Search found 3030 matches

by mwh
Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:20 pm
Forum: Composition Board
Topic: iambic practice
Replies: 3
Views: 79

Re: iambic practice

Well, you won’t improve on Euripides and I won’t comment on your attempt beyond saying that your best line is κοὐδείς κάτοιδεν εἰ μενεῖ τὸ ζῆν ἔτι and your worst probably οὔ μοι δοκεἶ. πῶς γὰρ ἂν; μου δέ συ κλύῃς, which doesn’t come close to being metrical. Incidentally, Heracles’ little disquisitio...
by mwh
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:18 pm
Forum: Composition Board
Topic: Latin for lollies?
Replies: 5
Views: 189

Re: Latin for lollies?

Very nicely done. ros tuum flebit, periture, lapsum nocte cadente is excellent (though the imagery is hardly Latin). In the final stanza tellus fit mage tota is I suppose defensible (since much of the earth already is coal) but mage is jarring with tota. I think the postponed ut with pyxidem is unob...
by mwh
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:56 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Dubious construction
Replies: 4
Views: 216

Re: Dubious construction

This is an artificially contrived ambiguity. In context (Plato’s version of Socrates’ defense speech) there’s not the slightest doubt as to the meaning. Besides, in the original sentence isn’t there a ἑκών too? That makes it absolutely clear (as if there could be any doubt) that the speaker is the s...
by mwh
Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 515

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

I wouldn't speak of reasons but of functions. And I'd deconstruct your tripartition.
That's all from me for now.
by mwh
Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:35 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille
Replies: 46
Views: 49422

Re: Tolkien's "The Hobbit" in Latin: Hobbitus Ille

Time magazine described Winnie Ille Pu on first publication as “a Latinist's delight, the very book that dozens of Americans, possibly even 50, have been waiting for.” But it sold a little more widely than that, and I was one who found it a delight, and very clever. Obviously it’s no way to learn La...
by mwh
Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:34 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Hæc enim sanctarum Scripturarum editio, cum Sixto v regnante patrata fuisset
Replies: 1
Views: 110

Re: Hæc enim sanctarum Scripturarum editio, cum Sixto v regnante patrata fuisset

“Pope Clement VIII's name is attached (“adhaeret”) to the Vulgate by happenstance. For while this edition of the holy Scriptures was prepared in the reign of Sixtus V, on his death it was published under Clement's pontificate.” The reference is to a revision of Jerome’s Vulgate overseen by Sixtus. C...
by mwh
Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:31 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 515

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

(@ ἑκηβόλος. Written earlier but not posted) δεῖ με … ἐγκαταβιῶναι ταύταις ταῖς συμφοραῖς. Your proffered alternative, δεῖ με … καταβιῶναι ταύταις ταῖς συμφοραῖς would scarcely make sense. He could have written δεῖ με καταβιῶναι ἐν ταύταις ταῖς συμφοραῖς, but the preposition was already incorporated...
by mwh
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Aorist /pres inf not in oration obliqua
Replies: 5
Views: 244

Re: Aorist /pres inf not in oration obliqua

The pres./aor. aspectual distinction, which I tried to explain in terms of “process” vs. “event” in response to the OP’s difficulty, doesn’t only apply in the infinitive, but much more broadly, across all moods. Xenophon says “We were willing to make him king,” using the present infinitive καθιστανα...
by mwh
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:28 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Two More Unit 10 Questions
Replies: 15
Views: 401

Re: Two More Unit 10 Questions

There was actually a thread about that.. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61883. (If Qimmik sounds awfully much like Hylander, there's a reason for that.)
by mwh
Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:40 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Two More Unit 10 Questions
Replies: 15
Views: 401

Re: Two More Unit 10 Questions

With all due respect to Randy, I’d say ignore what he says about the grammar. And I’d say Do not think about the English, think about the Greek, and get comfortable with the acc.&inf. construction of ##2 and 7, where the accusative is the subject of the infinitive. (Forget about “the governed main c...
by mwh
Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Aorist /pres inf not in oration obliqua
Replies: 5
Views: 244

Re: Aorist /pres inf not in oration obliqua

No. It’s a matter of aspect (Germ. Aspekt). Smyth 1865 describes it in terms of “continuance” (pres.) vs. “simple occurrence” (aor.). Or it can be thought of in terms of process (pres.) vs. event (aor.). Aspect is not a term Smyth has much use for, but more modern works do, and it’s a very important...
by mwh
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:30 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Opt after sub or imper
Replies: 3
Views: 142

Re: Opt after sub or imper

It's Homer.
by mwh
Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:16 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 16
Views: 1224

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

Joel, there are too many muddles here for me to wade through. Just one or two points that I think are both unarguable and fundamental. #Syllabification in verse is a regularization of syllabification in ordinary speech (as I said before). #In verse, unlike in prose, the syllabified unit is the metri...
by mwh
Mon Apr 01, 2019 4:58 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Xen. Memor. 1, 7, 3
Replies: 6
Views: 290

Re: Xen. Memor. 1, 7, 3

ουκ αν έχoις ο τι χρωο σαυτω. (You mistakenly typed έχεις. And γενεσθω is not subjunctive.) This is just one more example of opt. in a subordinate clause depending on opt.+αν in the leading clause, just like the one you started with, απολεσειεν αν ους ηκιστα βουλοιτο, and the examples in Smyth. You ...
by mwh
Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:58 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Xen. Memor. 1, 7, 3
Replies: 6
Views: 290

Re: Xen. Memor. 1, 7, 3

I too have reservations about Smyth’s formulations and his terminology, which to my mind make things unduly complicated and messy. There are subordinate clauses with optative, and subordinate clauses with subjunctive+ἄν (and of course subordinate clauses with indicative, and with plain subjunctive, ...
by mwh
Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:13 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ilias Latina
Replies: 5
Views: 396

Re: Ilias Latina

Well I imagine there were a good number of literate Romans who even if they could read the original Greek might well have welcomed a hexameter abridgment of the Iliad in their own language. But it’s impressively faithful*—I’m tempted to say it assumes familiarity with the original Greek. My point wa...
by mwh
Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:14 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ф580
Replies: 6
Views: 362

Re: Ф580

Definitely tentasset, as Hylander explained, backed up by the relevant A&G quote.
And Constantinus, you misquoted the Homeric verse as having πριν πειρησαιτ'αν Αχιληος. There’s no αν. That would be against both syntax and meter.
by mwh
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:39 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Ilias Latina
Replies: 5
Views: 396

Re: Ilias Latina

I shouldn’t think so. Just why it was written is not very clear, but it doesn’t look to me as if the Latin itself (as distinct from the narrative) is simplified. It's less simple than Homer’s Greek. The work served to make the Iliad accessible to the Greekless. Which is why in the West it effectivel...
by mwh
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:55 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: New doubt about Ion
Replies: 12
Views: 365

Re: New doubt about Ion

No there's no reason to suspect the given text. As I've tried to show, the construction is not ungrammatical, and even if it were that wouldn't necessarily be fatal.
by mwh
Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:31 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: New doubt about Ion
Replies: 12
Views: 365

Re: New doubt about Ion

There οἷά τε is neut.pl. used like the singular, and without a subject, “so high that it’s not possible to see its peaks” (ὡς used like ὡστε). ἑκάστῃ τῶν τεχνῶν ἀποδέδοται οἵᾳ τε εἶναι To each of the technai is it given to be (εἶναι) able (οἵᾳ τε). Infin. as regularly with (-)didwmi, epitrepw and su...
by mwh
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Word Order with εξεστι?
Replies: 20
Views: 477

Re: Word Order with εξεστι?

οὐ or μή? General rules. Indicatives are usually (not always) negatived with οὐ (οὐκ/οὐχ before vowel); so here οὐκ ἔξεστι (ἔξεστι is the main verb). So too with optatives. With subjunctives, always μή. With infinitives it depends; generally μή, as you can see. When learning constructions always not...
by mwh
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:44 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: New doubt about Ion
Replies: 12
Views: 365

Re: New doubt about Ion

οἵᾳ τε predicative with εἶναι, οἵᾳ τε εἶναι to be able, οἵᾳ τε εἶναι γιγνώσκειν to be able to know. There’s no problem about any of that, cf. oios t' eimi legein I am able to speak. οἵᾳ τε dative as agreeing with (or attracted to case of) ἑκάστῃ.
by mwh
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:13 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Word Order with εξεστι?
Replies: 20
Views: 477

Re: Word Order with εξεστι?

As to the original question: ἔξεστι can go just about anywhere, as most verbs can. However, verbs that take an infinitive, such as ἔξεστι, normally come before the infinitive, not after it. If the infinitive precedes, it has greater salience.
by mwh
Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:51 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: New doubt about Ion
Replies: 12
Views: 365

Re: New doubt about Ion

This is difficult, though the overall sense is clear enough. I think τι …. ἔργον is usually taken as the object of γινώσκειν, “So to each of the technai it’s been assigned by God to be able to know a particular ergon,” i.e. God has assigned to each techne the ability to know its ergon. This makes se...
by mwh
Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:29 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"
Replies: 7
Views: 315

Re: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"

Well, yes, certainly. I was responding to the query about Augustine’s erat in the species clause. I said "erat not est because the species in question (God’s appearance to humans) happened in the past." God himself (ipse) is presumably what he always is(/was/will be)—just as you’d explained. quod I ...
by mwh
Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:00 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Smyt 1824
Replies: 1
Views: 197

Re: Smyt 1824

You may find it difficult to think of the potential optative as referring to the future but if you think about it you’ll see that strictly speaking it does. E.g. ειποιμι αν “I would say” (sc. if you were to ask me), etc. etc. So too here with καί κε το βουλοιμην, “I would want it,” i.e. (If you were...
by mwh
Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:56 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
Replies: 9
Views: 240

Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12

It would be a mistake to think of ἐν ᾧ γὰρ ἄν τις πράγματι μὴ πείθηται as in any way abnormal.
by mwh
Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:55 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12
Replies: 9
Views: 240

Re: Incorporation Xen. Mem. 3, 9, 12

Deleted as duplicating Hylander.
by mwh
Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:51 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"
Replies: 7
Views: 315

Re: Augustine, de civitate dei, book X, chapter 13: "non est hoc quod ipsa"

No this use of quod is not a grecism. See Hylander’s explanation of hoc above. And erat not est because the species in question (God’s appearance to humans) happened in the past. @hlawson: quod can be the neuter singular (nom. or acc.) of the relative pronoun, or it can be a conjunction meaning (rou...
by mwh
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Μέγα μέρος όν
Replies: 4
Views: 260

Re: Μέγα μέρος όν

Tegea is fem not masc.
No doubt Thuc cd have phrased it differently and used the fem pple (and αυτην) but after μεγα μερος he stuck to the neuter.
by mwh
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:17 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Οστις
Replies: 6
Views: 187

Re: Οστις

οστις is perfectly appropriate here, as ος would not be. I wouldn't call it rare. It’s not fully indefinite (not οστις αν), and not fully definite either. It would be ος if the reference were expressly to Soc and not just to someone ὥσπερ him!
by mwh
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Μέγα μέρος όν
Replies: 4
Views: 260

Re: Μέγα μέρος όν

No. μέγα μέρος is neuter, so the participle has to be neuter too. όντα is masculine, όν is neuter.
by mwh
Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:25 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 16
Views: 1224

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

I don’t know what you mean by “But.” Of course you can have syllable without meter. All prose has syllables. Syllabification in verse is a regularization of syllabification in ordinary speech, that’s all. Herodian is talking about consonant clusters which may result in either a light or a heavy syll...
by mwh
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:04 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ
Replies: 16
Views: 1224

Re: diachronic syllabificiation of ἐξακολουθῶ

You can’t have meter without syllabification. With ἐξακολουθῶ in prose or verse I think it’s safe to say the first syllable boundary would at all periods normally come within ξ, i.e. between k and s. Syllables like to start with a consonant if there's one available. The morphological integrity of ἐξ...
by mwh
Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:24 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Sub nomine et appellatione...
Replies: 1
Views: 187

Re: Sub nomine et appellatione...

τῶν νεοπίστων
by mwh
Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:03 am
Forum: Composition Board
Topic: Greek Iambics advice
Replies: 4
Views: 302

Re: Greek Iambics advice

I was not proofreading but offering a quick constructive critique, mentioning only the most important things. πλήν w/ dat. is fine after negative οὐκ ἔστι. Metrically defective. φέρ’ εἰπὲ πρὸς θεῶν· ἆρα τὴν μαχήν is a foot short (scanning θεῶν monosyl., for caesura). You could add e.g. thnde after ἆ...
by mwh
Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:41 pm
Forum: Composition Board
Topic: Greek Iambics advice
Replies: 4
Views: 302

Re: Greek Iambics advice

Nice work! With a few exceptions it’s technically competent (which is an unusual pleasure) and I mostly understood as I read it through without reference to the original. It’s creaky but fundamentally sound, and there are some fine touches. Too many wrong accents I’ll ignore. A few running comments:...
by mwh
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:57 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Verse accentuation changes
Replies: 10
Views: 524

Re: Verse accentuation changes

I don’t think αυτον etc. are ever enclitic, but I don’t think they’re ever emphatic either, at least in archaic and classical times; demonstratives (εκεινον, τουτον) are available for that. ἑ οὑ(ἑο) οἱ and σφας etc. in their various forms can be either enclitic (unemphatic) or orthotone in archaic G...
by mwh
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:40 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 6222

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

ἆρ’ ὑμὶν No not enclitic, just a metri gratia shortening of ὑμῖν. But phps it shd be enclitic ύμιν. No time for more. Oh, καίνω a byform of κτείνω, nothing to do with καινός. ἀλλ’ ἐγγελῶσα φροῦδος Not "I mock alone"! Ὀρέστα φίλταθ’, ὥς μ’ ἀπώλεσας θανών. ὥς not “whom”! Exclamatory “how.” νῦν δὲ ποῖ ...
by mwh
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:13 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens
Replies: 94
Views: 6222

Re: Bowen's Advanced Greek Unseens

To add to Hylander: Λακεδαιμονίων The Lacedemonians. Greek sometimes dispenses with the article, we don't. πρὶν ἢ συμμεῖξαί σφεας τοῖσι Μήδοισι. The ἢ goes with the πρὶν. Cf. πρότερον ἢ. ποιεύμενον = ποιούμενον yes, -εο contracts to -ευ in Ionic, -ου in Attic. Likewise πρός τευ τῶν Τρηχινίων above, ...