Search found 879 matches

by Barry Hofstetter
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:16 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Learning Latin only to understand Classics.
Replies: 4
Views: 142

Re: Learning Latin only to understand Classics.

Seneca beat me to it here. A good beginning text with clear explanations of the grammar and a healthy amount of readings and exercises is a vastly preferable approach. I think you'll have a good experience with Ørberg -- I recently reviewed it for a change in curriculum where I teach, and I was very...
by Barry Hofstetter
Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 87a
Replies: 15
Views: 229

Re: meno 87a

LSJ takes it as transitive citing this usage, if that helps:
LSJ wrote:4. apply a figure to a straight line, Pl.Men.87a; abs., Id.R.527a.
Liddell, H. G., Scott, R., Jones, H. S., & McKenzie, R. (1996). A Greek-English lexicon (p. 1327). Oxford: Clarendon Press.
by Barry Hofstetter
Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:32 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Reading early fragments
Replies: 9
Views: 315

Re: Reading early fragments

From which we infer that Barry does not read Plautus, or he would not say such a ridiculous thing. From which we can infer that MWH perhaps himself lacks a sense of humor, or perhaps that his formidable competence doesn't extend to seeing the tongue-in-cheek implicit in my post, or even that he has...
by Barry Hofstetter
Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:25 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70
Replies: 26
Views: 457

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 48-70

I simply enjoyed the coy Daughter-Father interaction. Let me shamelessly impute my cultural context: as a Father of two daughters, I had no problem recognizing what was going on. My daughters always "win." It's a good thing they have a mother who can "just say no..." :)
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:34 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 82 d
Replies: 6
Views: 143

Re: meno 82 d

No, that’s quite wrong. τις goes with πηλίκη (as its position indicates), not with ἡ γραμμὴ ἑκάστη. It needn’t be translated (and Lamb leaves it untranslated), though we could say “about how long”. Xerxes after the battle of Thermopylae asked how many more Lacedaemonians there were (Hdt. 7.234): νῦ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:57 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 24-47
Replies: 31
Views: 914

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 24-47

@Barry If this is what you thought I was saying I either ought to write nothing (cheers!) or explain myself more clearly (groans). I don't think Gadamer argues that things don't exist in the sense you are using it. Understanding depends on a series of cultural assumptions and all I want to do is to...
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: meno 82 d
Replies: 6
Views: 143

Re: meno 82 d

A little more context never hurts: φέρε δή, πειρῶ μοι εἰπεῖν πηλίκη τις ἔσται [82e] ἐκείνου ἡ γραμμὴ ἑκάστη. ἡ μὲν γὰρ τοῦδε δυοῖν ποδοῖν· τί δὲ ἡ ἐκείνου τοῦ διπλασίου; I think it's simply the indefinite adjective, "Come now, try to tell me how large any side of this will be..." But we don't use "a...
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:46 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Dat Rosa Mel Apibus
Replies: 4
Views: 197

Re: Dat Rosa Mel Apibus

Occam's razor, known in modern times as the K.I.S.S. principle, suggests that rosa is nominative. If someone really wanted to say "He gives bees honey by the rose" then I think something like per rosam mel apibus dat would work better. Also, the commentary you referenced seems to take it with rosa a...
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:33 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: ΣΥΝΟΔΟΣ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΗ July 14–20, 2019 at the University of Kentucky, Lexington
Replies: 5
Views: 591

Re: ΣΥΝΟΔΟΣ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΗ July 14–20, 2019 at the University of Kentucky, Lexington

Hey, if list members could report on their experience there, the highs and lows (if any), how they felt it helped their Greek and so forth, I think it would really be of interest to those of us stuck doing other things this summer.
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:27 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 24-47
Replies: 31
Views: 914

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 24-47

I agree that it's best to stick to Homer. When in doubt, stick to the Greek (or even when not in doubt)! But doubt seems to be the theme of the interaction here. I too will make these brief comments on the subject of epistemology my last. Gadamer -- read him in graduate school, along with Heidegger ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:37 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἡττᾶσαι (post-Classical)--why doesn't the -σ- drop out?
Replies: 3
Views: 106

Re: ἡττᾶσαι (post-Classical)--why doesn't the -σ- drop out?

If the sigma is part of the stem, or part of the ending, such as -σαι for the aorist infinitive active, then the "sigma drop" rule doesn't apply.
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:34 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: οὔ after εἴ
Replies: 4
Views: 113

Re: οὔ after εἴ

i just though that after εἴ what is usually used is μη, unless it is not an indirect question. Real users of the language don't always conform to our expectations. However: in a conditional clause μή is necessary, except, a. in Hom., when the εἰ clause precedes the apodosis and the verb is indic., ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:36 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: οὔ after εἴ
Replies: 4
Views: 113

Re: οὔ after εἴ

I'm not sure what your question is. It simply negates (ἔ)γραψε. γράψε drops the augment in imitation of Homeric forms.
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:00 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 24-47
Replies: 31
Views: 914

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 24-47

"Clothing was made, from start to finish, in the home, and in this task royal women and even immortals were engaged" (every high-status woman in Homer is weaving at some point) "The Nausicaa episode demonstrates that even a princess considered the laundering of clothes an obligation as well as an a...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:05 am
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: Reading early fragments
Replies: 9
Views: 315

Re: Reading early fragments

mwh wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:13 pm
Why not Plautus indeed? But if you set out to read all the surviving Plautine plays you will certainly get surfeited well before you finish them.
The best way to read Plautus is to watch "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum...." :D
by Barry Hofstetter
Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:13 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 24-47
Replies: 31
Views: 914

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 24-47

How are we able to perform this magical feat of divining what Greeks and Romans thought? Well, like you say, in one sense we’re not. These are the literary remains of dead people in a very different social context from our own, and our reception of these texts is inevitably coloured by our 20th/21s...
by Barry Hofstetter
Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:08 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Cic. de natura deorum, book i, ch. 31
Replies: 17
Views: 511

Re: Cic. de natura deorum, book i, ch. 31

quae sunt isdem in erratis fere quibus ea, quae de Platone dicimus . To be honest, I'm not seeing where the breakdown occurs, but perhaps you're not seeing the sequence of three relative clauses? Barry is a teacher, and perhaps he can be of more help, but let me try. You nailed it - excellent expla...
by Barry Hofstetter
Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:26 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: latin grammar via eddonnelly
Replies: 3
Views: 140

Re: latin grammar via eddonnelly

hi again textkit I am trying to get in touch with ed Donnelly. I know he hangs around this site.i want to enquire if his website dedicated to conjugating verbs and nouns is still available to peruse. I need to practise verbs to help me to understand such books as wheelock and lingua Latina. thanks ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:17 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: sympl 217 a/b conative impf?
Replies: 1
Views: 103

Re: sympl 217 a/b conative impf?

Yeah, I think these are just ordinary, garden-variety imperfects. Nothing in the context would indicate conative, I'm not even sure if "customary" describes it. These are simply things he was doing as circumstances permitted.
by Barry Hofstetter
Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:21 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Cic. de natura deorum, book i, ch. 31
Replies: 17
Views: 511

Re: Cic. de natura deorum, book i, ch. 31

Context: Cicero has introduced the problem of the nature of the gods. Do they exist? Are they concerned about human beings? Then he begins his narration of a conversation on this subject, the first speaker being Velleius. As I read it, Velleius is meant to represent a dogmatic fathead Euripidean. V...
by Barry Hofstetter
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: symp 217a a missing direct object?
Replies: 3
Views: 172

Re: symp 217a a missing direct object?

thanx for the clarification Questions which make us thing about the text are always good (I'm clarifying my response above, just in case anyone thought it had a negative connotation). I should add that it's actually the accusative+ infinitive clause that's the direct object of the verb. In English,...
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:23 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: symp 217a a missing direct object?
Replies: 3
Views: 172

Re: symp 217a a missing direct object?

I spend a lot more time trying to make sure I understand your questions than coming up with an answer. It makes perfect sense without supplying anything extra, and I fail to see how ἕρμαιον and εὐτύχημα are hanging in anyway. ἕρμαιον is either a substantive coordinate with εὐτύχημα, or more likely a...
by Barry Hofstetter
Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:37 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: In usum Delphini
Replies: 4
Views: 257

Re: In usum Delphini

Oui, c'est vrai.
by Barry Hofstetter
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:05 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: In usum Delphini
Replies: 4
Views: 257

In usum Delphini

Texts originally prepared for the Dauphin, with extensive introductions, notes and commentary all written in Latin. Shall we say a bit dated, but so cool... https://vivariumnovum.it/risorse-didattiche/propria-formazione/classici-latini-edizione-monolingue?fbclid=IwAR3xTgkcMPEc8MxdPgpGCTZ52G57OhDCNee...
by Barry Hofstetter
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:31 pm
Forum: Latin Poetry
Topic: best edition of aeneid
Replies: 6
Views: 407

Re: best edition of aeneid

Page, if you can find a copy: http://dcc.dickinson.edu/aeneid-vergil-books-i-vi Also Bennet and Greenough if you can find them. The commentary is stashed after the text in both, but they offer magnificent help for beginning and intermediate readers, not only grammar and syntax hints, but literary de...
by Barry Hofstetter
Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:15 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: EPISTLE OF BARNABAS (1st-mid-2nd c.) on Christ "in the flesh in/and a figure" (SOLVED)
Replies: 3
Views: 392

Re: EPISTLE OF BARNABAS (1st-mid-2nd c.) on Christ "in the flesh in/and a figure"

I'm not sure you can argue Docetism from the language of the text here, particularly since τύπῳ is qualified by ἐν σαρκί. I think it's rather in this sense: ② embodiment of characteristics or function of a model, copy, image (cp. Artem. 2, 85 the children are τύπ. of their parents.—Cp. ὁ γὰρ ἥλιος ἐ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:39 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: starting greek
Replies: 4
Views: 346

Re: starting greek

Actually, having all these texts available might be helpful, particularly if you don't have an instructor.
by Barry Hofstetter
Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:09 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: 2 Corinthians 5:1 Vulgate
Replies: 6
Views: 465

Re: 2 Corinthians 5:1 Vulgate

The subjective in such cases is normal And can be found even in classical Latin, for instance, Caesar, Bellum civile, 1, 23, 3: pauca Apud EOS loquitur quod Sibi gratia relata non sit. The first recorded example of this quod with subjunctive is Bellum Hispaniense 36, 1: legati Carteienses renuntiav...
by Barry Hofstetter
Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:07 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 1-23
Replies: 43
Views: 1598

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Book 6 Lines 1-23

Heubeck, West and Hainsworth disagree that it's from ἀλφάνω and suggests ἄλφι (grain) + ἔδω (eat), which is the translation Steadman is giving us in the gloss. I think I'm right in saying that ἀλφάνω and ἄλφι are unrelated. Ah, right. I had forgotten this other etymology. Chantraine offers an inter...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:08 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Caesar BG 1.1
Replies: 9
Views: 448

Re: Caesar BG 1.1

Yes, google maps was too rudimentary to be useful in those days... :) These are simply ways of expressing direction. spectant in septentrionem et orientem solem "They look toward the north and rising sun," i.e., the northeast. spectat inter occasum solis et septentriones "It looks between the settin...
by Barry Hofstetter
Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:23 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: JOSEPHUS' ANTIQUITIES (Books I-XVI) 4 Questions
Replies: 7
Views: 645

Re: JOSEPHUS' ANTIQUITIES (Books I-XVI) 4 Questions

Well, that was the point of the question, Barry. I would understand a neuter substantive for something like this: ἀνὰ δύο δὲ καὶ ἥμισυ [σπιθαμῶν] κατὰ μέτωπον But would he say " ἀνὰ δύο δὲ καὶ ἥμισυ λόγων"? Does it make as much sense to mark out laws like that? Well, I see no reason why not. ἥμισυ ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:21 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: JOSEPHUS' ANTIQUITIES (Books I-XVI) 4 Questions
Replies: 7
Views: 645

Re: JOSEPHUS' ANTIQUITIES (Books I-XVI) 4 Questions

Why is ἥμισυ neuter? It's treated as a neuter substantive: II. as Subst. in neut., ἥ. τιμῆς, ἐνάρων, ἀρετῆς, Il.9.616, 17.231, Od.17.322; τὸ μὲν .., τὸ δʼ ἥ. Il.13.565; πλέον ἥ. παντός Hes.Op.40, Pl.R.466c; ὑπὲρ ἥ. πάντων X.Cyr.3.3.47; ἥ. οὗ δεῖ Pl.Phd.77c, etc.; ἐν ἡμίσει τῆς νυκτό́ς at midnight, ...
by Barry Hofstetter
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:31 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Too late to become a classicist?
Replies: 6
Views: 385

Re: Too late to become a classicist?

35 years old? That's young, from the perspective of those who have more years behind than ahead. If you are at an "upper intermediate level" with both Greek and Latin, your best bet is to start reading authors, as much in both languages as you have time for. Getting a good command of the primary lit...
by Barry Hofstetter
Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:18 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: Odyssey Reading Group: Introduction
Replies: 13
Views: 985

Re: Odyssey Reading Group: Introduction

I actually have a hard copy of the Steadman text, having used it as part of a survey class that I taught several years ago. Looking forward to revisiting it.
by Barry Hofstetter
Fri May 31, 2019 2:04 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Ab urbe condita...
Replies: 2
Views: 219

Ab urbe condita...

I wonder if they will use historically correct pronunciation or Italianate?

https://www.thelocal.it/20190530/new-it ... yR6lvRProQ
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu May 30, 2019 6:35 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Pro Milone 47
Replies: 3
Views: 216

Re: Pro Milone 47

Now that makes perfect sense. Maximas, amice, tibi gratias.
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu May 30, 2019 6:23 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: Pro Milone 47
Replies: 3
Views: 216

Pro Milone 47

primum certe liberatur Milo non eo consilio profectus esse ut insidiaretur in via Clodio: quippe, si ille obvius ei futurus omnino non erat...

I understand the sense of it, but how to explain the first non?
by Barry Hofstetter
Thu May 30, 2019 1:13 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: 2 Corinthians 5:1 Vulgate
Replies: 6
Views: 465

Re: 2 Corinthians 5:1 Vulgate

It could be that previous translations had quoniam + subjunctive and he didn't feel it was a good idea to change it. The Latin is his letters is classical. That doesn't really answer the question, but it's good. Yes, the Latin in his letters is significantly different from his translation of the Bi...
by Barry Hofstetter
Wed May 29, 2019 10:05 pm
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: 2 Corinthians 5:1 Vulgate
Replies: 6
Views: 465

2 Corinthians 5:1 Vulgate

This was also posted to the Facebook group B-Latin: scimus enim quoniam si terrestris domus nostra huius habitationis dissolvatur quod aedificationem ex Deo habeamus domum non manufactam aeternam in caelis In classical Latin scīmus would certainly set up indirect statement with accusative and infini...