Search found 2025 matches

by Paul Derouda
Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:27 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Epitaphs, memorial phrases
Replies: 6
Views: 1820

Re: Epitaphs, memorial phrases

This isn't exactly what you're looking for... But if you were standing on the grave of your worst enemy, you might quote the Odyssey (1.47): ὡς ἀπόλοιτο καὶ ἄλλος, ὅτις τοιαῦτά γε ῥέζοι "Let anyone who did what he did die like that." This is what Scipio Aemilianus said, according to legend, when Tib...
by Paul Derouda
Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:16 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: An inscribed stele near the acropolis of Athens
Replies: 24
Views: 4335

An inscribed stele near the acropolis of Athens

A friend of mine visiting Athens sent this photo. You will have guessed which particular detail caught his attention. I've tried to decipher the inscription, but I haven't quite got it. Here's my best shot: https://i.imgur.com/nN0dIYc.jpg κατ᾽ ἐπερώτημα τῆς βουλὴς τῶν φ' Χαρίτωνα Νεικιοῦ Μαραθώνιον ...
by Paul Derouda
Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:13 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Newbie seeks good readers
Replies: 17
Views: 5663

Re: Newbie seeks good readers

I don't, but it looks nice at a quick glance. Actually I've seen it in my university library, but I didn't borrow it for some reason, maybe because my book pile was so high already. Apparently it has similar aims as Abicht for Herodotus, being "für den Schulgebrauch erklärt", while Classen-Steup is ...
by Paul Derouda
Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 1.42.1.
Replies: 10
Views: 2481

Re: Thucydides 1.42.1.

What I think? I'm not sure, I've read it in such short bits that I still don't have very good general picture... Should read it again, I guess. One thing that surprised me was his somewhat superstitious view of that earthquakes were particularly common during the war, given the general view that he ...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:26 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 1.42.1.
Replies: 10
Views: 2481

Re: Thucydides 1.42.1.

Well, I posted an extremely difficult sentence without any context, so I'm not exactly blaming you for not understanding something I couldn't understand myself with the help of a translation.. There are a few very frustrating words in Greek that can mean almost anything according to context. ἀξιόω i...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:53 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 1.42.1.
Replies: 10
Views: 2481

Re: Thucydides 1.42.1.

Thanks. Somehow I found difficult the idea that "the younger one" should be the subject of πολεμήσει. But "if he finds himself at war" will do! As a separate question, what is the construction and meaning of τοῖς ὁμοίοις ἡμᾶς ἀμύνεσθαι? τοῖς ὁμοίοις dative of instrument: "to defend us with the like"...
by Paul Derouda
Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:37 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 1.42.1.
Replies: 10
Views: 2481

Thucydides 1.42.1.

‘ὧν ἐνθυμηθέντες καὶ νεώτερός τις παρὰ πρεσβυτέρου αὐτὰ μαθὼν ἀξιούτω τοῖς ὁμοίοις ἡμᾶς ἀμύνεσθαι, καὶ μὴ νομίσῃ δίκαια μὲν τάδε λέγεσθαι, ξύμφορα δέ, εἰ πολεμήσει, ἄλλα εἶναι. A small question about syntax: is πολεμήσει an impersonal construction, similar to ὕει "it's raining"? εἰ πολεμήσει "if the...
by Paul Derouda
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:15 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Newbie seeks good readers
Replies: 17
Views: 5663

Re: Newbie seeks good readers

By the way, I'd love to chat about Herodotus. So if you decide to read book III and post about it, I promise to participate!
by Paul Derouda
Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:04 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Newbie seeks good readers
Replies: 17
Views: 5663

Re: Newbie seeks good readers

Yes, I have the whole set - but my set is unfortunately an old reprint from the 1960's. It's a high quality, hardback reprint though, much better than the print-on-demand stuff you get nowadays. My new recommendation for Herodotus is Abicht's school edition in German. It's a Teubner edition in sever...
by Paul Derouda
Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:20 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Newbie seeks good readers
Replies: 17
Views: 5663

Re: Newbie seeks good readers

I found one book on Textkit on Prometheus bound. It doesn't look like a book written for schoolboys though but more advanced (many of these school commentaries were written for "schoolboys", not girls, according to the authors...). http://cdn.textkit.net/fda_prometheus_bound.pdf Abebooks has several...
by Paul Derouda
Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:57 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Newbie seeks good readers
Replies: 17
Views: 5663

Re: Newbie seeks good readers

Just my two cents. Generally speaking, there are many good commentaries for beginners and intermediate readers of Greek from over a 100 years ago. As far as background information is concerned, they are often outdated, but they are generally quite good help for language and are often better for that...
by Paul Derouda
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:50 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Ὁ δὲ Πέτρος ἐπέμενεν κρούων· Acts 12:16
Replies: 22
Views: 5293

Re: Ὁ δὲ Πέτρος ἐπέμενεν κρούων· Acts 12:16

Markos wrote:ὁ δὲ Πέτρος ἦν κρούων
I might be wrong, but to me this seems to be English, not Greek! :lol: I think "Peter was knocking" would be in Greek "ὁ Πέτρος ἔκρουε".
by Paul Derouda
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:21 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The final word on Greek pronunciation
Replies: 15
Views: 4416

Re: The final word on Greek pronunciation

Since the digamma is a consonant (or semi-consonant), however, it would be unorthodox to use breathings. Unorthodox or not, the rough breathing ("h") was still pronounced when it was there, wasn't it? I believe this is also reflected in English spellings, where we see things like "who", which I bel...
by Paul Derouda
Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The final word on Greek pronunciation
Replies: 15
Views: 4416

Re: The final word on Greek pronunciation

"recta den Mond verklagen" Apparently this means "take the moon to the court", but whatever that means, I don't know. About onomatopeia - it brings to my mind the story in Herodotus 2.2, much earlier than Herder and even Plato. You can check it out; it tells about two kids a pharaoh deprived of lang...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:51 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Is Pan mentioned in Homer?
Replies: 2
Views: 2854

Re: Is Pan mentioned in Homer?

Yes, I think you're right: Pan doesn't appear in the Iliad or the Odyssey. I can't tell you why; all my books are in cardboard boxes, but the Classical Dictionary might have something on this and on Pan in general, and I'd also check the Homer Encyclopedia and even Lexikon des frühgriechischen Epos.
by Paul Derouda
Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Diogenes Laertius 7.172
Replies: 12
Views: 3867

Re: Diogenes Laertius 7.172

(Though I will sneak in this: Dover says in the preface that he had originally planned to co-author his book with the scholar George Devereux. Devereux was a nut who became a great embarrassment to Dover, as recounted by Dover in his memoir Marginal Comment . But if you want to read an intriguing t...
by Paul Derouda
Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:11 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: The origin of the alphabet
Replies: 6
Views: 4004

Re: The origin of the alphabet

Is there actually evidence of acrophonetism? I thought that idea was no longer that current, but maybe I'm wrong. There was a notion once that the signs were once part of Egyptian writing and denoted the first sounds of Egyptian words, but I thought this wasn't popular any more. But it seems to me a...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:40 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Herodotus 3.15.4 - death by bull's blood
Replies: 2
Views: 1434

Herodotus 3.15.4 - death by bull's blood

Νῦν δὲ μηχανώμενος κακὰ ὁ Ψαμμήνιτος ἔλαβε τὸν μισθόν· ἀπιστὰς γὰρ Αἰγυπτίους ἥλω· ἐπείτε δὲ ἐπάιστος ἐγένετο ὑπὸ Καμβύσεω, αἷμα ταύρου πιὼν ἀπέθανε παραχρῆμα. Οὕτω δὴ οὗτος ἐτελεύτησε. "In this case, Psammenitos got his reward for devising evil, for he was caught tempting Egyptians to rebel. As so...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:02 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Antigone, lines 1-100
Replies: 11
Views: 4068

Re: Antigone, lines 1-100

Hi Bart! Nice to see you around.

ὦ κοινὸν αὐτάδελφον Ἰσμήνης κάρα - this is by far the most tortured line of poetry I've ever seen, in any language. It brings back to my mind Housman's parody, posted several times already on Textkit: http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/housman.html.
by Paul Derouda
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:52 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thanks
Replies: 154
Views: 29199

Re: Asking help for answers

I think Mindy's native language is Chinese. I don't know Chinese, but I think English and Chinese have a lot in common here in not loading information in word endings, unlike Greek.
by Paul Derouda
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:48 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 1.14.1 Penteconters
Replies: 9
Views: 2954

Re: Thucydides 1.14.1 Penteconters

Thanks for you replies. I've been in bit of a hurry recently. Randy, I actually read a whole book about shipbuilding when reading Homer (whose conclusions I've come to view with some suspicions now). I'm not going to go that deep this time, I'd like to finish one day! I was just hoping for some easy...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Diogenes Laertius 7.172
Replies: 12
Views: 3867

Re: Diogenes Laertius 7.172

The point seems to be that γαστρίζειν "punch the stomach" is a real word, while μηρίζειν is a nonce word coined by the boy (the only reference in LSJ is this passage); unfortunately, μηρίζειν immediately brings διαμηρίζειν to Hecaton's mind, a word which has a very specific meaning – not "to punch t...
by Paul Derouda
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:26 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 1.14.1 Penteconters
Replies: 9
Views: 2954

Re: Thucydides 1.14.1 Penteconters

In addition, apparently navis longa is warship in Latin. It seems to me that penteconters were ancient history by Roman times. Is the word a poetic loan word from Greek?
by Paul Derouda
Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:21 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 1.14.1 Penteconters
Replies: 9
Views: 2954

Re: Thucydides 1.14.1 Penteconters

Yes, that's what the Greek seems to say, but in Herodotus I think penteconters and "long ships" were, if I remember correctly, the same thing. We're emptying our apartment to make some renovations, so most of my books are in cardboard boxes, and I can't check anything up. But I guess this kind of th...
by Paul Derouda
Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:09 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides 1.14.1 Penteconters
Replies: 9
Views: 2954

Thucydides 1.14.1 Penteconters

δυνατώτατα γὰρ ταῦτα τῶν ναυτικῶν ἦν. φαίνεται δὲ καὶ ταῦτα πολλαῖς γενεαῖς ὕστερα γενόμενα τῶν Τρωικῶν τριήρεσι μὲν ὀλίγαις χρώμενα, πεντηκοντόροις δ᾽ ἔτι καὶ πλοίοις μακροῖς ἐξηρτυμένα ὥσπερ ἐκεῖνα. I've been reading somewhat lazily the first pages of Thucydides, without looking very deep into mat...
by Paul Derouda
Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ΤΙΣ as self reference?!
Replies: 3
Views: 1681

Re: ΤΙΣ as self reference?!

I don't really know these law terms or the context, but I don't think that τις refers to Demosthenes. Here's how I understand this: καὶ κατηγορήσων, ἐπειδή τις εἰσάγει, πάρειμι... "Now that some one is bringing (=has brought) [this matter before the court], I am here to accuse him (Meidias? Not "som...
by Paul Derouda
Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:13 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Μάλα / despite
Replies: 10
Views: 3122

Re: Μάλα / despite

Thanks, Bartek! I'm going to need it (good luck, I mean). Feel free to ask for help any time with the Anabasis! If you feel more comfortable with French than English, I think you can use that as well (Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we have a strict "English only" policy here ...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:32 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: OCT font
Replies: 14
Views: 3866

Re: OCT font

What surprises me with this papyrus is that the characters have serifs. I knew inscriptions in Latin had them, but I didn’t know they’d been copied into Greek as well.
by Paul Derouda
Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Μάλα / despite
Replies: 10
Views: 3122

Re: Μάλα / despite

I read the whole Anabasis in the Budé edition, so I think it's quite good. It was the first prose text of any length that I have read, and a good choice I think. For additional help, you could try Goodwin's commentary First Four Books of Xenophon’s Anabasis , available here on Textkit: http://www.te...
by Paul Derouda
Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:20 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: color in Homer and Ancient Greek
Replies: 4
Views: 3415

Re: color in Homer and Ancient Greek

I think many of the Greek-English correspondences for color in the Odyssey as given in the video were wrong, and there are some missing like χλωρός yellow/green. I haven't read Gladstone though, so I don't know if these correspondences come from there or from somewhere else. I think the so-called co...
by Paul Derouda
Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:43 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: What was the name of the Spartan education system?
Replies: 20
Views: 5327

Re: What was the name of the Spartan education system?

I know, the part where Leonidas yells "This is Sparta" was always the weak spot in this otherwise painstakingly accurate film adaptation. Just look for instance at the famous Spartan combat attire consisting of swim trunks and a cloak, widely attested on pottery and other pictographic evidence, or t...
by Paul Derouda
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:28 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: What was the name of the Spartan education system?
Replies: 20
Views: 5327

Re: What was the name of the Spartan education system?

Note LSJ on ὅδε , especially: III. in sentences beginning this is . . , the Engl. this is freq. represented by nom. pl. neut. τάδε; ἐπεὶ οὐκ ἔρανος τάδε γ’ ἐστίν this is not an ἔρανος, Od.1.226; ἆρ’ οὐχ ὕβρις τάδ’; is not this insolence? S.OC883; of persons, Ἀπόλλων τάδ’ ἦν this was A., S. OT1329 (l...
by Paul Derouda
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:20 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: What was the name of the Spartan education system?
Replies: 20
Views: 5327

Re: What was the name of the Spartan education system?

Perhaps that wasn't laconic enough... Maybe μανία; ἀλλ᾽ Σπάρτη γε τάδε.
by Paul Derouda
Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:05 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: What was the name of the Spartan education system?
Replies: 20
Views: 5327

Re: What was the name of the Spartan education system?

Of course, how you translate "this" depends on the context and I suppose you can render it in different ways. I took it that Bedwere was referring to the historically well-informed scene in Zack Snyder's film 300 . (Notice also the woman nodding assent to Leonidas: she's Gorgo, the same person recen...
by Paul Derouda
Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:48 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: What was the name of the Spartan education system?
Replies: 20
Views: 5327

Re: What was the name of the Spartan education system?

If you want to say ”This is Sparta”, wouldn’t you rather use some form of οδε instead of ουτος? Ουτος often refers to something pertaining to the person addressed, while οδε is something close to the person speaking. And perhaps you would also use a particle, perhaps μεν or γαρ? So I would say οδε μ...
by Paul Derouda
Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:02 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides - good translation
Replies: 34
Views: 9652

Re: Thucydides - good translation

The reason why I want another translation beside de Romilly's Budé (which I don't have but I can get) is that I like to have a couple different translations when I read a text, especially when it's as difficult as Thucydides. It's especially helpful to have translations into different languages, as ...
by Paul Derouda
Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:08 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: the most essential Ancient Greek text poll
Replies: 18
Views: 5408

Re: the most essential Ancient Greek text poll

The foremost reason why the Iliad should be on the top of the list is that it's the one that was by far the most read in antiquity and later. There are more medieval manuscripts of the Iliad than of any other Greek text except the New Testament. If I understand you correctly you are saying that the...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:01 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides - good translation
Replies: 34
Views: 9652

Re: Thucydides - good translation

I've just cut open the pages about halfway in my copy of Alberti vol 1 By the way, this is the right way to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU7lqM6NfQo. Don't use a knife! Last time I cut the pages open with a knife (a Budé edition of Aristophanes) and they look pretty ugly now. I have two c...
by Paul Derouda
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:42 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Thucydides - good translation
Replies: 34
Views: 9652

Thucydides - good translation

I've decided to take a decisive step in my life. I'm going to start reading Thucydides with the objective of finishing it. I've just cut open the pages about halfway in my copy of Alberti vol 1 (unfortunately, I've been unable to get a hold of the hardback version) and I'm ready. I've already receiv...