Search found 747 matches

by seneca2008
Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:23 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 21, Part II, Number 4
Replies: 5
Views: 41

Re: Unit 21, Part II, Number 4

An infinitive is not a finite form. So which word is the finite verb in your direct statement? “ The infinitive, a nonfinite form of the verb (see Unit 5 Prelim.), is a verbal noun. As a verb form it has tense (or aspect) and voice and can govern noun complements and adverbial modifiers. As a noun, ...
by seneca2008
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:52 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 21, Part II, Number 4
Replies: 5
Views: 41

Re: Unit 21, Part II, Number 4

So what is the finite verb which needs to be put into the infinitive?
by seneca2008
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:15 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 21, Part II, Number 4
Replies: 5
Views: 41

Re: Unit 21, Part II, Number 4

The old men said that the women must obey the laws This is indirect speech. What is the corresponding direct statement ? Which finite verb has to be written as an Infinitive when the direct speech is turned into indirect speech? Do I need to place μέν in the first phrase? The old men said ......, w...
by seneca2008
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:08 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77
Replies: 8
Views: 223

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 Lines 48-77

Sean thanks also. But don't abandon this project so quickly. I have had little time for this recently but will aim to put some time aside this week.
by seneca2008
Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:50 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 21, Part II, Number 2
Replies: 12
Views: 312

Re: Unit 21, Part II, Number 2

2. What if someone wrote, "death of good men from the plague." Would plague be in the genitive or would it also be in the accusative? Go back to your original sentence "Strife and violence are harmful to a city in the same way: each is responsible for the death of good men". In your new phrase you ...
by seneca2008
Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:33 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 21, Part II, Number 2
Replies: 12
Views: 312

Re: Unit 21, Part II, Number 2

1. The dative of advantage seems quite close to the accusative of result. I don't know what you mean by the accusative of result. Can you point to where in M you got this term? Do you mean that the (transitive) verb acts on an object and produces some result? Of course direct and indirect objects a...
by seneca2008
Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:59 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 21, Part II, Number 2
Replies: 12
Views: 312

Re: Unit 21, Part II, Number 2

1. I was uncertain for a long time whether to put πόλις in the accusative or dative. "Strife and violence are harmful to a city" The meaning of this is Strife and violence are harmful for a city. And this is clearly the dative. I suppose if you put city into the accusative that could mean "in respe...
by seneca2008
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:48 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 21, Part II
Replies: 6
Views: 241

Re: Unit 21, Part II

I was having trouble with "would" I have not given a good explanation on this. Do you understand why there is an infinitive in this sentence "ἡγοῦντο γὰρ ῥᾳδίως αὐτοὺς κρατήσειν."? This is an example of indirect discourse. In direct speech what they believed was that "they will easily defeat them"....
by seneca2008
Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:52 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 21, Part II
Replies: 6
Views: 241

Re: Unit 21, Part II

The answer book wrote, Εκεὶνην μὲν τὴν ἠμέραν οἱ ῾ιππῆς τὸ στρατόπεδον ἐφθύλλατον, τῆ δὲ ὔτερᾳ ἠμέρᾳ πρὸς τοὺς πολεμίους ἤλάσαν. ἡγοῦντο γὰρ ῥᾳδίως αὐτοὺς κρατήσειν. "For that day the cavalry guarded the camp, but on the next day they rode against the enemy, for they believed they would easily defe...
by seneca2008
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unemphatic v. Emphatic
Replies: 5
Views: 232

Re: Unemphatic v. Emphatic

OK, so it sounds like emphasis. Perhaps it is similar to italics in English? The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek 29.1 uses the terms "contrastive" and "non-contrastive" as an alternative to the traditional "emphatic" and "unemphatic". "29.4 For the first- and second-person personal pronouns, t...
by seneca2008
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:42 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unemphatic v. Emphatic
Replies: 5
Views: 232

Re: Unemphatic v. Emphatic

Lukas if you look at the examples under the chart I think the distinction will become clearer. "The singular unemphatic forms (oblique cases only) are enclitic, and these are in fact the forms more commonly used. Unemphatic pronouns tend to come second in their clause or phrase. The nominative forms...
by seneca2008
Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:11 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 20, Part III. #11
Replies: 17
Views: 440

Re: Unit 20, Part III. #11

Don't be too hard on Lukas. Mastronarde is a dense, highly concentrated and difficult textbook. I am sorry if my contributions to this thread were a bit terse. In no way do I want to deter Lukas from asking questions. His questions are of course legitimate and the only way to make progress is to as...
by seneca2008
Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:47 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 20, Part III. #11
Replies: 17
Views: 440

Re: Unit 20, Part III. #11

I'm sorry, but it isn't helpful to the OP to cite examples that are not pertinent and in fact actually illustrate the opposite point. I endorse and underline this. There is a lot of material in Mastronarde and I try to frame my responses using this textbook. Often Lukas has simply not revised the m...
by seneca2008
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:33 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Museo Archeologico Nazionale Firenze
Replies: 9
Views: 622

Re: Museo Archeologico Nazionale Firenze

Thanks to everyone for suggestions. As ever there is far too much to do and even in a week too little time. Sean When I was younger I was on holiday in Italy with my parents and we got lost in Naples and ended up in some dodgy area with kids throwing stones (half heartedly I think) at our car. Subse...
by seneca2008
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:12 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 20, Part III. #11
Replies: 17
Views: 440

Re: Unit 20, Part III. #11

was wondering if position alone of αὐτοὶ tells me if it goes with σύμμαχοι or ᾿Αθηναίων? Or do I need to take the second step of deciding who it is who gets sick? You need to follow the grammar and pay attention to the cases. οἰ σύμμαχοι , ἐπεὶ εἰς τὴν τῶν ᾿Αθηναίων χώραν ἦλθον, καὶ αὐτοὶ ἐνόσησαν ...
by seneca2008
Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:07 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 20, a Word from Clearchus
Replies: 7
Views: 270

Re: Unit 20, a Word from Clearchus

Lukas wrote: Yes, I was not sure of how to translate the phrase and the literal was all I could think of, but it seemed awkward.
We spoke about this and you now recognise that this phrase is in the vocative case. The giveaway is “ ὦ”.
by seneca2008
Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 20, a Word from Clearchus
Replies: 7
Views: 270

Re: Unit 20, a Word from Clearchus

I think you are also having trouble with “ ὦ ἄνδρες στρατιῶται,”. Do you recognise the case? It’s a formula for example in Lysias on the murder of Eratosthenes you have “ὦ ἄνδρες”, in Plato Apology “ὦ ἄνδρες Ἀθηναῖοι” and in Lysias 12 “ ὦ ἄνδρες δικασταί“. This last one has an old fashioned but idio...
by seneca2008
Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Imperfect v. Aorist
Replies: 7
Views: 280

Re: Imperfect v. Aorist

I might be wrong, but it seems to me that the aorist would be more likely used about a decision that is final, whereas the imperfect would be more appropriate in a context where the selected course of action is open to revision if the circumstances change. This is how I see the Thucydidean passages...
by seneca2008
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:14 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Imperfect v. Aorist
Replies: 7
Views: 280

Re: Imperfect v. Aorist

I am not sure whether to put the verbs into the imperfect or aorist tense. On the one hand, someone may resolve but fail to do something, so it would not be just a one time act. On the other hand, one could be successful and it would be a one time event. I think this is not the way to look at it. I...
by seneca2008
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:40 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: What Latin words could I use or make up to mean "pan-causal temporal loop"
Replies: 9
Views: 406

Re: What Latin words could I use or make up to mean "pan-causal temporal loop"

I think you first need to work out what if anything this means in English.
by seneca2008
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:17 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ..., ὁ δὲ σοφόν τι ἐζήτει καὶ ἐλθεῖν οὐκ ἤθελεν.
Replies: 5
Views: 233

Re: ..., ὁ δὲ σοφόν τι ἐζήτει καὶ ἐλθεῖν οὐκ ἤθελεν.

Who is the subject and what is the object? You correctly worked out that “Therefore, it seems that the gender or case of the adjective and of the indefinite do not match the definite article's gender or case.” So what does that tell you? The sentence is “τὸν Σωκράτη εἰς τὸν οἶκον πολλάκις ἐκαλοῦμεν,...
by seneca2008
Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:48 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Museo Archeologico Nazionale Firenze
Replies: 9
Views: 622

Re: Museo Archeologico Nazionale Firenze

Thank you to all for your helpful replies. I have been to Florence several times before but never to this museum. I will read mwh's article when I am there. It looks very interesting. I too loved Florence from the first although I think that's true of almost every place I have been in Italy. I have ...
by seneca2008
Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:02 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26
Replies: 15
Views: 658

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 7 (!) Lines 1-26

My printed Allen has ὣς. Perseus and the Loeb have ὧς.

Probert says ὧς "thus" (after καί or οὐδ') otherwise it's ὣς . She notes that this derives from Apollonius Dyscolus and other grammarians but that modern editors do not always follow this rule.

Strange.
by seneca2008
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:55 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Velar with Strong Aorist?
Replies: 2
Views: 169

Re: Velar with Strong Aorist?

Page 156 states that a stem ending with a velar in a weak (sigma) aorist changes a velar plosive to a ξ. It did not mention the strong aorist, so I guess a velar stays as is with a strong aorist? I do not see a sigma being added to a strong aorist either, but I wanted to make sure. Take this one st...
by seneca2008
Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:40 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Albert Bates Lord, David F. Elmer, The Singer of Tales : Bryn Mawr Classical Review
Replies: 0
Views: 117

Albert Bates Lord, David F. Elmer, The Singer of Tales : Bryn Mawr Classical Review

This review of the third edition of "Albert Bates Lord, David F. Elmer, The Singer of Tales. 3rd Edition. Publications of the Milman Parry collection of oral literature, 4." may be of interest. http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2019/2019-10-09.html It provides a link to the Milman Parry website which I did n...
by seneca2008
Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:18 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: δέ
Replies: 7
Views: 386

Re: δέ

I should explain that the quote from me at the head of this thread was what I wrote in response to a beginner’s asking how to translate δέ (a question no-one had answered for him) I answered it and told him that he shouldn’t. “As I have said before only translate δέ when it is natural to express it...
by seneca2008
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:39 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 18 Negatives and Too Say
Replies: 2
Views: 161

Re: Unit 18 Negatives and Too Say

This brings me to another question. What thought process do you go through when translating Greek into English? Do you try to find the nominative and verb first, and then try to figure out what the verb in the non-present tense would be in the present tense? Or do you try to translate the words chr...
by seneca2008
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 18 Reading
Replies: 17
Views: 529

Re: Unit 18 Reading

Lukas did you know that this passage starts off at least as an adaptation of Xenophon’s Anabasis?
by seneca2008
Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 18 Reading
Replies: 17
Views: 529

Re: Unit 18 Reading

Thank you Joel for your clarity.
by seneca2008
Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 18 Reading
Replies: 17
Views: 529

Re: Unit 18 Reading

I used "with" because the author on page 141 stated that sometimes I can use prepositions with internal accusatives.
There is no internal accusative here. Look again at the examples on p 141 to see what internal accusative are.
by seneca2008
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:53 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 18 Reading
Replies: 17
Views: 529

Re: Unit 18 Reading

The Greek says he wished his children to be present. τοὺς παῖδας Is the subject of the infinitive. I don’t think you need to think about alternative ways the Greek might have been written. If I saw “He wished to be present with his children " I would assume Darius was going to go and visit his child...
by seneca2008
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ετρεψα or ετραπον
Replies: 15
Views: 523

Re: ετρεψα or ετραπον

Well there is a moral here that one has to be alert to errors in textbooks. Just as well mwh was alert to the error in what I was quoting.

Barry don’t get too exercised about “thinks”. I was not doubting what you were saying.! :D
by seneca2008
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:09 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 18 Reading
Replies: 17
Views: 529

Re: Unit 18 Reading

ἐβούλετο τοὺς παῖδας παρεῖναι What preposition do you need? He wished his children to be present. The construction is verb (ἐβούλετο) taking an accusative and infinitive construction (τοὺς παῖδας παρεῖναι). Did you look at p.79? “Subject of the Infinitive. When the subject of the action denoted by t...
by seneca2008
Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:32 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 18 Reading
Replies: 17
Views: 529

Re: Unit 18 Reading

"I was also thinking that "the children" belonged to the "be" verb."

Well they do. Look at page 79 accusative subject of the infinitive perhaps that's a more accurate way of thinking about it.

Incidentally I think ἀδίκως is an adverb and belongs with μαχεῖται.
by seneca2008
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:33 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Anybody ever made a YouTube video in Latin?
Replies: 2
Views: 149

Re: Anybody ever made a YouTube video in Latin?

Well done for starting a youtube Latin channel. I am not going to engage with your arguments but perhaps it would be helpful next time you record something to include the text at the bottom of the video. Also perhaps you need to show more than just your head it looks a bit odd with all that ceiling ...
by seneca2008
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:21 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]
Replies: 48
Views: 1604

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Thanks Aetos for giving those references which I will look through. I have started reading West's making of the Odyssey and he refers to pre-existing traditions and folk-tale narratives. I think its probably best to drop the "Fairy story" idea unless it can be shown in specific passages to be illumi...
by seneca2008
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Unit 18 Reading
Replies: 17
Views: 529

Re: Unit 18 Reading

A good first try. Some thoughts below which others may want to correct or add to. As I have said before only translate δέ when it is natural to express it in English. (That was in terms of of an antithesis with μέν.) On its own its more like a simple connective "and" which we wouldn't translate. γίγ...
by seneca2008
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:15 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]
Replies: 48
Views: 1604

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Yes point taken about the reader's perspective. I suppose in a roundabout way I was asking whether there might have been an Athena-specific altar or one of those carved shrines that Pausanias seems to come across everywhere he visits (admittedly in a different millennium). This is a bit like what s...
by seneca2008
Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ετρεψα or ετραπον
Replies: 15
Views: 523

Re: ετρεψα or ετραπον

Well... my question was about the weak aorist vs the strong aorist of τρεπω I am sorry I thought you had your answer to that. M. is saying that the strong aorist is poetic and intransitive (although Barry has an example he thinks is transitive in Pindar). The implication is that the weak aorist is ...
by seneca2008
Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:03 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]
Replies: 48
Views: 1604

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 295-331 [end]

Just two small points. First I have been thinking about the first word of line 301 : νήπιος. Garvie notes that in this position νήπιος in the Iliad occurs frequently and in the very "different context of a warrior setting off with high hopes to a battle from which he will not return". I wonder wheth...