declension?
Replies: 4
Views: 1515

Re: Ionic declension?

Hp. = Hippocrates
by Paul Derouda
Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:26 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I need help with a phrase
Replies: 12
Views: 3885

Re: I need help with a phrase

I think we need to keep in mind that this is a short proverb. Greek does not require definite articles to make something 'definite', even with abstract nouns. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the NT use abstract nouns and infinitives without articles at times? The article becomes assumed from co...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:26 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I need help with a phrase
Replies: 12
Views: 3885

Re: I need help with a phrase

Thinking a bit further, the article often actually serves to point which word is subject and which word predicate - something that in English is expressed with word order. "η αγαπη διδοναι" or "διδοναι η αγαπη" - love is giving "το διδοναι αγαπη" or "αγαπη το διδοναι" - giving is love Now if I'm wro...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:40 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I need help with a phrase
Replies: 12
Views: 3885

Re: I need help with a phrase

...and "η αγαπη διδοναι" would be alright too, in my opinion, but I prefer the two previous ones.

Now this is analogous to "το ζην Χριστοσ". Calvinist got subject and predicate mixed up in his example.
by Paul Derouda
Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I need help with a phrase
Replies: 12
Views: 3885

Re: I need help with a phrase

I'd still leave διδοναι without the article... I must confess I'm not so good with Attic/Koine, I mostly know Homeric Greek, but still I think I'm right ;) So I'd say either "η αγαπη διδοναι εστιν" or "διδοναι η αγαπη". Check Goodwin's Grammar: http://www.textkit.com/learn/ID/100/author_id/38/ There...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:54 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I need help with a phrase
Replies: 12
Views: 3885

Re: I need help with a phrase

I would put it the other way round: διδοναι η αγαπη

And I would drop the εστιν as well in "proverbial" phrase like this.
by Paul Derouda
Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Different editions of the Odyssey
Replies: 1
Views: 1339

Different editions of the Odyssey

I am wondering about the relative merits of the different Greek editions of the Odyssey. I suppose the texts that are still considered more or less "modern" are (at least) the OCT, the Von der Mühll, and the van Thiel editions. What are their their differences, merits, drawbacks and possible eccentr...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:44 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Difficult Sappho fragment
Replies: 10
Views: 5128

Re: Difficult Sappho fragment

Thanks, accusative of respect makes sense to me. I checked up in my grammar book, and of course I've seen this form many times before, though I didn't know it was called "of respect". I didn't know it could occur with eimí like this. "parthenon teautan" now seems good to me too, rather than "sophian...
by Paul Derouda
Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:21 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: best translations of Homer?
Replies: 2
Views: 1663

Re: best translations of Homer?

I think the main point is whether you want an exact translation or a poetic translation. Lattimore's is the "established" literal translation. I think it's sometime so litteral that the idea gets blurred. You read a Greek verse and then the English one, and you still don't know what it means. His Od...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:54 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: New Members Introduction Thread (New Users Post Here!)
Replies: 625
Views: 232352

Re: New Members Introduction Thread (New Users Post Here!)

Hi,

I'm reading Greek by myself as a hobby. My primary interest is Epic, but starting to broaden my views...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:48 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Difficult Sappho fragment
Replies: 10
Views: 5128

Difficult Sappho fragment

Hello, I'm a new philhellene on this site. I just got the Loeb edition of Sappho and Alcaeus by mail a couple of days ago. After some reading I don't find Sappho so difficult at all, though I had been warned, as it's just about getting used to the Aeolic forms. But I just can't make sense of this ti...