Search found 2669 matches

by jeidsath
Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:34 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Word Order with εξεστι?
Replies: 10
Views: 140

Re: Word Order with εξεστι?

Here are the first few uses of ἔξεστι in Plato: οἷς ἔξεστι τῶν ἑαυτῶν πολιτῶν προῖκα συνεῖναι ᾧ ἂν βούλωνται ἀλλ’ εὔχεσθαί γέ που τοῖς θεοῖς ἔξεστί τε καὶ χρή ποικίλλειν δὲ ἔξεστι ταῖς συλλαβαῖς ἔξεστι δὲ καὶ “ψυχὴν” κομψευόμενον λέγειν ὥστε περὶ μὲν Αἴγυπτον οὐδ’ ἔξεστι βασιλέα χωρὶς ἱερατικῆς ἄρχε...
by jeidsath
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:40 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right
Replies: 5
Views: 180

Re: Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right

There is a 1986 paper from John MacGinnis titled Herodotus’ Description of Babylon. He has a discussion of the wall, along with much else. At the end, he summarizes the evidence with this table.

Image
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by jeidsath
Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:53 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
Replies: 9
Views: 133

Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12

Incorporation and attraction are not the same thing. See Smyth 2536-2538. 2536. Incorporation.—The antecedent taken up into the relative clause is said to be incorporated. The relative and antecedent then stand in the same case, the relative agreeing adjectively with its antecedent. If the anteceden...
by jeidsath
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ιερά?
Replies: 3
Views: 88

Re: ιερά?

Welcome! Properly, it's an adjective: ἱερός, ἱερά (long alpha), ἱερόν. In the plural, that would be ἱεροί, ἱεραί, ἱερά (short alpha). However, the neuter plural of this adjective is often treated as a substantive (noun): ἱερά, meaning "offerings." The same thing is done with the neuter singular, ἱερ...
by jeidsath
Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:24 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: CEFR equivalence
Replies: 6
Views: 226

Re: CEFR equivalence

Someone on Textkit could prepare a list of variable difficulty Unseens, give some rules for fairness (I'd suggest closed book, no resources) and ask people to email in submissions, along with their Greek level. It would provide as good a measure as any. Or more people could start contributing to the...
by jeidsath
Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:53 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative
Replies: 9
Views: 226

Re: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative

Here παρέξει does take an accusative I believe. See the sentence this is replying to: τοῦτο δέ, ὦ βασιλεῦ, τὸ μάθημα,’ ἔφη ὁ Θεύθ, ‘σοφωτέρους Αἰγυπτίους καὶ μνημονικωτέρους παρέξει: μνήμης τε γὰρ καὶ σοφίας φάρμακον ηὑρέθη. (Also see LSJ A.V for παρέχω) And isn't this referring (obliquely) to his ...
by jeidsath
Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:54 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative
Replies: 9
Views: 226

Re: I cannot understand why that participle is in accusative

I read the antecedent of that as τυπος, but I could be wrong.
by jeidsath
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:40 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Οστις
Replies: 6
Views: 112

Re: Οστις

Well, it's a rare sort of usage. Personally, I didn't even bother to look for it in Smyth, and went straight to the LSJ. Here is Marchant's note on Thucydides 6.3: ὅστις—a strange use of ὅστις, the ordinary rules for which as a relative are as follows:—1. Referring to an indefinite antecedent: (a)=s...
by jeidsath
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Οστις
Replies: 6
Views: 112

Re: Οστις

LSJ on ὅστις II. referring to a definite object, prop. only when a general notion is implied, Πολυκράτεα . . , δι’ ὅντινα κακῶς ἤκουσε, not the man through whom, but one through whom . . , Hdt.3.120; τελευταῖόν σε προσβλέψαιμι νῦν, ὅστις πέφασμαι φύς τ’ ἀφ’ ὧν οὐ χρῆν may I see thee now for the last...
by jeidsath
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:09 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How to improve English -> Greek translations
Replies: 2
Views: 97

Re: How to improve English -> Greek translations

There is a chapter on word order in the upcoming Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek that looks like it might be a more accessible discussion than I've seen anywhere else. Here are the pages available through the Amazon preview:

https://imgur.com/a/VKCyJpY
by jeidsath
Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:08 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Greek Papyri The Rediscovery of the Ancient World (1970)
Replies: 1
Views: 129

Greek Papyri The Rediscovery of the Ancient World (1970)

This is quite a treat. Greek Papyri The Rediscovery of the Ancient World (1970) [Source: Evangelical Textual Criticism .] Brent Nongbri announced the film today (on the Papy-L list): This 44-minute movie was produced in 1971 by the Greek and Latin Departments and the Slade School of Fine Art at Univ...
by jeidsath
Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ευ εχει
Replies: 5
Views: 183

Re: Ευ εχει

ὅθεν εὖ ἔχει τὸ τὴν νύκτα καὶ τὸν ὕπνον ἐν μέσῳ θεμένους καὶ ποιήσαντας ἱκανὸν διάλειμμα καὶ διάστημα καθαροὺς αὖθις ὥσπερ ἐξ ὑπαρχῆς καὶ ‘νέα ἐφʼ ἡμέρῃ φρονέοντας’ κατὰ Δημόκριτον ἀνίστασθαι. ’ Plut. QC 3.6.4 Maybe I'm misreading, but isn't that just εὖ ἔχει with τὸ...ἀνίστασθαι as the subject, ra...
by jeidsath
Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:43 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ευ εχει
Replies: 5
Views: 183

Re: Ευ εχει

Specifically for ἔχει? The LSJ occurs to me as the place to research this. And we have: B.II.2. freq. with Advbs. of manner, εὖ ἔχει Od.24.245, etc.; καλῶς ἔχει, κακῶς ἔχει, it is, is going on well or ill, v. καλός, κακός (but fut. σχήσειν καλῶς will turn out well, D.1.9, cf. 18.45; εὖ σχήσει S.Aj.6...
by jeidsath
Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:06 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right
Replies: 5
Views: 180

Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right

Nile shipwreck discovery proves Herodotus right – after 2,469 years Archive link In the fifth century BC, the Greek historian Herodotus visited Egypt and wrote of unusual river boats on the Nile. Twenty-three lines of his Historia, the ancient world’s first great narrative history, are devoted to t...
by jeidsath
Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:57 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?
Replies: 7
Views: 337

Re: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?

I don't think that this thread can possibly go well, but some other board participants are less cynical than me, and would like it back in the Koine forum.
by jeidsath
Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:27 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarque
Replies: 13
Views: 433

Re: Plutarque

Can one rely on Smythe's grammar for reading Plutarque, Plotinus, Lucian, etc.
For reading them? Sure. Or even Morwood. Post questions here if you get in trouble somewhere.

Did I actually see a New Testament grammar suggested? [Edit: This refers to the recommendations for BDF made above.]
by jeidsath
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:37 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 14
Views: 580

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

I'd be interested in the syllabification of modern Greek. I believe that the following advice, attributed to Isocrates, makes it clear that the rhythms of Greek poetry were not artificial, but similar to normal speech patterns (in contrast, say, to Sanskrit chanting). Specifically, he talks about mi...
by jeidsath
Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:20 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek
Replies: 10
Views: 2343

Re: The Cambridge Grammar of Classical Greek

I was just looking at it yesterday. Going by the section on prepositions, at least, it’s not trying to be any sort of Smyth replacement. I’ve ordered the paperback and will have a closer look at it in May.
by jeidsath
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:23 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 14
Views: 580

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

Allen has a whole chapter on the subject in Accent and Rhythm (ch. 3) which further details his points in the Vox Graeca discussion. the continuous stream of syllables in the colon or period without regard to word-divisions, which would have been a feature of Greek speech, like French, and is reflec...
by jeidsath
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:55 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 14
Views: 580

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

Β261 εἰ μὴ ἐγώ σε λαβὼν ἀπὸ μὲν φίλα εἵματα δύσω, Ψ615 τέτρατος, ὡς ἔλασεν. πέμπτον δ’ ὑπελείπετ’ ἄεθλον, Referring to the ΩΣΕΛΑ, of course, making up the second foot of each. Looking for συλλαβή in the TLG, I found this fragment of Euripides. The very last seems like a stretch. τὰ τῆς γε λήθης φάρμ...
by jeidsath
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:07 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 14
Views: 580

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

But to answer Hephaestion, you can have syllable without meter. In Herodian, whose discussion seems to motivate Smyth, the syllable distinction is not about verse. It's about what vowels and consonants are pronounced ἐν συλλήψει and which are pronounced ἐν διαστάσει. Τὰ ἄφωνα πρὸ τῶν ἀμεταβόλων ἐν σ...
by jeidsath
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:21 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 14
Views: 580

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

because that syllabification would leave ε- as an open syllable with a short vowel, and hence a short/light syllable. I don't think that this is the case. ἀλλ’ ἄγε λῆγ’ ἔριδος, μηδ ὲ ξ ίφος ἕλκεο χειρί My impression was the syllabification doesn't have anything to do with the meter, and we know wha...
by jeidsath
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:38 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Present infinitives instead of aorist infinitives
Replies: 7
Views: 274

Re: Present infinitives instead of aorist infinitives

I read this together with 1.37, where some of the infinitives must stand for primary verbs "φάσκων εἰδέναι τοὺς περικόψαντας τοὺς Ἑρμᾶς, καὶ εἶναι αὐτοὺς εἰς τριακοσίους." I assumed that some of the ones in 1.38 did too, especially after the first sentence quoted, where he begins to tell the story o...
by jeidsath
Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:05 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Rumi's 13th century Greek verse
Replies: 4
Views: 254

Re: Rumi's 13th century Greek verse

Yes, you're right. Archive.org shows it in Greek characters in the first edition of Elliot, and it's only digital versions that have a transliteration. I have the collected works of Jeffers though, which has his in the English characters. Ezra Pound, who often switches to Greek, seems always to use ...
by jeidsath
Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:40 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Rumi's 13th century Greek verse
Replies: 4
Views: 254

Re: Rumi's 13th century Greek verse

Maybe he had only learned Greek as a spoken language. So he transliterates into his native script, as bilingual people do today. Besides, he's a poet and concerned with the sound of speech. Here is T.S. Elliot in The Wasteland: Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere, ...
by jeidsath
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:59 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Rumi's 13th century Greek verse
Replies: 4
Views: 254

Rumi's 13th century Greek verse

Greek Verses of Rumi & Sultan Walad It appears that Rumi wrote some poetry in Greek (but in an Arabic script). The following (rather amazing) page is from Textkit fellow opoudjis. (See also How are Rumi's poems in Greek? ) The manuscripts are in Arabic script, without vowel pointings, making the te...
by jeidsath
Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:41 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Offended by modern phonology in Ancient Greek classroom
Replies: 38
Views: 13407

Re: Offended by modern phonology in Ancient Greek classroom

The last time that I was at Powell's, there was an extremely annoying man combing through the entire foreign language book section, while conducting a cell-phone conversation with another person apparently checking the Amazon used book prices and telling him whether to buy them or not. Original pron...
by jeidsath
Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:27 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5996

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

Isocrates Areopagiticus 21-25 Οἱ γὰρ κατ’ ἐκεῖνον τὸν χρόνον τὴν πόλιν διοικοῦντες κατεστήσαντο πολιτείαν οὐκ ὀνόματι μὲν τῷ κοινοτάτῳ καὶ πραοτάτῳ προσαγορευομένην, ἐπὶ δὲ τῶν πράξεων οὐ τοιαύτην τοῖς ἐντυγχάνουσι φαινομένην, οὐδ’ ἣ τοῦτον τὸν τρόπον ἐπαίδευε τοὺς πολίτας ὥσθ’ ἡγεῖσθαι τὴν μὲν ἀκολ...
by jeidsath
Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:32 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Perfect Imperative Active?
Replies: 5
Views: 215

Re: Perfect Imperative Active?

Please continue to ask as many questions as you'd like. That is what this forum is for.
by jeidsath
Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Are there second / third person dual Participles?
Replies: 4
Views: 198

Re: Are there second / third person dual Participles?

I actually ran into one this morning, reading the next section of Bowen's Unseens:

ὅτι δυοῖν ἰσοτήτοιν νομιζομέναιν εἶναι
by jeidsath
Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:17 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Reading old textkit Greek
Replies: 4
Views: 203

Re: Reading old textkit Greek

Noah Frederick was kind enough to share his converter code with me when I asked him about it, and he has in fact opensourced it here: https://github.com/noahfrederick/spionic I'm really thankful to him for this, and it has made a big difference for being able to fix Textkit's decade-old SPIonic post...
by jeidsath
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:40 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 396

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

Explanations of the LXX rendering could range from mistranslation to having a different Vorlage. I don't think that Hekebolos' gloss from προέχω is correct [was he thinking προσέχω?]. I would imagine that this is the meaning that they had in mind: LSJ προέχω B.II.1 in running, to be the first, have...
by jeidsath
Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:34 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Reading old textkit Greek
Replies: 4
Views: 203

Re: Reading old textkit Greek

I may write a script to fix it in the database. However, until that time, here is a cheat key: http://www.drshirley.org/fonts/SPIonic.html And a converter: https://noahfrederick.com/spionic-unicode-converter/ ἠνίδ’, ὦ Τυροῖ, φιλία νεᾶνις, νῦν πέφευκας, εὐπατέρεια μόσχε καλλίμορφέ τ’ Αἰολίδου τυράννο...
by jeidsath
Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:59 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5996

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

Thank you. I'm sorry, but I still have some more questions, if you don't mind. I don't understand what τι is doing, which is why I was trying to attach it to τοῦ λοιποῦ χρόνου. Apparently that's not right. What is its force? Oh, καίνω a byform of κτείνω, nothing to do with καινός. I thought that thi...
by jeidsath
Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Reading Suggestions
Replies: 7
Views: 396

Re: Reading Suggestions

I've read the Faenum texts, and liked them. There were some typos, but it's not bad.

Helm's Apology, on the other hand, is the best example of its type that I've ever seen. Very good detail on notes and links to Smyth. Especially if you're interested in reading some Plato.
by jeidsath
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:54 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5996

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

Thank you for the context. It makes a lot more sense now. I assumed that the first line was 3rd person, referring to herself, and was confused by the rest. Also, I mistakenly took ἐγγελῶσα as an aorist 1st-person, which would actually have been ἐνεγέλασα. Thanks for the explanation of πρὸς ταῦτα. Co...
by jeidsath
Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:55 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5996

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

I looked up Herodotus at the Zoo, which I'll save until I've read a bit more Herodotus. But the Wikipedia entry on the Gaisford Prize was interesting. I downloaded an audiobook of Zuleika Dobson to listen to later. Sophocles: Electra 804-822 Ηλ. ἆρ’ ὑμὶν ὡς ἀλγοῦσα κὠδυνωμένη δεινῶς δακρῦσαι κἀπικωκ...
by jeidsath
Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5996

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

θαφθεῖσι δέ σφι αὐτοῦ ταύτῃ τῇ περ ἔπεσον καὶ τοῖσι πρότερον τελευτήσασι ἢ <τοὺς> ὑπὸ Λεωνίδεω ἀποπεμφθέντας οἴχεσθαι, ἐπιγέγραπται γράμματα λέγοντα τάδε -- This is hard if not impossible to put into readable English without tinkering with the syntax. "For them and for those who died before those w...
by jeidsath
Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:39 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 5996

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

Herodotus 7.226.1 - 228.2 Λακεδαιμονίων δὲ καὶ Θεσπιέων τοιούτων γενομένων ὅμως λέγεται ἀνὴρ ἄριστος γενέσθαι Σπαρτιήτης Διηνέκης· τὸν τόδε φασὶ εἰπεῖν τὸ ἔπος πρὶν ἢ συμμεῖξαί σφεας τοῖσι Μήδοισι, πυθόμενον πρός τευ τῶν Τρηχινίων ὡς ἐπεὰν οἱ βάρβαροι ἀπίωσι τὰ τοξεύματα, τὸν ἥλιον ὑπὸ τοῦ πλήθεος τ...