Search found 1585 matches

by Hylander
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:33 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Familia Romana Ch 33 Line 119-120
Replies: 2
Views: 33

Re: Familia Romana Ch 33 Line 119-120

Your translation isn't bad. The trick here is to recognize that fortissime a nostris and ab hostibus constanter ac non timide both modify the impersonal passive verb, pugnatum esset . They are parallel and this is an asyndeton: there is no "et" or other conjuction to join them. They are also arrange...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:34 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translating "to" into Greek
Replies: 5
Views: 69

Re: Translating "to" into Greek

those who speak Russian do not have such problems
Not necessarily. Some Russian verbs take different cases as complements than their Greek equivalents. For example, προδίδωμι takes an accusative complement, but изменять takes a dative complement.
by Hylander
Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:19 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"
Replies: 7
Views: 188

Re: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"

erat not est because the species in question (God’s appearance to humans) happened in the past. I was making more of a theological than a grammatical point. I thought Augustine, if he had supplied the verb, would more likely use the present when speaking of God's essential characteristics, which I ...
by Hylander
Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
Replies: 9
Views: 135

Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12

Since this is a conditional or general relative clause, it would probably be εν πράγματι εν ω...

But yes this is incorporation without attraction.
by Hylander
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:04 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative
Replies: 9
Views: 228

Re: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative

Just because a commentary says so doesn't necessarily mean I'm right. isn't this referring (obliquely) to his theory of the soul being a big ball of wax that takes impressions (Tht 191)? What is inside the souls, I thought, "ἔνδοθεν αὐτοὺς ὑφ᾽ αὑτῶν ἀναμιμνῃσκομένους", was impressions recalling them...
by Hylander
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:48 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ημιν εγενετο
Replies: 2
Views: 76

Re: ημιν εγενετο

Yes, it can be categorized as an ethical dative. The translations are correct, though. There's really no other way to translate this dative in English. "Our friend" gives effect to it. "Ethical dative" is just a label that grammarians invented to lump together various uses of the dative, like simila...
by Hylander
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative
Replies: 9
Views: 228

Re: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative

παρεξει would take a dative complement. αὐτοὺς ὑφ᾽ αὑτῶν ἀναμιμνῃσκομένουςi s just an anacoluthon.

Anacoloutha are more common in Greek prose than one might expect.
by Hylander
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:10 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative
Replies: 9
Views: 228

Re: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative

Smyth 1061: A predicate adjective referring to a genitive regularly stands in the genitive, but a predicate substantive or participle generally stands in the accusative in agreement with the unexpressed subject of the infinitive: ““Κύρου ἐδέοντο ώς προθυμοτάτου γενέσθαι” they entreated Cyrus to show...
by Hylander
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:06 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative
Replies: 9
Views: 228

Re: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative

It's a slight anacolouthon, as if the direct object of the main verb were τους μαθοντας. Plato is describing how writing affects or impacts those who learn to write and rely on it instead of memory, so in the ἅτε clause they are treated as they if were the direct object of the main verb, even though...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:54 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"
Replies: 7
Views: 188

Re: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"

Basically, you have this right. The sound is not the thing [ hoc ] that [the thought] itself is, i.e., the sound is not the same thing as the thought. Hoc is neuter even though sonus is masculine because the sound is conceived of here as an abstract thing. The second phrase, species . . . non erat q...
by Hylander
Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:05 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 14
Views: 586

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

Planudes was a 13-14th c. CE Byzantine scholar at a 1600+ year remove from Isocrates. However, prose rhythms in orators such as Demosthenes and prose writers such as Isocrates and Plato apparently follow the same prosodical principles as ancient Greek poetry. To me, this suggests that Allen is right...
by Hylander
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:09 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 14
Views: 586

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

Allen makes the point raised by Paul: namely, that Herodian and other grammarians confuse speech with writing. The "motor theory" of Stetson, which Allen endorses with some reservation (p. 2), apparently pertains only to the articulation of the individual syllable, not to syllable division. Allen do...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:58 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 14
Views: 586

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

Greek syllabification doesn’t respect word boundaries (like Ancient Greek writing). It’s articulated as a continuous stream of syllables within the larger unit (colon) like French. West explains how the prosodic rules for poetry are based on this feature at the beginning of Greek Metre . A long/heav...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:12 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 14
Views: 586

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

My guess would be that ἐξ- would continue to be syllabified as a unit, given that it would be recognizable as a morpheme or maybe sub-morpheme if there is such a thing. But I think ε-ξα-κο-λου-θω would be ruled out as long at least in poetry, as Greek poetry remained quantitative, because that sylla...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Present infinitives instead of aorist infinitives
Replies: 7
Views: 276

Re: Present infinitives instead of aorist infinitives

Those in 1.37 clearly stand for present indicatives: "I know these people personally"; they would be present tense in direct speech. 1.38 are narrative of events in past; could be told in historical present, but more likely imperfect, I think. "Historical present" is used by historians, and the spea...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:08 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Present infinitives instead of aorist infinitives
Replies: 7
Views: 276

Re: Present infinitives instead of aorist infinitives

Maybe "literary device" doesn't quite completely capture the imperfective/aorist distinction in this instance, which is reflected in the present/aorist infinitives of indirect speech here. I think the speaker's oral narration of what happened would likely have been mostly in the imperfect, which wou...
by Hylander
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:32 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Rumi's 13th century Greek verse
Replies: 4
Views: 259

Re: Rumi's 13th century Greek verse

Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: σίβυλλα, τί θέλεις; respondebat illa: ἀποθανεῖν θέλω. This is a famous quote from Petronius (c. 48). It's not poetry and I've never seen it with the Greek transliterated to Latin characters before, e...
by Hylander
Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:16 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Present infinitives instead of aorist infinitives
Replies: 7
Views: 276

Re: Present infinitives instead of aorist infinitives

ἔφη γὰρ εἶναι μὲν ἀνδράποδόν οἱ ἐπὶ Λαυρείῳ, δεῖν δὲ κομίσασθαι ἀποφοράν. ἀναστὰς δὲ πρῲ ψευσθεὶς τῆς ὥρας βαδίζειν: εἶναι δὲ πανσέληνον. ἐπεὶ δὲ παρὰ τὸ προπύλαιον τοῦ Διονύσου ἦν, ὁρᾶν ἀνθρώπους πολλοὺς ἀπὸ τοῦ ᾠδείου καταβαίνοντας εἰς τὴν ὀρχήστραν: δείσας δὲ αὐτούς, εἰσελθὼν ὑπὸ τὴν σκιὰν καθέζε...
by Hylander
Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:09 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5998

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

I think you would do better not to attempt these as "sight translations". A wrong guess about a word, and the entire translation can devolve into incoherence, which is not a helpful learning experience. Better to use a dictionary, looking up unfamiliar words (even if you think you know what they mea...
by Hylander
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:55 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5998

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

Lots of μὲν δὲ, in fact, excessively balanced -- characteristic of Isocrates. ὀνόματι μὲν is balanced by ἐπὶ δὲ τῶν πράξεων, and both cola are governed by οὐκ they did not set up the system of government such that in name/theory [ὀνόματι μὲν] it was called [προσαγορευομένην] extremely [superlatives]...
by Hylander
Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:08 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Perfect Imperative Active?
Replies: 5
Views: 216

Re: Perfect Imperative Active?

Yes, don't be embarrassed to ask as many questions as you want. That's what this site is for.
by Hylander
Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:50 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Perfect Imperative Active?
Replies: 5
Views: 216

Re: Perfect Imperative Active?

Here is what Smyth says: 697. Imperative.—The usual form of the first perfect imperative is periphrastic: λελυκὼς ἴσθι, ἔστω, etc. No classical Attic writer uses the simple forms. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Smyth+grammar+697&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0007 We discussed the pe...
by Hylander
Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:43 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Are there second / third person dual Participles?
Replies: 4
Views: 200

Re: Are there second / third person dual Participles?

Participles don't have personal endings -- they're just inflected for gender, number and case. But there are, at least in theory, dual forms for participles in Attic Greek. The dual forms are probably rather rare, and there would be just four forms, since the masculine and neuter forms are identical...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:18 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἐπί-ἔφ' phonetical changes.
Replies: 3
Views: 160

Re: ἐπί-ἔφ' phonetical changes.

επι, απο, υπο before a consonant

επ', απ'. υπ' before a vowel with a smooth breathing

εφ', αφ', υφ' before a vowel with a rough breathing

Sorry, I gave up on breathing marks because I couldn't find the right ones.
by Hylander
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:43 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: endings of perfect subjunctive?
Replies: 4
Views: 192

Re: endings of perfect subjunctive?

These are alternative forms. Those on the right side are made up of the perfect stem with subjunctive personal endings, just as the present tense is made up of the present stem and subjunctive personal endings, Those on the left side are "periphrastic". They're made up of two words: the perfect part...
by Hylander
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5998

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

LSJ πρός: B. WITH DAT., . . . III. to express union or addition, once in Hom., ἄασάν μ᾽ ἕταροί τε κακοὶ π. τοῖσί τε ὕπνος and besides them sleep, Od.10.68; “π. τοῖς παροῦσιν ἄλλα” in addition to, A.Pr.323, cf. Pers.531, Xenoph.8.3. Emp.59.3; “ἄλλους π. ἑαυτῷ” Th.1.90; π. ταῖς ἡμετέραις [τριήρεσι] Id...
by Hylander
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5998

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

ἆρά μοι καλῶς ἔχει; ἀλλ’ οὔ τι μὴν ἔγωγε τοῦ λοιποῦ χρόνου ἔσομαι ξύνοικος τοῦ λοιποῦ χρόνου -- check LSJ. "For the future" or better "from now on" is the sense here. "I will definitely not dwell in the same house with them from now on." ἆρά μοι καλῶς ἔχει; -- she's asking with bitter irony if her s...
by Hylander
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:22 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Suggestions
Replies: 7
Views: 402

Re: Reading Suggestions

If you're interested in Plato and in getting an introduction to Attic prose, the Apology would be a good place to start. It's not too long and not too difficult, and there are plenty of annotated editions. It's ok to use a translation where you need help. Equip yourself with the intermediate Liddell...
by Hylander
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:15 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5998

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

ἆρ’ ὑμὶν ὡς ἀλγοῦσα κὠδυνωμένη δεινῶς δακρῦσαι κἀπικωκῦσαι δοκεῖ τὸν υἱὸν ἡ δύστηνος ὧδ’ ὀλωλότα; ἀλλ’ ἐγγελῶσα φροῦδος. This refers to Clytaemnestra, the mother of Orestes and Electra, who is relieved and joyful when she hears a false report that her son Orestes, is dead. She and her lover Aegisthe...
by Hylander
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:49 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Etymology of βροτός
Replies: 2
Views: 168

Re: Etymology of βροτός

This is supposedly an Aeolic word preserved in Homer (either from the Aeolic phase of the epic tradition or by cultural diffusion, take your pick), and thence spread into other dialects. ρο/ορ is the regular reflex of syllabic ρ in Aeolic (and Mycenaean and Arcado-Cypriot). See Lejeune, Phonétique h...
by Hylander
Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:52 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5998

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

I should have written “those who died before those who were sent away by Leonidas left”, as you correctly translated it. τῇ, τῷ -- Forms with τ- are used as relatives by Herodotus in the oblique cases. This is explained in the dialect notes to the hardbound Harvard University Press 1956 edition of S...
by Hylander
Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:33 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5998

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

γενομένων, γενέσθαι -- just "be/was" or maybe "proved to be" συμμεῖξαί-- "join battle", not "skirmish" Τρηχινίων -- usually in English the Attic form is used: "Trachinians" ἔπος, ἔπεά -- not just remarks but famous or proverbial remarks or maybe "quips" would do. τοξεύματα -- arrows or maybe volleys...
by Hylander
Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:27 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5998

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

A few things offhand. πλεῖστοι φόνοι -- the most murders ὅς σε πολλάκις δορὶ ναύτην ἔθηκεν ἀντὶ χερσαίου κακόν -- the idea is that Hector drove the Greeks back to the sea, or at least to their boats. νῦν δ’ ἐς γυναῖκα γοργὸς ὁπλίτης φανεὶς κτείνεις μ’· ἀπόκτειν’· -- "Now that you've shown what a ter...
by Hylander
Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:13 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Aug. de civitate dei
Replies: 5
Views: 247

Re: Aug. de civitate dei

Just a very minor point, which you may or may not be aware of: iste, at least in clossical Latin, is often contemptuous. Allen & Greenough, sec. 297c: c. Iste is used of what is between the two others [ hic and ille ] in remoteness: often in allusion to the person addressed,—hence called the demonst...
by Hylander
Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:52 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 642

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

Russian allows #bd- in word-initial position, and Russians have no difficulty articulating this cluster without interposing a vowel. In fact, the cluster arose precisely because an intermediate short vowel dropped out.
by Hylander
Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 642

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

Greek phonotactics allow word-initial #πτ- and a number of words begin with this cluster. #βδ- is simply the voiced equivalent.
by Hylander
Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:30 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Is profici the present passive infinitive of proficio?
Replies: 8
Views: 393

Re: Is profici the present passive infinitive of proficio?

I don't think profici here is impersonal -- it's passive. The subject is parum, which can be used as a substantive/noun. "Little was being accomplished." But your looser translation is perfectly correct, and in fact more idiomatic English: "there was little progress."
by Hylander
Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:45 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: perequito
Replies: 11
Views: 383

Re: perequito

McDevitte and Bohn translate this verb as future perfect indicative. Forget the translations -- they're misleading you. The Latin word cannot be future perfect indicative, if only for the reason that it's a subordinate clause in indirect discourse. As I noted in my previous post, either perfect or ...