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by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:35 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: What is the morphology of Ῥινοκόλουρα?
Replies: 2
Views: 381

Re: What is the morphology of Ῥινοκόλουρα?

Well pointed out.

I had assumed a left to right etymology - (Ῥινο + κολ) + ουρα, rather than allowing for a right to left etymology - Ῥινο + (κολ + ουρα).

The sense of κόλουρος as “truncated” as in the nose looking like a truncated triangular pyramid makes good sense.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:38 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: 1 Sam 15:11 LXX
Replies: 2
Views: 1249

Re: 1 Sam 15:11 LXX

LSJ - παρακαλέω VI. Pass., relent, πρός, ἐπί τινι, towards a person, LXX Jd.21.6, 15, cf. 2 Ki. 24.16. 2. repent, regret, παρακέκλημαι ὅτι . . ib. 1 Ki.15.11. It seems that the implied meaning is expressed. That is similar to if we were to only say, "He came to work with a brave face." In the use of...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:48 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: What is the morphology of Ῥινοκόλουρα?
Replies: 2
Views: 381

What is the morphology of Ῥινοκόλουρα?

Since the time of Horemheb the town Tjaru (now El Arish), later called by the Greeks Ῥινοκόλουρα was an inhospitable dry boarder town where criminals were sent to and disfigured. Background . Map . Could somebody explain the morphology of the -ουρα part of Ῥινοκόλουρα? Is it an element that marks th...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:19 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: What happened to the third person imperative?
Replies: 3
Views: 818

What happened to the third person imperative?

I have a few questions about the (especially) later history of the third person imperative: Is the third person imperative inherited from PIE or an hellenic innovation? Did the forms survive right through the Koine period? What was it functionally replaced by? What are the earliest examples of funct...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:18 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Long vowels ᾱῑῡ
Replies: 9
Views: 1141

Re: Long vowels ᾱῑῡ

Are you wanting to restrict the search to long vowels in initial position or anywhere in the headword?
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:52 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ar.Arch.947 Bœotian θερίδδειν
Replies: 2
Views: 449

Re: Ar.Arch.947 Bœotian θερίδδειν

however problematic the imagery might seem. I have some ideas about how μέλλω θερίειν might work on its own, but together with συνθέριζε definitely complicates the possibilities. Given that the trigger happy censorial policy on Textkit curtailed my other recent discussion before it was never able t...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:25 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ar.Arch.947 Bœotian θερίδδειν
Replies: 2
Views: 449

Ar.Arch.947 Bœotian θερίδδειν

“Ar.Arch.947” wrote:μέλλω γά τοι θερίδδειν.
Is this θερίδδειν somehow a Bœotian pronunciation of something else than just θερίζειν? The meaning “harvest” seems out of place here.

The broader context can be read here
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:26 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη

In terms of onion skins, the δοκεῖ is the more outer skin. If the noun has been mentioned before it is in the nominative because grammaticalisation stays closer to the surface of the onion. If ἀνάγκη was in the accusative it is at a more contained level of the onion.
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:16 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη

@Constantine, if you do state and restate that ἀνάγκη is the subject, and if people agree with you, what do you actually achieve? It is the nominative. Saying it is the subject is an interpretation of its grammaticalisation. If it was another verb, the word subject would have more meaning. There are...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:07 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Are -νυμι (PIE *(Ø)-néwti) verbs always transitive?
Replies: 5
Views: 653

Re: Are -νυμι (PIE *(Ø)-néwti) verbs always transitive?

Similarly to how you have λαμβάνω in the present, ἐλαβον in the aorist. Did the nasal infix and nasal suffix originally have different functions? The infix looks similar to the Hittite infix -ni(n)- a causative marker. Did it have that function in Proto-Hellenic or in the parent PIE too or was that...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:04 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Are -νυμι (PIE *(Ø)-néwti) verbs always transitive?
Replies: 5
Views: 653

Re: Are -νυμι (PIE *(Ø)-néwti) verbs always transitive?

Wikipedia is a convenient presentation (format) of material. I see that the following is missing: Sihler (section 455) says that this form is "copiously attested, indeed productive" in Hittite, and "forms both deverbatives (causatives) and denominatives (factitives), so hu-is-nu-zi 'causes to live' ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:37 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Are -νυμι (PIE *(Ø)-néwti) verbs always transitive?
Replies: 5
Views: 653

Re: Are -νυμι (PIE *(Ø)-néwti) verbs always transitive?

"In G the suffix is common, and occurs in obvious neologisms like δείκνυμι 'point out'.... There is no semantic flavor traceable to the affix [emphasis added]" If *deyḱ- is the imperfective form of the verbal root, why was an affix creating an imperfective transitive added? The Wiktionary entry for...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:05 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Are -νυμι (PIE *(Ø)-néwti) verbs always transitive?
Replies: 5
Views: 653

Are -νυμι (PIE *(Ø)-néwti) verbs always transitive?

If the PIE verbal ending *(Ø)-néwti produced transitive perfective verbs.

Are all Greek -νυμι verbs transitive?

Wiktionary entry for *(Ø)-néwti
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη

I read that section a. as an exception. My first interpretation is as if it were saying that the indefinite pronoun (unlike other nominals) does not form the impersonal construction. That the section of Smyth was about the impersonal and the a. was a particular exception to what we might expect. The...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:56 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη

The a part 1983 ... a. δοκεῖ μοί τινα ἐλθεῖν for δοκεῖ τίς μοι ἐλθεῖν it seems to me that some one came is very rare. δοκεῖ meaning it seems good, it is decreed always takes the infinitive ( cross1984, cross1991). δοκῶ believe has the construction of 1992 c. Cp. cross1998. You said that it was pers...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:33 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη

As I said Smyth 1983 explains it all. Which part if that? 1983 The personal constructions δοκῶ, ἔοικα ( cross2089 c), δέω are regular instead of δοκεῖ, ἔοικε it seems, δεῖ it lacks (much or little). So with φαίνομαι for φαίνεται. δοκῶ γάρ μοι ἄδυνατος εἶναι for I seem to be unable P. R. 368b, δοκοῦ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:45 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη

Do you agree that there is a difference between, “The fruit seems good.” (based on sensory input) and “The fruit seems good.” (a way of thinking), where one is an appraisal and the other is an opinion? In the first case, the speaker is directing the hearer’s attention to something, while in the seco...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:11 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη

In that construction, the subject (actor) is grammaticalised in the dative.

The other way to say that is to say that there is an impersonal construction and a substantive verb.
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:17 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη

Nothing is affirmed in that phrase. S. is not making a point, he is addressing Agathon’s choice of words. There is no previous point that can be summarized and restated in a τοῦτο. My final understanding is that S. makes it clear that Agathon should have said οὐκ ἔχων ὡς ἀνάγκῃ γε. a few lines earli...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη

Are you meaning to construct the ὡς phrase with θαυμαστῶς, or the εἶναι with δοκεῖ? Ως with θαυμαστως: θαυμαστως δοκει ως ανάγκη εστί. Είναι depends on the elliptical predicate of ανάγκη, εστι. There is no elliptical predicate. If we take out the discourse level stuff and the θαυμαστῶς ... ὡς then ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:03 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη

ἐμοὶ μὲν γὰρ θαυμαστῶς δοκεῖ, ὦ Ἀγάθων, ὡς ἀνάγκη εἶναι· It wonderfully seems how necessary it is that it should be so. That rendering of yours has a wonderful poetic feel to it. The absence of any reference to anything allows us to freely imagine what it is saying. Are you meaning to construct the...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:17 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη

Perhaps you could verbalise your understanding of the syntax or present it diagrammatically. Which function of which ὡς are you working with?
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:58 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Somebody should have learnt Greek first
Replies: 1
Views: 427

Somebody should have learnt Greek first

Here is one of the times when knowing some Greek would have made a difference. http://www.tattoostime.com/images/401/greek-script-tattoo-on-side-rib.jpg https://www.tattoostime.com/greek-script-tattoo-on-side-rib/ It is obviously part of Psalm 22 (Heb. 23), but there are inaccuracies. It seems that ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:56 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Ανάγκη
Replies: 34
Views: 2895

Re: Ανάγκη Symposium 200 b

ἀνάγκη εἶναι· Smyth 1972f The following σοὶ δὲ πῶς; implies πῶς δοκεῖ σοι ὡς ἀνάγκη εἶναι ἢ εἰκός; The πῶς and ὡς point us back to the former part of the passage that you quoted. The section of Smyth that I have given the hyperlink for has something to say about when there has been a previous menti...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:41 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: No Greek words beginning with σλ-?
Replies: 1
Views: 463

Re: No Greek words beginning with σλ-?

... might it explain the α inserted in the biblical name Σαλωμὼν, where “Σλωμὼν” would be closer to the Hebrew? The need for a vowel doesn’t necessarily explain the choice of the vowel. My best guess as to why alpha was chosen is that it was the vowel in the word shalom “peace”, that it was derived...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed May 22, 2019 2:10 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Did the Ancient Greeks Know They Were Greek
Replies: 9
Views: 1686

Re: Did the Ancient Greeks Know They Were Greek

The evidence from Hebrew יְוָנִי (Yĕvaniy) and Sanskrit यवन (Yavana)suggest that the Ionians at least self identified by their tribal grouping. Within the “Greek” speaking area - as we call it, the term Ἴωνες only meant “Greeks” from a particular (Eastern) tribal grouping. Assuming that the name for...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun May 12, 2019 3:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Beginner greek principle parts.
Replies: 4
Views: 785

Re: Beginner greek principle parts.

Hi ascanius, What is the purpose of your learning them? Are you going to recognise them when reading, or do you need to do unseen composition exams, or do you need to reproduce them in an exam, or do you want to use them when speaking Ancient Greek at a Summer School, or do you want to recognise the...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun May 12, 2019 7:10 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 5427

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

In this post I want to consider the length of μεσημβρία. In my opening post I made the statement that within the context of the Psali that has been under discussion here, the three (Greek) words ἑσπέρας καὶ πρωῒ καὶ μεσημβρίας cover the time period of an entire day - the period of time when people a...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri May 10, 2019 2:20 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: family vs. relatives? οἰκία, οἰκεῖος, συγγένεια, συγγενής
Replies: 14
Views: 2146

Re: family vs. relatives? οἰκία, οἰκεῖος, συγγένεια, συγγενής

Where there is no meaning for a word or concept, it may be because it is implied. Where there is a shrap contrast between two meanings, it may be because we are wearing blinkers in expressing the meaning. For the first point, if someone were to say to you, "I am your colleague", and "We work togethe...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri May 10, 2019 12:28 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: family vs. relatives? οἰκία, οἰκεῖος, συγγένεια, συγγενής
Replies: 14
Views: 2146

Re: family vs. relatives? οἰκία, οἰκεῖος, συγγένεια, συγγενής

It doesn't make sense for them. Incidentally, the first meaning of house, dwelling, building, gets replaced by a Latin word in the Roman period and is what we still use today. Which word are you referring to? φαμίλια? Is οικογένεια more common but φαμίλια used informally? If it is φαμίλια, do you k...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu May 09, 2019 9:10 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: family vs. relatives? οἰκία, οἰκεῖος, συγγένεια, συγγενής
Replies: 14
Views: 2146

Re: family vs. relatives? οἰκία, οἰκεῖος, συγγένεια, συγγενής

οἰκειακός / οἰκιακός, οἰκετεία are good too.

ὁ θεῖος and ὁ νέννος mean uncle. By using the appellation you imply the family relationship.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu May 09, 2019 8:40 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 5427

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

Κεῖθι δὲ διψώουσα μεσημβριὰς ἔτρεχεν Αὔρη, And there came running thirsty at midday Aura herself, Page from LCL . a vaguely defined midday period during which everyone abstains from strenuous activity, and its origins lie in agricultural work, where the heat of the midday sun makes activity not jus...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu May 09, 2019 12:53 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 5427

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

Both of these passages illustrate my point: ancient societies weren't regulated by the precise time measurement that modern clocks make possible, for better or worse. At least for private arrangements, the present day Egyptians that I have met both here and in other places are not regulated by prec...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed May 08, 2019 2:17 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 5427

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

"Afternoon" in any event is a concept that has meaning in a society regulated by clocks and watches, where noon can be determined more or less precisely. Herodotus, seems to imply an "afternoon" (or "aftermidday") period in India. μεσοῦσα δὲ ἡ ἡμέρη σχεδὸν παραπλησίως καίει τούς τε ἄλλους ἀνθρώπους...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed May 08, 2019 1:31 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: The TLG all the way through. Anyone?
Replies: 10
Views: 1730

Re: The TLG all the way through. Anyone?

Good luck. Which is the one to begin with, one's favourite or one that is deemed expendable for practicing on? Is the last one the goal or the afterthought? Perhaps it would be better to read through the corpus at least twice, so that every work both adds to the competency with which you read the ot...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed May 08, 2019 12:16 pm
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 5427

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

Midday heat is given as one of the meanings in H Wehr Arabic English dictionary which is the best in existence Doesn't it give "afternoon" as a meaning then? No it doesn't and the lapse of time for الظهيرة in those countries is from about 12 pm to 3 pm I suggest you reapraise the value of the entry...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed May 08, 2019 7:40 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 5427

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

I probably should have translated μεσημβρινός, and μεσημβριάς more literally as "mid-day", rather than noon. Latin meridies is calqued on μεσημβρινός, but, except for astronomers and astrologers, the ancients (and especially poets) were little concerned with astronomical precision in telling the ti...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed May 08, 2019 7:31 am
Forum: Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Topic: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين
Replies: 27
Views: 5427

Re: μεσημβριάς Nonn.D.48.590. and إبصالية واطس للثلاثة فتية القديسين

Constantinus Philo wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 6:31 am
Midday heat is given as one of the meanings in H Wehr Arabic English dictionary which is the best in existence
Doesn't it give "afternoon" as a meaning then?