Search found 343 matches

by Aetos
Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:53 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 262-294
Replies: 27
Views: 1370

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 262-294

I agree that the double entendre is a very plausible interpretation and earlier commentaries may be coloured by Victorian attitudes (even Ameis equates μίσγεσθαι with 'sich gesellt'), but Hainesworth a 20th century prude? I would have expected better! Homer pretty consistently pokes fun at the gods ...
by Aetos
Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:11 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Vacation reading
Replies: 71
Views: 3357

Re: Vacation reading

Hey, it could be Odysseus playing the hustler (would you put it past him?):
"I'm in pretty rough shape right now, both physically and mentally, I've been wounded in war, I've been beaten up by the sea, but hey, all the same (even though I've suffered many bad things), I'll take a shot at the prize."
by Aetos
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:16 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 262-294
Replies: 27
Views: 1370

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 262-294

Not to throw a wrench in the works, but Hainesworth says that μίσγεσθαι as an euphemism for having sex, is a later usage and speculates that it must have "sounded odd to the Classical Age". He further mentions that "the Scholiasts make no mention of it, but Eusthathios notes a gloss συνεῖναι beside ...
by Aetos
Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:46 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL
Replies: 52
Views: 5058

Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

It's not quite as much as fun when you do it for a living, but it's still the best sit-down job I ever had.
by Aetos
Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:51 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL
Replies: 52
Views: 5058

Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

What would the long route be to learning Latin that you took? Would it happen to be reading through A&G’s grammar by any chance? You seem to be able to reference that book at the spur of the moment. First off, I think mwh and Barry have pretty much addressed how to go about learning Latin and I can...
by Aetos
Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:08 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL
Replies: 52
Views: 5058

Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

mwh and barry can give you a better appraisal, but for a literal translation it appears to be fine. I'd change the rendering of Haec to "she", though, remembering that Fama is a personification of a goddess, in this case a "monstrum horrendum", not just a concept or idea. BTW, I just realized that I...
by Aetos
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:12 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL
Replies: 52
Views: 5058

Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:18 pm
I would say the ablative in both cases is the ablative with a verb of filling (yes, it's considered a thing).
Here's the reference in A&G, in case you want more!:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... ythp%3D556
by Aetos
Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:04 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: perfect tense followed by present tense question
Replies: 3
Views: 234

Re: perfect tense followed by present tense question

I think this is what you're looking for:
Allen & Greenough, Para.556
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... ythp%3D556

"Dum regularly takes the Present Indicative to denote continued action in past time"
by Aetos
Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:07 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Translate English-to-Latin
Replies: 8
Views: 627

Re: Translate English-to-Latin

So iam pretty much gives it away that it’s something that has been going on in the past and the fact that the verb is in the present makes it seem that it is still continuing in the present, correct? Check Note 1 in that section (A&G 466 Note 1). The difference between the English and the Latin is ...
by Aetos
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:41 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL
Replies: 52
Views: 5058

Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

What is haec referring to here? It can’t be monstrum because even though it’s a neuter noun it’s in the singular. Haec refers back to Fama, which of course is a feminine noun. Theodore Williams translates vario sermone as "with changeful speech". What follows gaudens in the poem is "et pariter fact...
by Aetos
Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:40 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Objective Genitive?
Replies: 14
Views: 657

Re: Objective Genitive?

So if a noun comes before the verbal noun, it is subjective genitive, and if it comes after it is an objective genitive? You'll need to review the concept of attributive vs. predicate position. In the first example, "ἐκείνου" came before the verbal noun, yes, but more importantly it came between th...
by Aetos
Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:09 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Objective Genitive?
Replies: 14
Views: 657

Re: Objective Genitive?

I see Barry has already answered this, but I'll throw this in, as it contains another example and to be honest, I can't really take credit for what follows, as it comes mostly from Claxton's Attica : As you've probably read in the book, subjective and objective genitives are employed when the noun t...
by Aetos
Tue Sep 03, 2019 2:39 pm
Forum: Medieval and Neo-Latin
Topic: Winnie Ille Pu help
Replies: 2
Views: 477

Re: Winnie Ille Pu help

I think this excerpt from Lewis & Short explains the usage: E In neutr. sing. a Quod signifies, 1 As much as, as far as, what, = quantum: adjutabo quod potero, Ter. Heaut. 3, 1, 7: cura, quod potes, ut valeas, Cic. Fam. 14, 4, 6: quae tibi mandavi, velim ut cures, quod sine molestiā tuā facere poter...
by Aetos
Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:50 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL
Replies: 52
Views: 5058

Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

5. Probably dative of reference, possible could be analyzed as genitive. "For the queen, that day was a day of woes and the original cause of her death." Or maybe "That ws the day of the queen's woes and the original cause of her death." As you can see, it can be expressed either way. BTW, the gent...
by Aetos
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:02 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Translate English-to-Latin
Replies: 8
Views: 627

Re: Translate English-to-Latin

Believe it or not, what you need here is the present active indicative: multos iam annos disco linguam latinam. Here's the reference in A&G: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0001%3Asmythp%3D466 This is an action continuing in the present, but begun in the past. Y...
by Aetos
Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:37 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Trip to Greece - advice?
Replies: 13
Views: 938

Re: Trip to Greece - advice?

It's been a long time, but my wife liked Aigina. It's a nice day trip; you could actually go there for dinner (well, maybe a late lunch) and be back the same evening. She says it's beautiful. I know you've been reading Herodotus, so if you've read Book 5, you know there's a bit of history between th...
by Aetos
Sun Sep 01, 2019 4:47 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: magistri, magistrae
Replies: 3
Views: 257

Re: magistri, magistrae

My first (and for the first four years) Latin teacher was a magistra and it's thanks to her inspiring and enthusiastic presentation of the language that for the rest of my life I found myself always returning to the story and the literature of Rome.
by Aetos
Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:18 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: exercise in Morwood, query
Replies: 16
Views: 843

Re: exercise in Morwood, query

I see bedwere has commented and he knows what he is talking about so perhaps I am wrong. I think you and Bedwere are really saying the same thing-that τὰς μετὰ δόξης is taken with τὰς ἠδονάς and not as a separate object. You translate it with a relative (adjectival) clause, Bedwere with a prepositi...
by Aetos
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: exercise in Morwood, query
Replies: 16
Views: 843

Re: exercise in Morwood, query

Hi Hugh, I'm going to stick my neck out and try to answer these, even though I'm a bit of a tyro myself in Greek: Question: Is it correct that the second τὰς modifies ἡδονας, with which it agrees? I think that τὰς μετὰ δόξης is a prepositional phrase in the attributive position of τὰς ἠδονάς, so yes...
by Aetos
Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:13 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: edition of aeneid with space to add scansion?
Replies: 2
Views: 181

Re: edition of aeneid with space to add scansion?

Knapp's book will give you macrons. (Charles Knapp, Vergil and Ovid, Revised , Scott,Foresman &Co., 1928: https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1998890352&searchurl=kn%3DCharles%2BKnapp%2Baeneid%2Bbooks%2BI-VI%26sortby%3D17&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title6 There appears to be enough space a...
by Aetos
Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:27 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Horace Odes I.24
Replies: 8
Views: 809

Re: Horace Odes I.24

In line 14, how are the trees hearing the lyre (or whatever the musical instrument is)? "auditam moderere arboribus fidem? " I do understand it is figurative, but why trees? Because when Orpheus played the lyre, even stones, trees, and animals were moved by it. Virgil mentions his skill in Georgics...
by Aetos
Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:06 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Translate English-to-Latin
Replies: 8
Views: 627

Re: Translate English-to-Latin

Whoa! Did Livy, Cicero, and Plautus really say that? I’ll take it as a good sign that I’m thinking like a Roman writer. By the way you missed my last question: couldn’t I exclude ea all together and leave it as: Sapientia mea prae deorum nihil est. The composition book I’m using has asked me to do ...
by Aetos
Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:39 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Translate English-to-Latin
Replies: 8
Views: 627

Re: Translate English-to-Latin

In this instance, you're better off with the possessive adjective mea. The dative is used with the verb esse (or similar verb) and is used more to indicate what is being possessed (I'm paraphrasing Allen & Greenough). If you wanted to say "I have wisdom", you could say 'mihi sapientia est'. Although...
by Aetos
Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:11 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: need help on inflection
Replies: 5
Views: 340

Re: need help on inflection

Hi Hugh,
This may be a Friday Afternoon Job of an answer, but here goes:
I'm almost certain that it's 3 rd person plural aorist for both ἦλθαν and εἶδαν.There are a number of morphological changes in Koine and this would be one of them.
by Aetos
Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:43 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Vacation reading
Replies: 71
Views: 3357

Re: Vacation reading

@Seneca:
You may not understand all the Modern Greek, but you'll enjoy the music!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5lPCeT8Ex0

And here is the text:
http://users.uoa.gr/~nektar/arts/poetry ... _poems.htm
by Aetos
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:19 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 239-261
Replies: 5
Views: 733

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 239-261

When I was looking up δέατο in the LSJ, I found that they cited line 242 and gave the following translation for 'μοι ἀεικέλιος δέατ' εἶναι' "Methought he was a pitiful fellow". Going back to the definition of ἀεικέλιος, I see that there's a range of meanings, all the way from disgraceful to ill favo...
by Aetos
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Modern Greek equivalent of Loebs
Replies: 7
Views: 854

Re: Modern Greek equivalent of Loebs

I found this in my bookmarks: http://www.greek-language.gr/greekLang/index.html It's a site that features resources in modern, medieval and ancient Greek as well as give the history of the language. In the ancient Greek section, there are a few prose authors with some modern Greek translations that ...
by Aetos
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:57 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Cambridge Grammar for Homeric -σαν to -ν
Replies: 1
Views: 287

Re: Cambridge Grammar for Homeric -σαν to -ν

That's why I won't be throwing out my Smyth any time soon. The authors mention in the Preface, p. xxxii and in section 25.4 that they only include the Ionic literary prose dialect and the Doric ā in the dialect of choral lyric because these dialects are part of Classical Greek. In their Index of Exa...
by Aetos
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:36 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ablative of place without preposition?
Replies: 16
Views: 1463

Re: Ablative of place without preposition?

I think it's safe to say that: 1. Of the three types of ablatives (proper, instrumental, locative), this is most likely instrumental, but could be proper. 2. Of the instrumental ablatives, it is either an ablative of means or specification. a. as an ablative of means , deceptam morte would indicate ...
by Aetos
Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:43 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 211-238
Replies: 45
Views: 3492

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 211-238

Since beginning this I have discovered "Odyssey 6.209-223: The Instructions To Bathe", P.V.Jones Mnemosyne, Vol. XLII, Fase. 3-4 (1989). So before continuing I will read it but post my thoughts as they stand now. Have you had a chance to finish reading the article? From what I gather, Jones rejects...
by Aetos
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:40 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ablative of place without preposition?
Replies: 16
Views: 1463

Re: Ablative of place without preposition?

It reminds me of Schumann's Nun hast du mir den ersten Schmerz gethan" from "Frauen-Liebe und Leben" (text Chamiso). The poem definitely expresses the pain that Dido would have felt upon the death of her husband. Nun hast du mir den ersten Schmerz getan, Der aber traf. Du schläfst, du harter, unbar...
by Aetos
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:39 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Prayer from Iliad 7
Replies: 3
Views: 491

Re: Prayer from Iliad 7

Seneca said: I prefer the complexity which Nagy sees ("The best of Achaeans" p31-2). Ajax is second to Achilles yet Hektor cannot defeat him so this duel presages "the outcome of a fatal defeat for Hektor when he comes to confront Achilles himself." One can certainly infer from this episode that if ...
by Aetos
Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:42 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ablative of place without preposition?
Replies: 16
Views: 1463

Re: Ablative of place without preposition?

This is from Book 4, line 17 of the Aeneid. In my copy of the Aeneid, the line reads: postquam primus amor deceptam (instead of me) morte fefellit . Deceptam is taken with morte (mocked by death) Here is Page's translation: "Since my first love betrayed me mocked by death". I don't think she's blami...
by Aetos
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:51 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Modern Greek equivalent of Loebs
Replies: 7
Views: 854

Re: Modern Greek equivalent of Loebs

I don't know of a series, but I did find a digital side by side for the Iliad: http://www.mikrosapoplous.gr/iliada/ Using this search expression might yield results for other works: "(ζητούμενο έργο) στα αρχαια και νεοελληνικα" ζητούμενο έργο =work being searched for (Ιλιάδα, Οδύσσεια, Ηρόδοτος, Ξεν...
by Aetos
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:56 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Prayer from Iliad 7
Replies: 3
Views: 491

Re: Prayer from Iliad 7

I agree with Leaf, that the theme here is the tournament, the one on one contest to determine who is the better fighter, but really no more than that. The tournament itself provides a short truce between Athena and Apollo, as well as between the Achaeans and Trojans. There is a certain symmetry here...
by Aetos
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:18 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Through the Bosphorus in a reed boat
Replies: 3
Views: 869

Re: Through the Bosphorus in a reed boat

Could he be referring to Herodotus' Book 2, Chap. 125.7, where Herodotus talks about the total cost of building a pyramid? So far, that's the only reference I can find in H. εἰ δ᾽ ἔστι οὕτω ἔχοντα ταῦτα, κόσα οἰκὸς ἄλλα δεδαπανῆσθαι ἐστὶ ἔς τε σίδηρον τῷ ἐργάζοντο καὶ σιτία καὶ ἐσθῆτα τοῖσι ἐργαζομέ...
by Aetos
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:29 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 162-185
Replies: 5
Views: 737

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 162-185

Paul Derouda wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:25 pm
How dare you call me a demi-god?
That's because he said it half jokingly!
by Aetos
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:03 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 186-210
Replies: 26
Views: 2302

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 186-210

Hi Sean, Rather than using the greek semi-colon (or colon, same mark), he uses what I believe is an em-dash. It's like an hyphen, except about 3 times longer and has the function of highlighting text. It can be used in place of a colon. I posted the page on archive.org, so you can have a look: https...
by Aetos
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:24 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 186-210
Replies: 26
Views: 2302

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 186-210

Sean wrote: perhaps because the confidence she's been given by Athena doesn't extend to her speech-making, so she nervously interrupts herself when the thought occurs to mention Zeus. Because of the loose syntax of these lines (perhaps mwh or hylander can weigh in on this), Stanford believes she is ...