Search found 3167 matches

by mwh
Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:48 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Trip to Greece - advice?
Replies: 13
Views: 566

Re: Trip to Greece - advice?

You might try Arachova (ancient Karyai, fascinating history), just a few kilometers from Delphi itself. It’s gone upscale since I was first there in the midsixties. And you don’t need to go to Naxos for a cave. There’s one right there, the Corycian cave, extremely old and famous. Pausanias gave it a...
by mwh
Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:30 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: The Blind Poet and the Blind Reader
Replies: 33
Views: 684

Re: The Blind Poet and the Blind Reader

For Seneca’s Thyestes I too would recommend Tarrant’s commentary, for experienced readers at any rate. Like Boyle (but less immoderately), he refines T.S. Eliot’s criticism of Senecan tragedy that the characters have no emotional depth, and that they all speak “in the same voice and at the top of it...
by mwh
Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:23 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: The Blind Poet and the Blind Reader
Replies: 33
Views: 684

Re: The Blind Poet and the Blind Reader

Seneca, Is there nothing in Martindale that you will not parrot? All your posts are now so very predictable I have to admit I no longer bother reading them. Martindale’s message was quite simple, and can be summed up in a single paragraph (as you illustrate by quoting from the blurb). I’m not denyin...
by mwh
Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:11 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Third Declension
Replies: 5
Views: 194

Re: Third Declension

Lukas, You were asking about the accusative of ὕδωρ. Since it’s neuter, the accusative is identical with the nominative. That’s true of all neuters, so you always have to decide from the context whether a neuter is nominative or accusative. (The vocative would also be ὕδωρ. Hylander’s “(except dimin...
by mwh
Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:44 am
Forum: Composition Board
Topic: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν
Replies: 165
Views: 40649

Re: ΛΕΞΙΚΟΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΝ ἐν εἰκόσιν

Joel, Will you explain to your daughter why it's a horse-river rather than a river-horse?
by mwh
Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:38 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Looking for Principle Parts Catalogs
Replies: 8
Views: 197

Re: Looking for Principle Parts Catalogs

Just to point out that you don't mean the principle parts but the principal parts, i.e. the main parts, from which the other forms can be derived. I wouldn't mention it but the error seems to be ever more pervasive and it irks me in its meaninglessness. I've seen Greek grammars in English that list ...
by mwh
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:59 am
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Trip to Greece - advice?
Replies: 13
Views: 566

Re: Trip to Greece - advice?

My first trip to Greece was on a school trip. We yelled “Peasants!” out of the train windows at the people working in the fields (I’m not proud of that) and clambered all over the lion gate at Mycenae, with nothing and no-one to stop us. My second trip was as a first-year undergraduate, with a new g...
by mwh
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:26 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL
Replies: 52
Views: 4473

Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

I think I’m just going to finish reading this chapter that I’m on in Orberg’s book, which is the last chapter on Vergil, and then pick up Caesar’s the Gallic War. Or do you all think that I should think just ditch Orberg already and pick up on Caesar already? What do you think mwh? Despite my post ...
by mwh
Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:59 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL
Replies: 52
Views: 4473

Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Do you or mwh have any other better suggestion as to how to learn Latin? I believe I already asked him this but he seems to have not noticed it. The only blanket advice I can give is Read as much Latin prose as you can. For simple Latin (and a thumbnail sketch of Roman history) Eutropius is often u...
by mwh
Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:24 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL
Replies: 52
Views: 4473

Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Oh, I don't know. [Etc.] Oh come off it Barry. Even with the Vergilian original in front of you failed to see that something was amiss with what the poster had miscopied, and thought that made sense when it quite clearly didn’t. Not any amount of your searching through the OLD and L&S and the Perse...
by mwh
Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:02 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL
Replies: 52
Views: 4473

Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:01 pm
What's interesting is that by leaving out vera, you created a sentence that still makes sense
No. Pariter ac falsa narrabat makes no more sense than “equally told and false tales” does. (That’s why it was easy to see that vera must have dropped out.)
by mwh
Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:13 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL
Replies: 52
Views: 4473

Re: Some more questions from LLPSI Cap XL

I’m guessing the book has—or should have—vera before ac falsa.

But how I detest such paraphrasing! It’s a sin to read Vergil in anything other than the original.

Incidentally, search Textkit for monstrum horrendum and you’ll find a fun little thread.
by mwh
Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:10 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Chapter 10 Question
Replies: 4
Views: 179

Re: Chapter 10 Question

In a sentence such as τοῖς πλείστοις ἡ ἡδονὴ οὐκ ἔστι τὸ μέτρον τῆς ἀρετῆς, οὐκ ἔστι is not emphatic. It just means “isn’t.” (X is not Y.) If the sentence were just τοῖς πλείστοις ἡ ἡδονὴ οὐκ ἔστι, it would mean “doesn’t exist.” (X is not.) But I suggest we leave the discussion right there, or it wi...
by mwh
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:53 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Chapter 10 Question
Replies: 4
Views: 179

Re: Chapter 10 Question

No. This is the prescribed accentuation for εστι(ν) after οὐκ. Accentuation of εστι is something else I wouldn't worry about at this stage (if ever). Better to correct your accentuation of μετρὸν.
by mwh
Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:42 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Objective Genitive?
Replies: 14
Views: 446

Re: Objective Genitive?

Then I wouldn't worry about it.
by mwh
Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:56 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Objective Genitive?
Replies: 14
Views: 446

Re: Objective Genitive?

I wouldn’t put it like that, no, but if you understand what I wrote, we can call it a day.
by mwh
Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:17 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Objective Genitive?
Replies: 14
Views: 446

Re: Objective Genitive?

We've got too much going on here now. Let me dial it back. So would ἐπιθυμεῖ be a subjective genitive? No, not at all. Subjective genitives, like objective genitives and like genitives in general, are nouns . ἐπιθυμεῖ is a verb . So if a noun comes before the verbal noun, it is subjective genitive, ...
by mwh
Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:52 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: exercise in Morwood, query
Replies: 16
Views: 696

Re: exercise in Morwood, query

True, but the postponed preposition would be alien to the style of these sententiae.
by mwh
Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:01 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: exercise in Morwood, query
Replies: 16
Views: 696

Re: exercise in Morwood, query

That’s it (or "They towed the ships away empty").

If it were τὰς κενὰς τριήρεις or τὰς τριήρεις (…) τὰς κενάς it would mean “the empty ships” (κενάς attributive).
by mwh
Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:04 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: exercise in Morwood, query
Replies: 16
Views: 696

Re: exercise in Morwood, query

τὰς ἡδονας θὴρευε τὰς μετὰ δὸξης. I hope it didn't escape attention that this is a line of verse: the meter is dogmatic trimeter. A joke? a “dogmatic trimeter” being one that μετὰ δόξης makes unmetrical? A good many of these maxims have metrical affinity without being metrical, and this is one of t...
by mwh
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:53 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Homeric psychology
Replies: 18
Views: 894

Re: Homeric psychology

Well, we all know that the Welsh can call spirits from the vasty deep. I once spent a year in Wales, if Cardiff counts as Wales. The Welsh sat in a little bunch in the corner casting nasty glances at Anglos like me, understandably enough, given all that the English had done to suppress the language....
by mwh
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:23 am
Forum: Composition Board
Topic: The Wizard of Oz
Replies: 3
Views: 271

Re: The Wizard of Oz

ad domum > recta ad d. Ὦ > Ὤ Can σίφων really mean a cyclone? Wouldn’t πρηστήρ do? If not, paraphrase, e.g. δῖνός τις ανέμου or ἄνεμος δεινῶς δινεύων præteriit > currens pr. māterteræ Emmæ > ad m.am Emmam Similarly the Greek (where not διῆλθε: τρέχων παρῆλθε παρὰ?) Dōrothea autem dē turbinis potestā...
by mwh
Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:12 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: exercise in Morwood, query
Replies: 16
Views: 696

Re: exercise in Morwood, query

Joel’s self-edit is right. Since there’s no article with γῆρας there’s no article with μετὰ πενίας (which is technically free to be taken with either the noun or the verb, but only makes sense with the noun). But bedwere, Aetos and seneca all already put Hugh right on the Isocrates sentence. What ma...
by mwh
Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:20 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Homeric psychology
Replies: 18
Views: 894

Re: Homeric psychology

As to othering, Homeric society is different from ours, just as it's essentially the same. And in some ways it is primitive (Dodds, Burkert), just as ours is. But there’s nothing primitive about the poet’s sensibility. But yes, pinning on a single label is bound to be simplistic and reductive (reduc...
by mwh
Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:13 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Homeric psychology
Replies: 18
Views: 894

Re: Homeric psychology

It was the anthropological shame:guilt differentiation that I had in mind, though I wasn’t aware that it still enjoyed such currency as it did when I was a student (and reading Dodds’ Irrationality book, which I recommend). You make the same point that I did about sincerity and societal uniformity, ...
by mwh
Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:11 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Homeric psychology
Replies: 18
Views: 894

Re: Homeric psychology

Of course what people say by way of apology in movies or novels or especially today in real life ("I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings") may not be sincere. But in Homer, or in archaic Greece? And I thought we were talking about what people feel rather than what they say (though in Homer they generall...
by mwh
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:26 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Homeric psychology
Replies: 18
Views: 894

Re: Homeric psychology

We seem to be obsessed about the sincerity of our feelings, about our "true sentiments", which seems to be absent in Homer. We also care a lot about how other people "feel" about what we do or say to them, whereas Homer concentrates on how they react. Well, how can feelings not be sincere? In Homer...
by mwh
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:00 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Homeric psychology
Replies: 18
Views: 894

Re: Homeric psychology

Let me see if I understand what Paul is saying. I expect we can all agree that “characters do not interact with others with the purpose of creating a psychological response that has no immediate repercussions.” Could we say that that’s because it’s the immediate repercussions, the immediate effect o...
by mwh
Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:37 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: best edition of aeneid
Replies: 11
Views: 1073

Re: best edition of aeneid

I'd say the best edition is Mynors' OCT. But maybe that's not what you mean by "edition."
by mwh
Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:42 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Horace Odes I.24
Replies: 8
Views: 522

Re: Horace Odes I.24

Funny, my experience was just the opposite. I always loved the Odes, but I struggled with the hexameter stuff and still do. At least it’s not Persius. “I am the very model of a modern consolatio.” As you say, it’s very formal. Nothing wrong with that, but I find the slick moralizing weak and off-put...
by mwh
Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:10 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: After Machen
Replies: 11
Views: 843

Re: After Machen

Barry, A brief rejoinder, then you can say whatever you want. I stand by all the points I made. Your knee-jerk response was all too predictable. People learning English don’t start with the English of 500 years ago. Of course classical Greek can provide a “smooth entry” into koine but the reverse is...
by mwh
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:20 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: After Machen
Replies: 11
Views: 843

Re: After Machen

A few points. — If all you’re interested in is New Testament Greek, you don’t need to bother learning classical Greek first. Otherwise, you should. — The trouble with most NT grammar books is that they treat koine Greek almost as if it were classical Greek, effacing the difference. (I’ve taken a loo...
by mwh
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: What are the most remarkable differences between Attic Greek and Ionic? And between new Ionic and old?
Replies: 2
Views: 233

Re: What are the most remarkable differences between Attic Greek and Ionic? And between new Ionic and old?

That wiki article needs replacing, but I’m not about to do that!

It’s true that Attic is not very different from Anacreon’s Ionic, but Anacreon’s ἥ κου νῦν ἐπὶ Ληθαίου δίνῃσι would in Attic be που and δίναις.
That illustrates the two most notable dialectal differences.
by mwh
Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:42 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: need help on inflection
Replies: 5
Views: 250

Re: need help on inflection

Yes, ἦλθαν = ἦλθον and εἶδαν = εἶδον, 3 pl. It’s a matter of linguistic leveling. The –α –ας –εν –αμεν –ατε –αν endings of the “weak” aorist (as in ἔμειναν here) gradually drive out the original “strong” aorist endings –ον –ες etc (which coincide with the imperfect endings). So you will find εἶπα "I...
by mwh
Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:58 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Vacation reading
Replies: 62
Views: 2364

Re: Vacation reading

At its best this board makes it possible for a bunch of scattered people to be digitally in the same room together, and imagine if we were all resorting to the LSJ or Google in a conversation. But Joel this is Textkit, not any old chat room, and I’d say it’s at its best when people come for help an...
by mwh
Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:54 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?
Replies: 13
Views: 770

Re: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?

Confirmation: Ov.AA.1.459f.
disce bonas artes moneo Romana iuventus,
non tantum trepidos ut tueare reos:
(You can guess the continuation: ... eloquio victa puella ....)
by mwh
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:53 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?
Replies: 13
Views: 770

Re: Attested Latin words with three vowels in a row?

There seems little prospect of reaching a definitive solution for the complex textual problems, which accordingly I won’t weigh in on, but as to the original question I don’t think that a word’s having three vowels in a row would in itself be much of an inhibition against using it, unless the result...
by mwh
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:57 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 211-238
Replies: 45
Views: 3092

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 211-238

Just popping in here again, to say I agree with almost everything Paul has written in this thread (which I confess I haven’t done more than skim). One slight reservation: I’m not so sure we should imagine Odysseus is only pretending when he says ἄντην δ᾽ οὐκ ἂν ἐγώ γε λοέσσομαι· αἰδέομαι γὰρ γυμνοῦσ...
by mwh
Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:29 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plato dictionary
Replies: 4
Views: 620

Re: Plato dictionary

Ast’s Lexicon Platonicum is what you're after. It's old but not superseded and never will be. You need Latin to make full use of it. You can find it on Google Books.
by mwh
Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:13 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 211-238
Replies: 45
Views: 3092

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 211-238

A final word of clarification, and then I’m out. αἰσχύνη the noun may not occur in Homer but the verb and plenty of cognates do (aischros and aischos among them), which should show you how the Homeric concept differs from aidos and cognates. I agree with the nimia in minimis diligentia dictum (as my...