Search found 1612 matches

by Hylander
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:01 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: “πάνυ μὲν οὖν”
Replies: 9
Views: 235

Re: “πάνυ μὲν οὖν”

It translates to French in context both as mais oui and as mais si.
by Hylander
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Οὐ(κ) ἢ Ναί
Replies: 4
Views: 199

Re: Οὐ(κ) ἢ Ναί

Frequently, to answer a yes/no question in the affirmative, the verb is repeated ("did he?" "he did") or as Callisper noted, a "did/do you/were you/are you" type of question is answered by ἔγωγε. Depending on the question, other formulas may be used. In my experience, ναι is not as common in ancient...
by Hylander
Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:26 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Sturtevant, Pronunciation of Greek and Latin
Replies: 4
Views: 154

Re: Sturtevant, Pronunciation of Greek and Latin

Allen, Vox Graeca and Vox Latina published by Cambridge UP. https://www.amazon.com/Vox-Graeca-Pronunciation-Classical-Greek/dp/0521335558/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=allen+vox+graeca&qid=1554729829&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull https://www.amazon.com/Vox-Latina-2ed-Allen/dp/0521379369/ref=pd_sim_0_1/13...
by Hylander
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Anab 4, 3, 28
Replies: 3
Views: 159

Re: Anab 4, 3, 28

Smyth 2737: 2737. Where μή is used when we expect οὐ the negative expression usually depends on a verb that either has μή or would have it, if negatived. a. After imperatives. Thus, σάφ᾽ ἴσθι μή με θωπεύσοντά σε know well that I shall not fawn upon thee E. Heracl. 983, ““νόμιζε μηδὲν εἶναι τῶν ἀνθρω...
by Hylander
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Anab 4, 3, 28
Replies: 3
Views: 159

Re: Anab 4, 3, 28

Although the verbal idea is expressed as a participle, it’s a prohibition; therefore μη.
by Hylander
Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Elementary question
Replies: 4
Views: 178

Re: Elementary question

It looks like θνῄσκω has an alternative athematic 2d perfect dual and plural in τεθνα-, so the 3rd plur. form would be analogous to ἑστᾶσι. Smyth 704c, as noted; and these forms are cited in LSJ: short forms of pf., 3dual “τέθνα^τον” X.An.4.1.19, 1pl. “τέθνα^μεν” Pl.Grg.493a, 3pl. “τεθνᾶσι” Il.22.52...
by Hylander
Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?
Replies: 22
Views: 765

Re: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?

Can I get your thoughts on whether putting a reasonable, but not my best, effort at understanding wild Greek, then checking the translation and moving on, will hurt me in the long run? I would suggest trying to parse at least some of the Greek to see how it fits together, after you've checked the t...
by Hylander
Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:39 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Elementary question
Replies: 4
Views: 178

Re: Elementary question

ἑστᾶσι is a contracted form, from -αασι. The first α is part of the stem. The second α, which is long, represents the development of a syllabic resonant ντι> vσι > ασι. See Smyth 463d: d. 3 Pl.—Original -ντι is retained in Doric λύ_οντι, whence Attic λύ_ουσι (115 a); ἐντί, Attic εἰσί. Subj. λύ_ωσι f...
by Hylander
Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:23 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 529

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

ἐγκαταβιῶναι was exactly the word he wanted to use -- the mot juste. It fits perfectly. No reason to engage in speculation.
by Hylander
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:58 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 529

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. Do you really think he first thought of writing καταβιῶναι and then thought, "Well, why don't I add ἐγ- for reason a [or b or c, take your pick]"? Does anyone write like that? The expression δεῖ με . . . ἐγκαταβιῶναι ταύταις ταῖς συμφοραῖς undoubtedly c...
by Hylander
Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 529

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

The emphasis is on ὁ Κλεομβρότου . . . ἔλεος, and that is what οὐχ negates, correcting a potential misimpression by Agis. The verb περιτέθεικεν is the least important word in the phrase, almost unnecessary in context, but the expectation of a verb towards the end of the sentence has been set up by τ...
by Hylander
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:12 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Aorist /pres inf not in oration obliqua
Replies: 5
Views: 248

Re: Aorist /pres inf not in oration obliqua

As the text Jeidsath photocopied suggests, the distinction between the present and aorist infinitives in Greek is a distinction of "aspect" similar to the distinction between the imperfective and perfective infinitives in Russian (although of course the usages in the two languages won't overlap prec...
by Hylander
Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Two More Unit 10 Questions
Replies: 15
Views: 414

Re: Two More Unit 10 Questions

#8 -- ἀδίκῳ is dative in agreement with τῷ ἀγαθῷ. This may seem somewhat strange -- you might expect the subject of the infinitive to be accusative -- but it's consistent with Greek usage. Maybe Smyth's grammar is a little too advanced at this stage, but here is the relevant section; 1062. A predica...
by Hylander
Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:37 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ф580
Replies: 6
Views: 368

Re: Ф580

tentaret would mean not the oratio obliqua but the author's words, No, tentaret would be subjunctive, not indicative, and would therefore not be the author's words, but the chronological order of the verbs would be puzzling and unintelligible, I think. If you wanted to make the subordinate clause r...
by Hylander
Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Xen. Memor. 1, 7, 3
Replies: 6
Views: 291

Re: Xen. Memor. 1, 7, 3

You are looking at Smyth 2186a: 2186. Assimilation to the Optative.—When an optative of the principal clause refers to future time (potential optative and optative of wish), the subordinate clause takes the optative by assimilation in the following cases. a. Conditional relative clauses (regularly):...
by Hylander
Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:54 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ф580
Replies: 6
Views: 368

Re: Ф580

I didn’t guess— I gave my reason. But how do you know I’m right?
by Hylander
Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Xen. Memor. 1, 7, 3
Replies: 6
Views: 291

Re: Xen. Memor. 1, 7, 3

It’s optative because it’s part of the potential optative idea, same as απολέσειεν.
by Hylander
Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:26 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ф580
Replies: 6
Views: 368

Re: Ф580

I will take a stab at this, though I'm not sure of the right answer. In my opinion, this is in implied indirect speech, since it represents Agenor's thinking. So in his mind, if he were a Latin-speaker, he would put the verb in the future perfect: tentavero , since his trial of Achilles would occur ...
by Hylander
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:50 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: rēm long vowel?
Replies: 3
Views: 169

Re: rēm long vowel?

Short.
by Hylander
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:56 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Familia Romana Ch 33 Line 119-120
Replies: 7
Views: 294

Re: Familia Romana Ch 33 Line 119-120

when studying a line I want to understand what each word means, why it is where it is in the sentence, and why the sentence is written the way it is.
That's a good goal, and it will help you to progress to the point where you don't need to think about grammar or translation.
by Hylander
Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translating "to" into Greek
Replies: 12
Views: 342

Re: Translating "to" into Greek

My point was a general one — that Russian doesn’t always mirror Greek case usage.
by Hylander
Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:42 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Familia Romana Ch 33 Line 119-120
Replies: 7
Views: 294

Re: Familia Romana Ch 33 Line 119-120

Thanks, Bedwere. I think the impersonal perfect/pluperfect passive are used much more restrictively than the Latin impersonal passive, though I can't quite put my finger on where it would be used. The perfect reflects a current state of affairs that is the result of past actions, so I don't think a ...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:42 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translating "to" into Greek
Replies: 12
Views: 342

Re: Translating "to" into Greek

But not a dative complement of the person betrayed. предать/предавать however works more like προδίδωμι with dative and accusative complements, and maybe that's a better translation for προδίδωμι. But there are other verbal concepts that take different complements in Greek and in Russian. I'll try t...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:03 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translating "to" into Greek
Replies: 12
Views: 342

Re: Translating "to" into Greek

Constantinus, am I right about this?
by Hylander
Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:01 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Familia Romana Ch 33 Line 119-120
Replies: 7
Views: 294

Re: Familia Romana Ch 33 Line 119-120

does Greek has impersonal passives as Latin. If no, how pugnatur can be best translated into Greek. I can't say for certain that Greek never uses impersonal passives, but if it does it's very rare, in contrast to Latin. pugnatur -- Greek, I think, would use the 3rd plur. active form, like English. ...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:47 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: New doubt about Ion
Replies: 12
Views: 375

Re: New doubt about Ion

To each science God appoint it's work by which (the schience) it can είναι be known. I'm not sure that's correct. The next sentence, I think, shows that he's not talking about recognizing an art/science by its subject-matter, but rather about understanding the subject-matter by means of the science...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:41 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: New doubt about Ion
Replies: 12
Views: 375

Re: New doubt about Ion

οἵᾳ τε means "capable of". See LSJ οἷος A.III.2: 2. more freq. οἷός τε c. inf., fit or able to do, “λιποίμην οἷός τ᾽ . . ἀέθλια κάλ᾽ ἀνελέσθαι” Od.21.117 (preceded by τοῖον ib.173), Hdt.1.29, 67,91 ; “λέγειν οἷός τε κἀγώ” Ar.Eq.343, cf. Th.3.16, Isoc.8.69, etc. ; inclined to . . , Plb.3.90.5, J.AJ4....
by Hylander
Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:33 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Familia Romana Ch 33 Line 119-120
Replies: 7
Views: 294

Re: Familia Romana Ch 33 Line 119-120

Your translation isn't bad. The trick here is to recognize that fortissime a nostris and ab hostibus constanter ac non timide both modify the impersonal passive verb, pugnatum esset . They are parallel and this is an asyndeton: there is no "et" or other conjuction to join them. They are also arrange...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:34 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translating "to" into Greek
Replies: 12
Views: 342

Re: Translating "to" into Greek

those who speak Russian do not have such problems
Not necessarily. Some Russian verbs take different cases as complements than their Greek equivalents. For example, προδίδωμι takes an accusative complement, but изменять takes a dative complement.
by Hylander
Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:19 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"
Replies: 7
Views: 334

Re: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"

erat not est because the species in question (God’s appearance to humans) happened in the past. I was making more of a theological than a grammatical point. I thought Augustine, if he had supplied the verb, would more likely use the present when speaking of God's essential characteristics, which I ...
by Hylander
Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
Replies: 9
Views: 258

Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12

Since this is a conditional or general relative clause, it would probably be εν πράγματι εν ω...

But yes this is incorporation without attraction.
by Hylander
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:04 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative
Replies: 10
Views: 390

Re: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative

Just because a commentary says so doesn't necessarily mean I'm right. isn't this referring (obliquely) to his theory of the soul being a big ball of wax that takes impressions (Tht 191)? What is inside the souls, I thought, "ἔνδοθεν αὐτοὺς ὑφ᾽ αὑτῶν ἀναμιμνῃσκομένους", was impressions recalling them...
by Hylander
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:48 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ημιν εγενετο
Replies: 2
Views: 131

Re: ημιν εγενετο

Yes, it can be categorized as an ethical dative. The translations are correct, though. There's really no other way to translate this dative in English. "Our friend" gives effect to it. "Ethical dative" is just a label that grammarians invented to lump together various uses of the dative, like simila...
by Hylander
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative
Replies: 10
Views: 390

Re: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative

παρεξει would take a dative complement. αὐτοὺς ὑφ᾽ αὑτῶν ἀναμιμνῃσκομένουςi s just an anacoluthon.

Anacoloutha are more common in Greek prose than one might expect.
by Hylander
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:10 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative
Replies: 10
Views: 390

Re: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative

Smyth 1061: A predicate adjective referring to a genitive regularly stands in the genitive, but a predicate substantive or participle generally stands in the accusative in agreement with the unexpressed subject of the infinitive: ““Κύρου ἐδέοντο ώς προθυμοτάτου γενέσθαι” they entreated Cyrus to show...
by Hylander
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:06 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative
Replies: 10
Views: 390

Re: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative

It's a slight anacolouthon, as if the direct object of the main verb were τους μαθοντας. Plato is describing how writing affects or impacts those who learn to write and rely on it instead of memory, so in the ἅτε clause they are treated as they if were the direct object of the main verb, even though...
by Hylander
Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:54 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"
Replies: 7
Views: 334

Re: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"

Basically, you have this right. The sound is not the thing [ hoc ] that [the thought] itself is, i.e., the sound is not the same thing as the thought. Hoc is neuter even though sonus is masculine because the sound is conceived of here as an abstract thing. The second phrase, species . . . non erat q...
by Hylander
Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:05 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 16
Views: 1253

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

Planudes was a 13-14th c. CE Byzantine scholar at a 1600+ year remove from Isocrates. However, prose rhythms in orators such as Demosthenes and prose writers such as Isocrates and Plato apparently follow the same prosodical principles as ancient Greek poetry. To me, this suggests that Allen is right...
by Hylander
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:09 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 16
Views: 1253

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

Allen makes the point raised by Paul: namely, that Herodian and other grammarians confuse speech with writing. The "motor theory" of Stetson, which Allen endorses with some reservation (p. 2), apparently pertains only to the articulation of the individual syllable, not to syllable division. Allen do...