Search found 185 matches

by huilen
Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:30 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Propertius: The structure of 1.1
Replies: 5
Views: 2685

Re: Propertius: The structure of 1.1

Thank you very much for the recommendations. I've started by reading Butrica's article, which I've found very enlightening indeed. I'm almost finishing now with Book 1. I love it! The first elegy wasn't maybe the best starting point, but I didn't find the same difficulties in the rest of Book 1 (act...
by huilen
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:57 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Propertius: The structure of 1.1
Replies: 5
Views: 2685

Propertius: The structure of 1.1

I'm puzzled with Propertius' first elegy. Though I can identify clearly defined sections in the poem, I wasn't able to find any satisfactory (or even unsatisfactory) principle of unity. It is supposed to be a programmatic poem, so with more reason I feel so dissapointed that I cannot make any sense ...
by huilen
Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:36 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Setting up a reading plan for Latin Elegy
Replies: 4
Views: 3143

Re: Setting up a reading plan for Latin Elegy

Thanks a lot :D I think I will start with Ovid's Amores, and taking a look to Kindle's sample edition of Paul Allen Miller's handbook. Ovid is the most technically adept of the Roman elegists--I think he probably spoke, thought and dreamed in distichs. But much of the pleasure of reading him lies in...
by huilen
Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:44 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Internal rhyme in elegiac couplet
Replies: 9
Views: 4221

Re: Internal rhyme in elegiac couplet

huilen, yes do read more elegy. But Ovid would make a better starting point than Propertius, who is difficult and his text corrupt. You are totally right in that it wasn't a good starting point, especially Book 4! But note that I always hear you, and you inspired me to create this thread :wink:: ht...
by huilen
Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:37 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Setting up a reading plan for Latin Elegy
Replies: 4
Views: 3143

Setting up a reading plan for Latin Elegy

I'm trying to set up a plan for reading Latin Elegy. Could you give me some help making a representative (or capricious!) selection of texts, and choosing some bibliography? I understand the topic is immense, but I would like to dedicate some time to it, and I would appreciate some orientation. With...
by huilen
Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:06 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Internal rhyme in elegiac couplet
Replies: 9
Views: 4221

Re: Internal rhyme in elegiac couplet

I have to read more elegies :P, but I was considering that with this syntactical arrangement it is very likely that the agreeing noun and adjective will form sometimes an internal rhyme. (Though it is true that in mhw Greek example it occurs less often only with some of the genitives and accusatives.)
by huilen
Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:51 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Internal rhyme in elegiac couplet
Replies: 9
Views: 4221

Re: Internal rhyme in elegiac couplet

Thanks mhw and Hylander :D I will look for Wilkinson's book. So I see that internal rhyme is just an accident depending on this pattern of word arragement. I wonder if the Greeks were influenced in anyway by possible rhyme to choose this syntactical pattern (reading aloud some parts and marking well...
by huilen
Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:22 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Internal rhyme in elegiac couplet
Replies: 9
Views: 4221

Re: Internal rhyme in elegiac couplet

before the caesura and a adjective agreeing with the noun at the end of the pentameter (or vice versa), where the endings of the adjective and the noun are identical, but the rhyming effect began to be pursued for its own sake. Didn't know about that, but it makes much sense! I would like to read m...
by huilen
Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:58 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Internal rhyme in elegiac couplet
Replies: 9
Views: 4221

Internal rhyme in elegiac couplet

Reading Propertius' 4.4 elegy, I've noted there occurs an internal rhyme after the caesura of the pentameter in a significative number of verses. It does not occur always, but take a look to this example: ignes castrorum et Tatiae praetoria turmae et formosa oculis arma Sabina meis, o utinam ad uest...
by huilen
Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:13 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Catullus, 30.4-6
Replies: 12
Views: 6298

Re: Catullus, 30.4-6

After looking at this again, I have to admit that caelicolas latent for caelicolis placent is more attractive than I originally thought, and I'm not even sure that it can't be right. It meshes better with line 11. Yeah, and latent seems more proper with pagan gods (he actually says that a Christian...
by huilen
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:14 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Catullus, 30.4-6
Replies: 12
Views: 6298

Re: Catullus, 30.4-6

The best text may be George Goold’s. It’s certainly much better than Mynors’. As for Ellis, A.E. Housman notoriously said that he had the intellect of an idiot child. :lol: I've recently read Stephen Harrison's article The need for a new text of Catullus , which gives the "state of art" in Catullus...
by huilen
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:50 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Catullus, 30.4-6
Replies: 12
Views: 6298

Re: Catullus, 30.4-6

You are right :mrgreen:
by huilen
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:38 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Catullus, 30.4-6
Replies: 12
Views: 6298

Re: Catullus, 30.4-6

D'oh! You are right with the meter, I wonder if I can still replace nec with necque , so with the elision I get two longs, necque ut , just as the transmitted et me . What do you think? :P Thanks for your research and explanation. And yeah, I agree with you, here the sequence of ideas is quite clear...
by huilen
Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:11 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Catullus, 30.4-6
Replies: 12
Views: 6298

Catullus, 30.4-6

Hello! I started this week reading Trappes-Lomax, Catullus: A textual reappraisal, and I got obsessed with this passage from c. 30: iam me prodere, iam non dubitas fallere, perfide? nec facta impia fallacum hominum caelicolis placent, quae tu neglegis et me miserum deseris in malis. 5 eheu quid faci...
by huilen
Mon May 09, 2016 2:06 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Martial 2.8
Replies: 16
Views: 4742

Re: Martial 2.8

Yes I think that’s exactly it. The poem is in dramatic form—it’s not static. Martial finds himself forced to retreat, and in the end can only lash out, feebly. M.: If anything in these pages, lector, strikes you as unclear or unlatin, don’t blame me, blame the copyist. <Lector scoffs at such dising...
by huilen
Sun May 08, 2016 7:52 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Martial 2.8
Replies: 16
Views: 4742

Re: Martial 2.8

Thank you for your answers, I appreciate them all :D but the sheer pointlessness of saying the reader doesn’t improve these verses. How could he, now that they're there on the page? I think Huilén may be on to something. Multiple readings are quite commonplace in Latin authors so it would not be unu...
by huilen
Sat May 07, 2016 5:21 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Martial 2.8
Replies: 16
Views: 4742

Re: Martial 2.8

Thank you very much for the response. Your point makes sense: he would have ways to make it clear if that was what he intended. I think maybe I was not expecting the reader to be another writer, and that's why I interpreted it that way when I read it the first time.
by huilen
Sat May 07, 2016 1:48 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Martial 2.8
Replies: 16
Views: 4742

Martial 2.8

Hello everybody :) I would like to hear your opinion about this Martial's epigram: Si qua uidebuntur chartis tibi, lector, in istis siue obscura nimis siue latina parum, non meus est error: nocuit librarius illis dum properat uersus adnumerare tibi. Quod si non illum sed me peccasse putabis, 5 tunc ...
by huilen
Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:36 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Iliad 9, the story of Meleager
Replies: 4
Views: 2525

Re: Iliad 9, the story of Meleager

Your replies are great as always, thank you very much guys! :)
by huilen
Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:16 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Iliad 9, the story of Meleager
Replies: 4
Views: 2525

Iliad 9, the story of Meleager

Hello everybody! I'm completely stuck in this passage. ἣ δὲ χολωσαμένη δῖον γένος ἰοχέαιρα ὦρσεν ἔπι χλούνην σῦν ἄγριον ἀργιόδοντα, 540ὃς κακὰ πόλλ᾽ ἕρδεσκεν ἔθων Οἰνῆος ἀλωήν: πολλὰ δ᾽ ὅ γε προθέλυμνα χαμαὶ βάλε δένδρεα μακρὰ αὐτῇσιν ῥίζῃσι καὶ αὐτοῖς ἄνθεσι μήλων. τὸν δ᾽ υἱὸς Οἰνῆος ἀπέκτεινεν Μελ...
by huilen
Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:54 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Antigone 42
Replies: 3
Views: 1449

Re: Antigone 42

Thank you very much, your explanation is very helpful :)
by huilen
Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:59 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Antigone 42
Replies: 3
Views: 1449

Antigone 42

ποῦ γνώμης ποτ᾽ εἶ;
According to the translation, the meaning would be something like "what do you have in mind?", but I couldn't give grammatical sense to the sentence. The notes just say that γνώμης is a partitive genitive, but it didn't help :(
by huilen
Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:14 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Semonides (1)
Replies: 2
Views: 2034

Re: Semonides (1)

Thanks mhw for the detailed explanation, it is very clear now.
by huilen
Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:37 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Semonides (1)
Replies: 2
Views: 2034

Semonides (1)

Hello guys! I had troubles with the following iambic pentameters, could you help me with the scanning? μενουσιν ελθειν, οι δ' ετεων περιτροπας. u-/u-/--/... I think that I have problems with the fourth foot. πεμπει μελαινης Αιδης υπο χθονος. --/u-/... Should I assume that there is a dieresis on Αιδη...
by huilen
Sun May 17, 2015 11:29 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Herodotus,1.94
Replies: 2
Views: 1744

Re: Herodotus,1.94

Thank you very much mwh!
by huilen
Thu May 14, 2015 7:00 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Herodotus,1.94
Replies: 2
Views: 1744

Herodotus,1.94

Λυδοὶ δὲ νόμοισι μὲν παραπλησίοισι χρέωνται καὶ Ἕλληνές (a) , χωρὶς ἢ ὅτι τὰ θήλεα τέκνα καταπορνεύουσι, πρῶτοι δὲ ἀνθρώπων τῶν ἡμεῖς ἴδμεν νόμισμα χρυσοῦ καὶ ἀργύρου κοψάμενοι ἐχρήσαντο, πρῶτοι δὲ καὶ κάπηλοι ἐγένοντο. [2] φασὶ δὲ αὐτοὶ Λυδοὶ καὶ τὰς παιγνίας τὰς νῦν σφίσι τε καὶ Ἕλλησι κατεστεώσα...
by huilen
Thu May 14, 2015 1:59 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Herodotus,1.86
Replies: 1
Views: 1433

Herodotus,1.86

Hello everybody, I've been reading the histories of Herodotus lately, trying to achieve some fluency reading prose, and I have many questions for you! I will start by this last one that has puzzled me: Book 1, chapter 86 ὁ δὲ συννήσας πυρὴν μεγάλην ἀνεβίβασε ἐπ᾽ αὐτὴν τὸν Κροῖσόν τε ἐν πέδῃσι δεδεμέ...
by huilen
Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Materials for reading Herodotus
Replies: 38
Views: 26154

Re: Materials for reading Herodotus

Hi! I've found the commentary of Geoffrey Steadman for Herodotus, Book 1 very useful:
http://geoffreysteadman.com/files-herodotus/
The notes are focused on providing help with the grammar, which is exactly what I need, but I don't know if this is your case.
by huilen
Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:24 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Help me to sketch a plan of reading to this year
Replies: 8
Views: 2801

Re: Help me to sketch a plan of lecture to this year

Hi, I hope you won't find any (minor) corrections to your English insulting - I certainly don't mean to be - but we really would just use "reading" here instead of "lecture" and we, erm, wouldn't use "faggot" there either. Maybe something like bundle? a bundle of books. :lol:, not at all, on the co...
by huilen
Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:08 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Help me to sketch a plan of reading to this year
Replies: 8
Views: 2801

Help me to sketch a plan of reading to this year

"The end approaches. You'll never get to read the Odyssey for the first time ever again!" I've finished the Odyssey this week, and maybe because of the end of the year, maybe because of the comment above, I feel a little nostalgic so as to post my usual questions. I'd just like to say that I've enj...
by huilen
Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:18 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey, Book 15, 16, 17 and 18
Replies: 5
Views: 3813

Odyssey, Book 15, 16, 17 and 18

Hello everybody, I hope you can help me with these questions that I've being accumulating on my notes. Thanks for the help, as always. Book 15 εὗρε δὲ Τηλέμαχον καὶ Νέστορος ἀγλαὸν υἱὸν 5. εὕδοντ᾽ ἐν προδόμῳ Μενελάου κυδαλίμοιο, ἦ τοι Νεστορίδην μαλακῷ δεδμημένον ὕπνῳ: Merry says: There is an appare...
by huilen
Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:51 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey, Book 14
Replies: 10
Views: 5804

Re: Odyssey, Book 14

Hello, thanks for the answers! Somehow I've missed your posts, I think I've never received the email notification. 6. ος picks up ᾧ οἰκῆϊ. “the sort of things a lord gives a household slave who does much labor for him (οι) and a god fosters his work in addition (επι), just as this work of mine is fo...
by huilen
Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:18 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Translation Il.1.124
Replies: 12
Views: 6571

Re: Translation Il.1.124

So what I'm thinking is that ἴδμεν is infinitive and that there is a negative implied so the sentance should read: "It is impossible (not) to know that much the common stores are laid up [in the ships]". ἴδμεν is also first person plural, doesn't it? http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=idme...
by huilen
Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:35 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey, Book 14
Replies: 10
Views: 5804

Odyssey, Book 14

By the way of this chapter of the swineherd, what an imagination has Odysseus for making false tales! 12. πυκνοὺς καὶ θαμέας, τὸ μέλαν δρυὸς ἀμφικεάσσας: How works the accusative here? ἐξαπίνης δ᾽ Ὀδυσῆα ἴδον κύνες ὑλακόμωροι. 30. οἱ μὲν κεκλήγοντες ἐπέδραμον: αὐτὰρ Ὀδυσσεὺς ἕζετο κερδοσύνη , σκῆπτρ...
by huilen
Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:01 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey, Book 13
Replies: 14
Views: 6219

Re: Odyssey, Book 13

Agamemnon wasn't such a nice husband either, you know... ;) Sacrificed his own daughter and all that. Yeah, well, no body is perfect! I suppose that that kind of thoughts are quite natural for ancient literature, but in the case of Penelope (just because of an esthetic preference, not moral), if I ...
by huilen
Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:09 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey, Book 13
Replies: 14
Views: 6219

Re: Odyssey, Book 13

It would not surprise me that Penelope should be rendered like a deceptive woman. I remembered that today I read on beginning of chapter 15 the following said by Athena: οἶσθα γὰρ οἷος θυμὸς ἐνὶ στήθεσσι γυναικός: κείνου βούλεται οἶκον ὀφέλλειν ὅς κεν ὀπυίῃ, παίδων δὲ προτέρων καὶ κουριδίοιο φίλοιο ...
by huilen
Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:28 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey, Book 13
Replies: 14
Views: 6219

Re: Odyssey, Book 13

2. ποτιπεπτηυῖαι - LSJ explains this as from προσπτήσσω, "crouch towards": I didn't know that verb. Both verbs sound a little original with the headlands as the subject anyway. I wonder what would be the perfect of προσπτ ύ σσω, I see now that it is very similar in form and I think it would be more...
by huilen
Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:17 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey, Book 13
Replies: 14
Views: 6219

Odyssey, Book 13

184. ὣς ἔφαθ᾽, οἱ δ᾽ ἔδεισαν, ἑτοιμάσσαντο δὲ ταύρους. 185. ὣς οἱ μέν ῥ᾽ εὔχοντο Ποσειδάωνι ἄνακτι 186. δήμου Φαιήκων ἡγήτορες ἠδὲ μέδοντες, 187. ἑσταότες περὶ βωμόν. ὁ δ᾽ ἔγρετο δῖος Ὀδυσσεὺς 188. εὕδων ἐν γαίῃ πατρωΐῃ, οὐδέ μιν ἔγνω, But what happened with the good Phaenicians? Answer me! Oh, thi...
by huilen
Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:03 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey, Books 11 and 12
Replies: 7
Views: 4170

Re: Odyssey 11-12

Sorry for this irrelevant post, but just to correct myself and be absurdly peacefully keeping other people with the last news of my mistakes :): I think I was quite erred with the first meaning of ἔνθα καὶ ἔνθα: I don't think any more that there is any notion of repetition in the expression itself, ...
by huilen
Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:28 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey, Books 11 and 12
Replies: 7
Views: 4170

Re: Odyssey 11-12

Hello :), thanks for the good answers. I've been thinking about ἔνθα καὶ ἔνθα: I've to admit that, although I've found the expression a number of times, I've never really internalized it, I suppose it is a question of keep reading as already suggested. Nevertheless, I couldn't resist the temptation ...