Search found 1700 matches

by Hylander
Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:26 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Third Declension
Replies: 5
Views: 224

Re: Third Declension

Sorry. I misread the original post. Lukas and mwh set me straight.
by Hylander
Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:35 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: What subjunctive is this? (from Livy)
Replies: 9
Views: 1272

Re: What subjunctive is this? (from Livy)

Experirer is potential subjunctive in Allen & Greenough's terminology (sec. 445 ff.), subjonctif de possibilité in Ernout & Thomas (sec. 254, p. 236)

It has already been established that ne is an emphatic affirmative particle, not a negative. Something like English 'indeed".
by Hylander
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Third Declension
Replies: 5
Views: 224

Re: Third Declension

Don't worry about vocatives too much. When would anyone use the vocative for "water"? Neuter vocatives are usually the same as nominatives, but most neuter nouns (except diminutives) are inanimate and don't often find themselves in the vocative case. Otherwise, you'll recognize vocatives when you se...
by Hylander
Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:18 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Looking for Principle Parts Catalogs
Replies: 8
Views: 231

Re: Looking for Principle Parts Catalogs

For anyone intent on memorizing principal parts, I think, Smyth provides too much information about alternative and dialect forms, and doesn't provide the basic information in a convenient format. Otherwise, Smyth is very useful if not indispensable for Greek verb forms. And, as mwh notes, it's usef...
by Hylander
Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Looking for Principle Parts Catalogs
Replies: 8
Views: 231

Re: Looking for Principle Parts Catalogs

You will never find a table of every last verb, but Morwood’s Oxford Grammar of Classical Greek has extensive lists of just about aa those you really need to know, along with allthe essential grammar, in a very reasonably priced package.
by Hylander
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:27 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: What's the function of this subjunctive?
Replies: 14
Views: 1443

Re: What's the function of this subjunctive?

Officium est ejus qui praeest, iis, quibus praesit, prodesse. Where is this from? Is it really out of a genuine Latin text, or is it just made-up Latin? It's not the subjunctive praesit that calls for an explanation: it's the indicative praeest. praesit is subjunctive because the relative clause, i...
by Hylander
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Clarification on the use of ind./subj. in Seneca's "De brevitate vitae", IV
Replies: 3
Views: 627

Re: Clarification on the use of ind./subj. in Seneca's "De brevitate vitae", IV

Potentissimis et in altum sublatis hominibus excidere voces videbis, quibus otium optent, laudent, omnibus bonis suis praeferant. Here quibus is an instrumental ablative, the antecedent of which is voces , not hominibus . hominibus is an "ethical" dative or dative of "disadvantage": the words slip ...
by Hylander
Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: To be or not to be?
Replies: 4
Views: 249

Re: To be or not to be?

There are no guidelines. I suspect it’s omitted more often than not unless there’s a specific reason to emphasize it. I think you’ll get to be more comfortable with its omission the more you read. It’s a weak and in most contexts unimportant verb in the present indicative. But when you’re doing exer...
by Hylander
Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: exercise in Morwood, query
Replies: 16
Views: 731

Re: exercise in Morwood, query

τὰς ἡδονας θὴρευε τὰς μετὰ δὸξης.

I hope it didn't escape attention that this is a line of verse: the meter is dogmatic trimeter.
by Hylander
Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:27 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Vacation reading
Replies: 64
Views: 2506

Re: Vacation reading

Joel, you need to look up words in the dictionary: μεταδόρπιος,, ἠριγένεια, νεμεσσῶμαί, πότμον, ἐπίσπηι (hint: εφεπω), γέρας, ὀϊζυροῖσι. I don't think you can expect to pick up Homer and read with comprehension without doing some heavy lifting at first to solidify your command of the grammatical for...
by Hylander
Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:08 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Horace Odes I.24
Replies: 8
Views: 554

Re: Horace Odes I.24

Just to put in my two cents/tuppence worth. I love Horace's metrical mastery and his concision -- his ability to pack in a lot of meaning into just a few words and, in the Odes, short verses, using the resources of Latin poetry: the choice and artful collocation of words. Some of his short poems are...
by Hylander
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:09 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Vacation reading
Replies: 64
Views: 2506

Re: Vacation reading

ἀπεῖπον - "forbid", "deny", "renounce"

LSJ glosses this line: "give them full notice". Honestly, I'm not going to post an answer on the internet without checking to make sure I'm not utterly wrong.

Homeric 2d aorist infinitive in -έμεν.
by Hylander
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:50 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?
Replies: 13
Views: 796

Re: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?

You're not alone in feeling out of one's league when addressing textual problems, but at least (unlike me) you're adept at composing Latin verse, which undoubtedly helps. Check out the OLD for minitor . Paragraph 2 gives as a meaning "To hold out as a threat, threaten (an ill)," with a number of exa...
by Hylander
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:07 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?
Replies: 13
Views: 796

Re: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?

A conjecture of Scaliger's is what got me thinking about this topic to begin with: cieat for amiciat in a line of very mangled classical poetry. In its restored context I find cieat very attractive, but its complete absence from the record of Latin literature is crushing my hopes. I don't think the...
by Hylander
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:12 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?
Replies: 13
Views: 796

Re: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?

Would praeeunte be treated as trisyllabic with correption of ae, or as disyllabic with synizesis of praee?
by Hylander
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Republic 2.377a
Replies: 8
Views: 707

Re: Republic 2.377a

τοῦτο because ψεῦδος -- disdainfully lumping together the μυθοι told to children: "all that stuff is generally, just about all of it, a bunch of lies". That why τοῦτο and ψεῦδος are singular, and why τοῦτο is neuter singular and not masculine plural in agreement with μῦθοι. τὸ ὅλον is better explain...
by Hylander
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Republic 2.377a
Replies: 8
Views: 707

Re: Republic 2.377a

Look up ολος and ειπον in LSJ.

Without having looked at the examples you cited, I think they can be translated as something like "generally", qualifying a broad generalization which may not hold true in every instance.
by Hylander
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:47 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek
Replies: 29
Views: 6344

Re: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek

of course grammarians and linguists of Classical Greek have wholly rejected the idea of a tenseless verb for the language on empirical ground. ???? This explains it: Though I have only sporadically studied Koine (NT) Greek (informally, and not systematically – not something to be recommended), . . ...
by Hylander
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek
Replies: 29
Views: 6344

Re: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek

Is the book about the Greek verb by Rijksbaron called The Syntax and Semantics of the Verb in Classical Greek ? Yes. https://www.amazon.com/Syntax-Semantics-Verb-Classical-Greek/dp/0226718581/ref=sr_1_1?crid=32JL8KG4AS3CL&keywords=the+syntax+and+semantics+of+the+verb+in+classical+greek&qid=15656174...
by Hylander
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:34 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Republic 2.377a
Replies: 8
Views: 707

Re: Republic 2.377a

ὡς τὸ ὅλον εἰπεῖν is an idiom, or rather two idioms: ὡς . . . εἰπεῖν -- not quite English "so to speak" but it softens a categorical statement; maybe "more or less". που also softens the expression. τὸ ὅλον -- "generally", i.e. taking it as a whole (adverbial accusative). Generally, that (τοῦτο) [is...
by Hylander
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:13 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin adjective rules
Replies: 7
Views: 685

Re: Latin adjective rules

Magna in such a sentence would not qualify the subject's standing as a "scholar", unlike English "a great scholar." It would simply mean "big", referring to physical size and conjuring up the image of a large woman. You would have to use a word applicable to scholarship, such as doctissima or erudit...
by Hylander
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:06 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: TLGMarathon: Homeric Hymns, resources
Replies: 5
Views: 547

Re: TLGMarathon: Homeric Hymns, resources

Homer gets much easier the more you read, and eventually you can work up to reading rapidly almost without a dictionary. Congratulations on finishing -- for the first time. With so much Homer under your belt, the Homeric Hymns shouldn't be too difficult, either. There is a commentary on three of the...
by Hylander
Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:16 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Lysias 1.38
Replies: 4
Views: 522

Re: Lysias 1.38

Smyth 2728: The participle has οὐ when it states a fact, μή when it states a condition. . . . http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Smyth+grammar+2728&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0007 the negative in this case is μη because it is . . . embedded within the protasis of the sentence I think...
by Hylander
Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:25 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question
Replies: 29
Views: 2446

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question

δείδια =δεί (Homeric reduplication instead of δέ) + δϝi + α = δείδϝια (and therefore no problem with the metre at 6.165) I would guess (without having hunted this down) that δεί- instead of normal reduplication δέ- is simply a lengthening of the vowel to preserve the metrical shape of the word in a...
by Hylander
Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:43 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question
Replies: 29
Views: 2446

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question

The digamma is inconsistently observed throughout the Homeric poems. It's thought that the digamma had ceased to be pronounced by the time written texts of the Homeric poems were composed, however that process may have occurred. But the aoidos or aoidoi who composed the poems worked in a traditional...
by Hylander
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: After Mastronarde
Replies: 15
Views: 1950

Re: After Mastronarde

I've worked through Dickey, I found it very useful and I recommend it highly.
by Hylander
Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:08 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question
Replies: 29
Views: 2446

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question

I'm not at all certain that Nausicaa would be flattered by a likening to the statue illustrated in Aetos' link. But maybe I'm taking his post too seriously.
by Hylander
Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:03 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 4124

Re: Prot 350d

No. This is the "I know thee who thou art" idiom. "You have not shown my agreement that I erroneously agreed." " You have not shown that my agreement was in error."
by Hylander
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:23 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Real word greek works to read (in one's own native language) alongside Ἀθήνᾱζε A
Replies: 4
Views: 627

Re: Real word greek works to read (in one's own native language) alongside Ἀθήνᾱζε A

This might be just what you're looking for: https://www.amazon.it/Anabasi-Testo-greco-fronte-Senofonte/dp/881136468X?SubscriptionId=AKIAJE4ZCYSDRPXBUV4Q&tag=garzanti-sito-21&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=881136468X The Anabasis is not necessarily easy when you're starting out, ...
by Hylander
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:05 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question
Replies: 29
Views: 2446

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question

How does Odysseus know what Artemis looks like?
How do you know what a unicorn looks like?
by Hylander
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:56 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Digamma in Plato (?) Euthyphro 12a - Burnett
Replies: 3
Views: 805

Re: Digamma in Plato (?) Euthyphro 12a - Burnett

There's no need to think that Plato actually wrote a digamma. The line is a fragment of hexameter verse in the epic tradition, which preserved traces of the digamma in the form of hiatuses and lengthening of light syllables, even though the digamma itself would not have been written or even pronounc...
by Hylander
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ὅτι + optative
Replies: 12
Views: 1168

Re: ὅτι + optative

— The use of the mood of the corresponding direct speech presents the content of the speech emphatically from the perspective of the reported speaker. As such, the construction functions as a distancing device: it may suggest that the reporter believes the reported words to be false or otherwise in...
by Hylander
Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ὅτι + optative
Replies: 12
Views: 1168

Re: ὅτι + optative

In the first example, the salient item from the Greeks' perspective -- their key concern -- is the fact that the animals that had been spotted were not horsemen (οὐχ ἱππεῖς εἰσιν), and that is in the present indicative. The fact that the animals were yoke-animals is incidental and secondary, and tha...
by Hylander
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:33 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ὅτι + optative
Replies: 12
Views: 1168

Re: ὅτι + optative

In English, the distinction in the Greek identified by CGCG can be approximated by shifting between direct and indirect speech: "The scouts who had been sent ahead said, 'They're not horsemen.' Rather, they said, they were yoke-animals grazing there." "The women answered that he wasn't there. 'No [ἀ...
by Hylander
Sun May 12, 2019 12:25 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ϝ in Homer
Replies: 32
Views: 16163

Re: Ϝ in Homer

He was using the alphabet he had and recognized 'woinos' as an old way of pronouncing 'oinos'. My feeling is still that if the bards preserved all of the archaic words for the sake of meter, then the bards must surely have kept the Ϝ sound where required. The poet or poets of the Iliad and the Odys...
by Hylander
Sat May 11, 2019 12:38 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ϝ in Homer
Replies: 32
Views: 16163

Re: Ϝ in Homer

That's a good point, but we need to keep in mind that we really have no idea how or when the Iliad and the Odyssey came to be composed and written down. Dictated by an illiterate aoidos to a literate scribe? Composed in writing by a literate poet who was a master of the oral tradition? Composed and ...
by Hylander
Sat May 11, 2019 3:44 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Why is the subjunctive used in this sentence?
Replies: 8
Views: 1187

Re: Why is the subjunctive used in this sentence?

It's subjunctive because it implicitly represents what Pyrrhus said to Fabricius: "I am offering you a quarter of my kingdom if you desert." A speech act is implicit in obtulit. I don't think deserturus esset , representing a future indicative verb in direct speech, would necessarily be wrong, but s...
by Hylander
Sat May 11, 2019 2:52 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ϝ in Homer
Replies: 32
Views: 16163

Re: Ϝ in Homer

There's no reason to think that "Homer" was aware of the F or its pronunciation in earlier times. The author or (as I and others suspect) the respective authors of the Iliad and the Odyssey probably didn't pronounce digamma in their everyday speech, because they didn't observe F consistently. It's n...
by Hylander
Sat May 11, 2019 2:28 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ibycus 282 (a).40-48
Replies: 5
Views: 1026

Re: Ibycus 282 (a).40-48

Here are two undergraduate-level selections of Greek lyric with commentary: https://www.amazon.com/Greek-Lyric-Selection-Cambridge-Classics/dp/0521633877/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=budelmann+greek+lyric&qid=1557539638&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull https://www.amazon.com/Greek-Lyric-Poetry-Texts/dp/086...