Search found 1689 matches

by Hylander
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:09 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Vacation reading
Replies: 32
Views: 550

Re: Vacation reading

ἀπεῖπον - "forbid", "deny", "renounce"

LSJ glosses this line: "give them full notice". Honestly, I'm not going to post an answer on the internet without checking to make sure I'm not utterly wrong.

Homeric 2d aorist infinitive in -έμεν.
by Hylander
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:50 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?
Replies: 13
Views: 422

Re: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?

You're not alone in feeling out of one's league when addressing textual problems, but at least (unlike me) you're adept at composing Latin verse, which undoubtedly helps. Check out the OLD for minitor . Paragraph 2 gives as a meaning "To hold out as a threat, threaten (an ill)," with a number of exa...
by Hylander
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:07 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?
Replies: 13
Views: 422

Re: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?

A conjecture of Scaliger's is what got me thinking about this topic to begin with: cieat for amiciat in a line of very mangled classical poetry. In its restored context I find cieat very attractive, but its complete absence from the record of Latin literature is crushing my hopes. I don't think the...
by Hylander
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:12 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?
Replies: 13
Views: 422

Re: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?

Would praeeunte be treated as trisyllabic with correption of ae, or as disyllabic with synizesis of praee?
by Hylander
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Republic 2.377a
Replies: 8
Views: 483

Re: Republic 2.377a

τοῦτο because ψεῦδος -- disdainfully lumping together the μυθοι told to children: "all that stuff is generally, just about all of it, a bunch of lies". That why τοῦτο and ψεῦδος are singular, and why τοῦτο is neuter singular and not masculine plural in agreement with μῦθοι. τὸ ὅλον is better explain...
by Hylander
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Republic 2.377a
Replies: 8
Views: 483

Re: Republic 2.377a

Look up ολος and ειπον in LSJ.

Without having looked at the examples you cited, I think they can be translated as something like "generally", qualifying a broad generalization which may not hold true in every instance.
by Hylander
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:47 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek
Replies: 29
Views: 5811

Re: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek

of course grammarians and linguists of Classical Greek have wholly rejected the idea of a tenseless verb for the language on empirical ground. ???? This explains it: Though I have only sporadically studied Koine (NT) Greek (informally, and not systematically – not something to be recommended), . . ...
by Hylander
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek
Replies: 29
Views: 5811

Re: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek

Is the book about the Greek verb by Rijksbaron called The Syntax and Semantics of the Verb in Classical Greek ? Yes. https://www.amazon.com/Syntax-Semantics-Verb-Classical-Greek/dp/0226718581/ref=sr_1_1?crid=32JL8KG4AS3CL&keywords=the+syntax+and+semantics+of+the+verb+in+classical+greek&qid=15656174...
by Hylander
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:34 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Republic 2.377a
Replies: 8
Views: 483

Re: Republic 2.377a

ὡς τὸ ὅλον εἰπεῖν is an idiom, or rather two idioms: ὡς . . . εἰπεῖν -- not quite English "so to speak" but it softens a categorical statement; maybe "more or less". που also softens the expression. τὸ ὅλον -- "generally", i.e. taking it as a whole (adverbial accusative). Generally, that (τοῦτο) [is...
by Hylander
Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:13 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Latin adjective rules
Replies: 6
Views: 459

Re: Latin adjective rules

Magna in such a sentence would not qualify the subject's standing as a "scholar", unlike English "a great scholar." It would simply mean "big", referring to physical size and conjuring up the image of a large woman. You would have to use a word applicable to scholarship, such as doctissima or erudit...
by Hylander
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:06 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: TLGMarathon: Homeric Hymns, resources
Replies: 5
Views: 413

Re: TLGMarathon: Homeric Hymns, resources

Homer gets much easier the more you read, and eventually you can work up to reading rapidly almost without a dictionary. Congratulations on finishing -- for the first time. With so much Homer under your belt, the Homeric Hymns shouldn't be too difficult, either. There is a commentary on three of the...
by Hylander
Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:16 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Lysias 1.38
Replies: 4
Views: 393

Re: Lysias 1.38

Smyth 2728: The participle has οὐ when it states a fact, μή when it states a condition. . . . http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Smyth+grammar+2728&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0007 the negative in this case is μη because it is . . . embedded within the protasis of the sentence I think...
by Hylander
Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:25 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question
Replies: 29
Views: 1801

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question

δείδια =δεί (Homeric reduplication instead of δέ) + δϝi + α = δείδϝια (and therefore no problem with the metre at 6.165) I would guess (without having hunted this down) that δεί- instead of normal reduplication δέ- is simply a lengthening of the vowel to preserve the metrical shape of the word in a...
by Hylander
Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:43 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question
Replies: 29
Views: 1801

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question

The digamma is inconsistently observed throughout the Homeric poems. It's thought that the digamma had ceased to be pronounced by the time written texts of the Homeric poems were composed, however that process may have occurred. But the aoidos or aoidoi who composed the poems worked in a traditional...
by Hylander
Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:45 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: After Mastronarde
Replies: 15
Views: 1623

Re: After Mastronarde

I've worked through Dickey, I found it very useful and I recommend it highly.
by Hylander
Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:08 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question
Replies: 29
Views: 1801

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question

I'm not at all certain that Nausicaa would be flattered by a likening to the statue illustrated in Aetos' link. But maybe I'm taking his post too seriously.
by Hylander
Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:03 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plat., Protag.
Replies: 68
Views: 3249

Re: Prot 350d

No. This is the "I know thee who thou art" idiom. "You have not shown my agreement that I erroneously agreed." " You have not shown that my agreement was in error."
by Hylander
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:23 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Real word greek works to read (in one's own native language) alongside Ἀθήνᾱζε A
Replies: 4
Views: 500

Re: Real word greek works to read (in one's own native language) alongside Ἀθήνᾱζε A

This might be just what you're looking for: https://www.amazon.it/Anabasi-Testo-greco-fronte-Senofonte/dp/881136468X?SubscriptionId=AKIAJE4ZCYSDRPXBUV4Q&tag=garzanti-sito-21&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=881136468X The Anabasis is not necessarily easy when you're starting out, ...
by Hylander
Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:05 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question
Replies: 29
Views: 1801

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: No Such Thing as a Stupid Question

How does Odysseus know what Artemis looks like?
How do you know what a unicorn looks like?
by Hylander
Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:56 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Digamma in Plato (?) Euthyphro 12a - Burnett
Replies: 3
Views: 670

Re: Digamma in Plato (?) Euthyphro 12a - Burnett

There's no need to think that Plato actually wrote a digamma. The line is a fragment of hexameter verse in the epic tradition, which preserved traces of the digamma in the form of hiatuses and lengthening of light syllables, even though the digamma itself would not have been written or even pronounc...
by Hylander
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ὅτι + optative
Replies: 12
Views: 947

Re: ὅτι + optative

— The use of the mood of the corresponding direct speech presents the content of the speech emphatically from the perspective of the reported speaker. As such, the construction functions as a distancing device: it may suggest that the reporter believes the reported words to be false or otherwise in...
by Hylander
Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ὅτι + optative
Replies: 12
Views: 947

Re: ὅτι + optative

In the first example, the salient item from the Greeks' perspective -- their key concern -- is the fact that the animals that had been spotted were not horsemen (οὐχ ἱππεῖς εἰσιν), and that is in the present indicative. The fact that the animals were yoke-animals is incidental and secondary, and tha...
by Hylander
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:33 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ὅτι + optative
Replies: 12
Views: 947

Re: ὅτι + optative

In English, the distinction in the Greek identified by CGCG can be approximated by shifting between direct and indirect speech: "The scouts who had been sent ahead said, 'They're not horsemen.' Rather, they said, they were yoke-animals grazing there." "The women answered that he wasn't there. 'No [ἀ...
by Hylander
Sun May 12, 2019 12:25 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ϝ in Homer
Replies: 32
Views: 15532

Re: Ϝ in Homer

He was using the alphabet he had and recognized 'woinos' as an old way of pronouncing 'oinos'. My feeling is still that if the bards preserved all of the archaic words for the sake of meter, then the bards must surely have kept the Ϝ sound where required. The poet or poets of the Iliad and the Odys...
by Hylander
Sat May 11, 2019 12:38 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ϝ in Homer
Replies: 32
Views: 15532

Re: Ϝ in Homer

That's a good point, but we need to keep in mind that we really have no idea how or when the Iliad and the Odyssey came to be composed and written down. Dictated by an illiterate aoidos to a literate scribe? Composed in writing by a literate poet who was a master of the oral tradition? Composed and ...
by Hylander
Sat May 11, 2019 3:44 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Why is the subjunctive used in this sentence?
Replies: 7
Views: 1011

Re: Why is the subjunctive used in this sentence?

It's subjunctive because it implicitly represents what Pyrrhus said to Fabricius: "I am offering you a quarter of my kingdom if you desert." A speech act is implicit in obtulit. I don't think deserturus esset , representing a future indicative verb in direct speech, would necessarily be wrong, but s...
by Hylander
Sat May 11, 2019 2:52 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ϝ in Homer
Replies: 32
Views: 15532

Re: Ϝ in Homer

There's no reason to think that "Homer" was aware of the F or its pronunciation in earlier times. The author or (as I and others suspect) the respective authors of the Iliad and the Odyssey probably didn't pronounce digamma in their everyday speech, because they didn't observe F consistently. It's n...
by Hylander
Sat May 11, 2019 2:28 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ibycus 282 (a).40-48
Replies: 5
Views: 881

Re: Ibycus 282 (a).40-48

Here are two undergraduate-level selections of Greek lyric with commentary: https://www.amazon.com/Greek-Lyric-Selection-Cambridge-Classics/dp/0521633877/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=budelmann+greek+lyric&qid=1557539638&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull https://www.amazon.com/Greek-Lyric-Poetry-Texts/dp/086...
by Hylander
Fri May 10, 2019 1:08 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Scholarly opinions on Xenophon?
Replies: 6
Views: 959

Re: Scholarly opinions on Xenophon?

Caesar is also much more difficult because of constant reported speech and representation. That's exactly why he's a good author to start reading real Latin with. He confronts you with all the gnarly constructions you just learned about in your whirlwind tour of Latin syntax, and his style is large...
by Hylander
Fri May 10, 2019 4:24 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Scholarly opinions on Xenophon?
Replies: 6
Views: 959

Re: Scholarly opinions on Xenophon?

People look down on Xenophon because he was neither Thucydides nor Plato. That was his fate. But that doesn't mean he isn't worth reading. My personal opinion is that the Anabasis is a more engaging entry into reading real prose in Greek than Caesar in Latin because things often go wrong in Xenophon...
by Hylander
Fri May 10, 2019 2:00 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ibycus 282 (a).40-48
Replies: 5
Views: 881

Re: Ibycus 282 (a).40-48

I went and cheated by looking in vol. 3 of Campbell's Greek Lyric in the new Loeb series. He takes πέδα as μετεστι (like πάρα for παρεστι), and κάλλεος as a partitive genitive: "for them there is a share of beauty forever", "they have a share in beauty always". The man who is compared to Troilus is ...
by Hylander
Fri May 10, 2019 1:25 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Ibycus 282 (a).40-48
Replies: 5
Views: 881

Re: Ibycus 282 (a).40-48

I don't have much to offer beyond a few thoughts. 1. I wonder whether the simile runs something like this: The Trojans and the Greek likened/compared Troilus to "him" (Polycrates, I guess) as thrice refined gold to orichalcum (apparently is a type of bright-red copper, not gold but similar in appear...
by Hylander
Thu May 09, 2019 12:29 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 4055

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

the culturally nuanced image evoked by μεσημβριὰς is of a swooning almost sun-struck woman running alone outdoors, fighting off her own natural inclination to rest.
Aure is a demigoddess or nymph, Breeze personified, and she's seeking a cool place with water and shade to rest in the midday heat.
by Hylander
Thu May 09, 2019 2:07 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 4055

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

For them, noon (中午) extends from about 11:30 till about 14:00. It used to be longer, but chairman DXP shortened it at some point. It is a time for eating, resting and not interacting with others. Nobody practices piano or has domestic arguments at that time. It is socially unacceptable to call or c...
by Hylander
Wed May 08, 2019 3:42 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 4055

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

Herodotus doesn't have a specific word for "afternoon" -- because the exact time of noon could not normally be determined with precision in his world -- so he expresses something like the modern English concept as the decline of midday, ἀποκλινομένης δὲ τῆς μεσαμβρίης. Likewise, Aelius Aristides des...
by Hylander
Wed May 08, 2019 12:47 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 4055

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

All of the examples for هذه الظهيره, which I understand as "that afternoon", in the reverso dictionary are rendered "this afternoon" or "that afternoon". If we're trying to understand the meaning of a Greek word from an Arabic translation of a Coptic text that incorporates the Greek word, using an ...
by Hylander
Tue May 07, 2019 10:16 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 4055

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

In any event, if I understand the Coptic text you cited correctly, MECHMBPIAC is not Nonnus' nonce adjective μεσημβριάς. It's the genitive of the noun μεσημβρία (genitive of "time"), as the parallel word ECΠEPAC shows.
by Hylander
Tue May 07, 2019 4:14 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 4055

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

I'm not sure I completely follow your arguments, especially when you get into Coptic and/or Arabic, languages that I know next to nothing about. However, I don't see anything unusual in Nonnus' Greek. Nonnus clearly created his nonce word μεσημβριάς, (it’s “peculiar" in the sense of "unique," not “s...
by Hylander
Tue May 07, 2019 1:32 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 4055

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

μεσημβρινός, and presumably μεσημβριάς, mean "noontime", not "all throughout the day." For the "adverbial" usage, see Smyth 1042: 1042. Several adjectives of time, place, order of succession, etc., are used as predicates where English employs an adverb or a preposition with its case: ““ἀφικνοῦνται τ...