Search found 749 matches

by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:05 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translating "to" into Greek
Replies: 3
Views: 32

Re: Translating "to" into Greek

τα παιδια τον τυραννον την μοιραν τοις θεοις επιτρετπειν πειθει. I was not sure whether to use εισ, προσ, or use the dative case for "to the gods." The answer book used the dative. How do I decide which way to use? There is no easy way to know which one a particular verb uses. We need to learn that...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:15 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 13
Views: 360

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

Quite apart from all that, the Greek itself seems dubious to me sometimes. Just one example is "εὐψύχει!" for "farewell!" (and I am choosing that from the one page I am looking at, the same one as above). No one writing a book called "Sprechen sie Attisch" should be using "εὐψύχει" rather than the ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:25 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 13
Views: 360

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

In relation with this last part I´m afraid if the english translations I propose are more flexive and less rigid than the idiomatic ones, what do you think? I apreciate if you take a look. Due to censorial policy where I live, we don't have access to archive.org, so I won't be able to check the Gre...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:15 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 13
Views: 360

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

Woww, really apreciate your help. I'm going to put my hands on work, thank you. My numbering is off by 1. For example, 43.1: παυτηνί -> ταυτηνί is actually in 44:1. I misread the layout of the Memrise page, i.e. I read "<43" as the beginning of a sequence "<43 ... />", ie "The following contains li...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:08 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Looking for a memrise collaborator.
Replies: 13
Views: 360

Re: Looking for a memrise collaborator.

Here is my proof-reading of 15 lists (42 - 57). I suggest you check what I think are mistakes against your other references: Title: english an Ancient Greek -> English to Ancient Greek 43.1: παυτηνί -> ταυτηνί 43.7: νὲ Δία -> νὴ Δία 43.22: Andshe’s -> And she's 44.27: εἰσελήλυϙεν -> εἰσελήλυθεν 44.6...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:56 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?
Replies: 7
Views: 337

Re: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?

Markos wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:28 pm
a few which come to mind:
It wasn't my intention to use this forum as a place to list them, but in the apparent absence of such a guide, the things you mention are interesting nevertheless. Your presentation is balanced and non-dogmatic.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:53 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?
Replies: 7
Views: 337

Re: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?

This kind of thing is often discussed in the better exegetical commentaries, which often try to give the history of interpretation on any given passage before offering the author's own assessment. Since 97.6% of exegesis is driven by apologetical considerations, such discussions may or may not be h...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:49 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?
Replies: 7
Views: 337

Re: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?

The question itself needs to be questioned. My question is straightforward, needing only a yes / no answer. The "Idiots Guide to ..." series makes specialist knowledge available to the non-specialist. A barely disguised vague grab bag full of dubious assumptions need to be unmasked, one at a time. ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:39 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 396

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

Again in answer to my own question, so as to get other people's opinion of it, I think that the following has happened in the translation process: The LXX translator had a text with חֽוּשָֽׁה The LXX translator rendered חֽוּשָֽׁה by πρόσχες a form of προέχω, in the simplified meaning of "hasten" tha...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:08 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 396

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

Let me ask a question and answer it. What, then happened to the first part of the verse talking about deliverance / salvation (נָצַל -> σῶσαι) in the Vulgate? The versification is different. Let me rearrange the LXX and MT in terms of how the Vulgate gives its first verse: εἰς τὸ τέλος τῷ Δαυιδ εἰς ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:43 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 396

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina / intende

The first part is the translation from the LXX, the second part is the translation from the Hebrew. I saw that earlier post, but didn't understand it correctly, I think. Now, if I understand it correctly, the critical version of the Vulgate interlines the two versions... The critical version of the...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:44 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?
Replies: 7
Views: 337

Is there "An Idiot's Guide to Greek Disputes in Scripture"?

I'm not staking a claim or signalling an intention to compile one, but is there a booklet or website that briefly summarises the way that different doctrinal schools read the Greek of the New Testament as the basis for or in support of their particular claims? The only example that I remember from m...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:22 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 396

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

I think we need somebody to say definitively whether there is a form πρόσσχες that could have been used? FWIW Vita Barlaam et Joasaph 22.1 cuts to the chase and uses σπεῦσον. Ὁ Ἰωάσαφ δέ, μετὰ τὸ ἐξελθεῖν τὸν Βαρλαάμ, εὐχῇ ἑαυτὸν ἐδίδου καὶ δάκρυσι θερμοτάτοις, καὶ ἔλεγεν: Ὦ Θεός, εἰς τὴν βοήθειαν μ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:14 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 396

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

It is not plausible that this πρόσχες could be the imperative of προέχω, is it? Except that Jerome tends to translate with intendere, a good translation of προσέχω, not so much for προέχω. @Barry, are you saying that intendere is a good translation of προσέχω? The verb in the second part of Paslm 6...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:35 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 396

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

I like the use use to which Hebrew has been put in this thread.
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:23 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 396

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:03 pm
Yes, it does appear that the LXX translators have a different sense of the Hebrew:
Just when חישׁ is in the collocation לְעֶזְרָ֥תִי חֽוּשָׁה it seems.
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:03 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 396

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

Because there are two ways to parse this, let me bring this point up too:

It is not plausible that this πρόσχες could be the imperative of προέχω, is it?

ie. "Be excellent (surpass all other means) for my salvation."
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:16 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 396

Re: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

Explanations of the LXX rendering could range from mistranslation to having a different Vorlage. I didn't think to refer to the Hebrew. Apparently the same Hebew to Greek translation strategy was employed five times in the Psalms: Psalm 22:19 לְעֶזְרָ֥תִי חֽוּשָׁה, Psalm 21:20 εἰς τὴν ἀντίλημψίν μο...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Mar 06, 2019 2:14 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina
Replies: 16
Views: 396

Psalm 69:2 LXX to Vulgate πρόσχες -> festina

What was Jerome doing in the translation here? εἰς τὸ σῶσαί με κύριον ὁ θεός εἰς τὴν βοήθειάν μου πρόσχες Deus in adiutorium meum intende Domine ad adiuvandum me festina; The Greek "give attention to" is rendered in Latin by "hurry". Is that something required by the Latin language for this phrase t...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:33 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Oxford Classics degree overhaul
Replies: 16
Views: 878

Re: Oxford Classics degree overhaul

... Canon. ἑκηβόλος seems to regard it as the sum of all surviving literature . I think more commonly it is taken to be a value judgement on what is "worth reading" and I took you to mean this. While this characterisation is clearly an exageration (or a caricature), it is unlikely that Callisper or...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:20 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 641

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

@ἑκηβόλος I think our discussion has added way more information than I initially intended. I hope I'll be able to answer in a structured way. 1. I assume that if /bd/ are pronounced simultaneously then we are also talking about a single phoneme. Therefore I used writing /(bd)/. Another argument for...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:43 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Oxford Classics degree overhaul
Replies: 16
Views: 878

Re: Oxford Classics degree overhaul

In so far as people get through their degrees relying on translations and without actually learning to read the languages ... Time pressure placed upon students by requiring them to read quickly creates the need for coping mechanisms. Those coping mechanisms tend to keep things simple (sreamlining ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:38 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Oxford Classics degree overhaul
Replies: 16
Views: 878

Re: Oxford Classics degree overhaul

On the question of classical education; Language only programs pose a problem for satisfying the requirements of the various national qualification frameworks. Well developed subject knowledge, analytical and communicative skills can't really be attained simply by learning language. Simply language ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:21 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Which side of the road did the Romans drive/march/walk on?
Replies: 3
Views: 206

Re: Which side of the road did the Romans drive/march/walk on?

Alternatively, there is the issue of status. When a cohort of heavily armed soldiers or a rich citizen walks down the road, people are more likely to the right of way.

Wheeled traffic benefits exponentially more from established conventions than pedestrians do, because they can't move sideways.
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 641

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

Is it possible βδέλυρος survived as a learned word through written language and was reinterpreted as /βð/ while not in use in spoken language? I didn't mean to imply this but there is a difference between learning a word from written text or from the surrounding speakers. I see. I'm sorry, I misrea...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:49 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 641

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

I believe the question remains what principles led to /βð/ from /bd/ if they are considered a single phoneme /(bd)/. Or should we analyze /βð/ as a single phoneme /(βð)/, too? For that we definitely would have evidence. The standard Modern Greek /v/, the earlier bilavial /β/ that you are mentiining...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:33 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 641

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

I'm surprised to see that βδέλυρος survived until Demotiki with pronunciation /βð/. ... Is it possible βδέλυρος survived as a learned word through written language and was reinterpreted as /βð/ while not in use in spoken language? The whole family survived. It seems the sound is natural enough that...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:20 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 641

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

Yeah, the higher pitch is unnatural. ... It's supposed to be subtle. Hopefully it's something that will improve with practice. I'm guessing that you are thinking about the pitch accent as you are saying the words out loud. Native speakers don't. Now that I don't think about the tones of Chinese, th...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:53 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?
Replies: 22
Views: 641

Re: How pronunciate the βδ- in βδελυρός?

In the pronunciation system where β and δ are stops, you may find benefit considering the corresponding unvoiced set πτ along with βδ. Regardless of other aspects of ancient Greek pronunciation, we are pretty sure that both sounds were pronounced simultaneously, something very difficult for English ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:20 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Translation or translation?
Replies: 25
Views: 1279

Re: Translation or translation?

jeidsath wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:45 pm
Orwell's rules
What a narrow, "functional" appeciation of language!

Evidently, Orwell would not approve of Haigspeak, travel writers, Saturday morning food critics or Cloe magazine. The English language (and indeed any language) is much more than one man's narrow conception of it.
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:12 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Which side of the road did the Romans drive/march/walk on?
Replies: 3
Views: 206

Which side of the road did the Romans drive/march/walk on?

Given that Roman roads were two-way, which side did they move to when confronted with oncoming traffic/people?
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:25 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 425

Re: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

It all depends on what time of year. Look at that same hillside around March-April and it will be very green. This picture of סוסיתא taken on 15th April 2011 by AVRAM GRAICER ( CC BY-SA 3.0 ) shows what you are saying. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/%D7%A1%D7%95%D7%A1%D7%...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:42 am
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Oxford Classics degree overhaul
Replies: 16
Views: 878

Re: Oxford Classics degree overhaul

Most language learning begun at school needs to be continued into adulthood to be of much use anyway . I'm not sure what this means really. They are young students about to embark full-time on one of the planet's best current undergrad classics programs. How could they not continue their studies of...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:22 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Queen of Heaven cf. Kingdom of heaven, ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν.
Replies: 3
Views: 282

Queen of Heaven cf. Kingdom of heaven, ἡ βασιλεία τῶν οὐρανῶν.

This - the prevention of mis interpretation by intermediate students - seems to me the likeliest reason why the lists distinguishing accents may come in handy: between e.g. βασιλεία and βασίλεια , the greatest danger is that a student may simply not recognise the misplaced accent as they read: Ἤγγι...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:14 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Oxford Classics degree overhaul
Replies: 16
Views: 878

Re: Oxford Classics degree overhaul

Does the Classics programme there support an ab initio strand for those enrolling without a background in the languages or is it left up to the colleges to provide extra tuition to get "weaker" students up to scratch? Most language learning begun at school needs to be continued into adulthood to be ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:31 pm
Forum: Civilization and Culture of the Greeks and Romans
Topic: Anything concrete to back up the Ionian Migration?
Replies: 6
Views: 432

Re: Anything concrete to back up the Ionian Migration?

almound wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:54 pm
  • BABY says, "... But some baby habits stick...
A poetic reflection.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:33 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 425

Re: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

Thanks for the Latin lesson.

As an observation, for the Greek, πρασιαὶ πρασιαί is an image from the inhabited world of the garden set in the uninhabited world of the ἔρημος.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:39 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 425

Re: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:34 pm
ἔρημος simply means deserted or uninhabited, Latin "campus" as opposed to "ager."
Which Latin word does "cultivated land" come under? My presumption is that the "good" land where plants grow well would be used by humans, and not deserted.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:35 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 425

Re: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

Here is a hotlinked picture of Hippos (Sussita, Susita), a (not very green) location near Gallilee:
Image
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:14 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Mark 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)
Replies: 11
Views: 425

Re: πρασιαὶ πρασιαί Matthew 6:40 (and Longus 4.2.6)

Barry Hofstetter wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:36 am
groups of people contrasted w. the green grass Mk 6:40
Green grass? After a day of thousands of people in a desert(ed) place?

In my experience, garden beds have the bare earth between them, cf.
Mark 6:31 wrote:εἰς ἔρημον τόπον