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by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:10 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Routes - training as a Moden Greek L2 teacher
Replies: 0
Views: 70

Routes - training as a Moden Greek L2 teacher

If anybody were or was thinking of teaching Greek as an L2 or wanted some framework of learning and teaching which to structure their own sel-teaching, and wanted to do a course on it, the following might be helpful: Routes Or in (Modern) Greek Διαδρομές It is specifically for Modern Greek, but migh...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:01 am
Forum: Learning Latin
Topic: caupōna Clientele - dependant on class?
Replies: 1
Views: 99

caupōna Clientele - dependant on class?

Hi, I just have 2 small questions arising from looking into ποτιστήριον . First. Why does Lewis and Short cite the Greek word πέπω in their entry for popina? That word doesn't occur in LSJ. pŏpīna , ae, f.  πέπω , πέπτω, to cook, I.a cook-shop, victualling-house, eating-house (syn.: “caupona, tabern...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:40 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν
Replies: 12
Views: 442

Re: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν

At the risk of mindlessly driveling all over the page here, let me ask a few questions about the prepositional phrase. doesn't seem to be precluded by the grammar. How do you (other members) understand the difference between a prepositional phrase as the predicate following a verb to be as copula, a...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:30 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν
Replies: 12
Views: 442

Re: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν

Out of the four translations just quoted, only one was translated by people sensitive enough to the Greek to notice something like this one way or the other. Callisper's interpretation makes a lot of sense and doesn't seem to be precluded by the grammar. ... Quite delicious arrogance in your first ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:51 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν
Replies: 12
Views: 442

Re: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν

Well, if you're going to bring up that sort of contextual argument, we ought to mention another feature of Greek construction that I refrained from introducing in Lukas' ἔστι thread for reasons of simplicity. I'm not bringing up any 'sort of contextual argument.' I am stating how that line from Gal...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:28 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν
Replies: 12
Views: 442

Re: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν

But isn't it likelier that the law in question is the ὁ Νόμος of Galatians 5:14-15? Well, if you're going to bring up that sort of contextual argument, we ought to mention another feature of Greek construction that I refrained from introducing in Lukas' ἔστι thread for reasons of simplicity. Lukas ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:39 pm
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν
Replies: 12
Views: 442

Re: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν

Is it really worth pursuing what is said in a beginner’s Greek textbook in this way? No problem. I have rephrased the question in terms without reference to Mastronarde's rule. The comments I made two posts up in this thread about Mastronarde's rule are not some Galatea that I've brought into this ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:35 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: αὐτίκα v. ἤδη
Replies: 19
Views: 564

Re: αὐτίκα v. ἤδη

αὐτίκα = at once, immediately ἤδη = already; immediately; actually now When it comes to the meaning of immediately, do you see one or the other more often or both? Choosing a common word is not a bad strategy, but you could think about difference in meaning. They are both temporal adverbs, but the ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:28 am
Forum: Koine and Biblical and Medieval Greek
Topic: Gal 5:23 ἔστιν
Replies: 12
Views: 442

Gal 5:23 ἔστιν

In Galatians 5:23, we read: κατὰ τῶν τοιούτων οὐκ ἔστιν νόμος. M̷y̷ ̷q̷u̷e̷s̷t̷i̷o̷n̷ ̷i̷s̷ ̷w̷i̷t̷h̷ ̷r̷e̷f̷e̷r̷e̷n̷c̷e̷ ̷t̷o̷ ̷t̷h̷e̷ ̷D̷.̷J̷.̷ ̷M̷a̷s̷t̷r̷o̷n̷a̷r̷d̷e̷'̷s̷ ̷f̷o̷r̷m̷u̷l̷a̷t̷i̷o̷n̷ ̷o̷f̷ ̷t̷h̷e̷ ̷r̷u̷l̷e̷ ̷o̷f̷ ̷t̷h̷e̷ ̷e̷m̷p̷h̷a̷t̷i̷c̷ ̷ἔ̷σ̷τ̷ι̷ν̷ ̷t̷h̷a̷t̷ ̷i̷n̷c̷l̷u̷d̷e̷ ̷t̷h̷e̷ ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:46 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: παρειχε
Replies: 3
Views: 144

Re: παρειχε

Here is a talk around of what Bedwere has quoted concisely. To help, I have put some headings in my explanation, so that you can more readily choose what of my reply might be more applicable to you: Overview There has been a consonant lost from this word at some (not so early) point in the pre-histo...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:52 pm
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What's the weather like today (Ἑλληνιστί)
Replies: 3290
Views: 1028857

Re: What's the weather like today (Ἑλληνιστί)

Markos wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:31 pm
(δυσυποπτεύω?)
ἑκοῦσα δυσμεναίνει.
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:34 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: A background of pretty green circles
Replies: 1
Views: 87

A background of pretty green circles

Here is a screenshot from 2 weeks ago. http://www.readntg.org/Pictures/TextKit/GreenCircles.jpg From time to time I get a non-standard screen like this come up. Sometimes they are all green, and at other times some are this green and others are of a more yellowish green. Do other members get the sam...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:12 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A definite article to represent "One"?
Replies: 9
Views: 289

Re: A definite article to represent "One"?

Constantinus Philo wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:42 am
Χρή takes accusativus with infinitive not dativus
Callisper wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 3:54 am
jeidsath wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:35 am
@Constantinus: There is no dative in this sentence.
He was responding, with customary laconicism, to ἑκηβόλος.
Thanks. I'll correct that in the post.
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:39 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Classical Greek Recommended Word Processing Software
Replies: 22
Views: 721

Re: Classical Greek Recommended Word Processing Software

for the record I've not heard anyone doing that manage to sound like they're communicating in a language. Perhaps you can be the first. It's great that you seem to have a very clear mental model of what you want to achieve. It shouldn't take more than a decade or two of deliberate training to reach...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:26 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: A definite article to represent "One"?
Replies: 9
Views: 289

Re: A definite article to represent "One"?

The definite article is translated as "one" when it is used with a participle, as in ὁ τρέχων "the one who is running". It's fuction is to single out (identifies) an individual based on what they are doing. The English "one must", isn't actually talking about anybody in particular. It is a formal wa...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:10 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Classical Greek Recommended Word Processing Software
Replies: 22
Views: 721

Re: Classical Greek Recommended Word Processing Software

emmended[e m ended] Ha ha. My spelling is worse than Chaucer's. If you want to do the strike through thing - either e̶m̶m̶e̶n̶d̶e̶d̶ or e̷m̷m̷e̷n̷d̷e̷d̷ - you could try fsymbols . Wrt to your correction, as your post mostly explained how I can produce (not display) Greek with whatever appearance I ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:06 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Classical Greek Recommended Word Processing Software
Replies: 22
Views: 721

Re: Classical Greek Recommended Word Processing Software

Anyone able to suggest a font or other type-face in which one can t̶y̶p̶e̶ [display] Greek using the 'circumflex' symbol for a circumflex accent rather than the tilde? I don't think you're asking the right question. No offense intended, but I've emmended your question, and will answer what I have r...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:57 pm
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What's the weather like today (Ἑλληνιστί)
Replies: 3290
Views: 1028857

Re: What's the weather like today (Ἑλληνιστί)

Ὑποπτεύω αὐτὸν οὔπω ἀναγνῶναι, ὦ βέλτιστε. Καὶ ἥδε ἡ μήτηρ ὑποτεύσασα ὅτι τι ἄσχημον πέπραχεν ἡ θυγάτηρ αὐτῆς ὠτακουστεῖ καὶ κατοπτεύει πάντα ὅσα λαλεῖ καὶ γράφει, καὶ ἐπισκέπτῃ πᾶσι τοῖς ταύτῃ ὁμιλοῦσιν. http://static.plo.vn/uploaded/minhhoang/2017_04_19/phu-huynh_shql.jpg ἀλλὰ ἀνάγνουσα τὰ ἔδον γ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:32 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?
Replies: 22
Views: 795

Re: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?

I glanced at the first caption and laughed out loud. :D Perhaps Westralians have a different relationship with their sharks. If you want humorous, there are lots of cartoons with humour based on the tension betwen what we know but the characters don't know. The cartoons skew the meaning of unsuspec...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:28 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?
Replies: 22
Views: 795

Re: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?

@exorcism Continuing with the advice about what to do after you've been to the wild Greek and then turned to the LOEB, but not wanting to clutter your thread with pictures, I have put few images relating to my example mentioned above in the Agora sub-forum , along with some of my own accompanying "c...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:21 pm
Forum: The Agora
Topic: What's the weather like today (Ἑλληνιστί)
Replies: 3290
Views: 1028857

Re: What's the weather like today (Ἑλληνιστί)

https://images.thewest.com.au/publication/B88438099Z/GO5VSE53.1-0.jpg?imwidth=768&impolicy=wan_v2 οὐδὲν ὑποπτεύσαντες ἐπέμενον ἐν τῇ θαλάσσῃ https://n.sinaimg.cn/translate/w594h396/20171224/8TgC-fypyuva6752993.jpg οὐδὲν τῶν μελλόντων ὑποπτεύσασα εἶπεν τῇ μάμμῃ αὐτῆς τῇ βασιλίσσῃ σιώπα! http://laugh...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:03 pm
Forum: Open Board
Topic: Hullo
Replies: 10
Views: 374

Re: Hullo

bedwere wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:41 pm
Ἴδετε
ὁ δὲ ἔχων κάλαμον γραφικὸν χαριέντως ὑπέδησεν τὰ ποδεῖα αὐτοῦ καὶ τὰ σάνδαλα.
by ἑκηβόλος
Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:21 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?
Replies: 22
Views: 795

Re: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?

The translation is the context in which the Greeek is intelligible. CI is not limited to sensory inputs, intellectual contexts also work. "Comprehensible" and "input" can be on different occasions. Comprehensibility may take a few readings to achieve, and input (augmentation to or clarification of ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:01 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?
Replies: 22
Views: 795

Re: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?

you've chosen to go down the 'real Greek' route. Native speakers learn the language from childhood. Their language develops in tandem with their cognitive abilities. They achieve that without grammars or dictionaries. No - backwards-fudging a Loeb translation onto a sentence you didn't understand b...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:48 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?
Replies: 22
Views: 795

Re: Giving a reasonable instead of one's best effort at reading unadapted Greek?

Parsing? Is that ever more than 10% of the marks on an exam now? There was a fashion for parsing a very long time ago. Perhaps it was back when we used slide rules and tables of logarithms for complex calculations. But now, ... there are computers to aid in that. Further back, memorization was the f...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:25 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 558

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

I'd deconstruct your tripartition. If you mean that this is a simplified model, and actually different prefixed prepositions are represented in different proportions in different partitions of the model, then yes, this is the most simplified statement of the model. It is nothing novel, in fact, and...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:24 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 558

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing theinstead verb inside the subject

Hylander explained as follows: ἐγ- was not required for grammatical reasons: he used the verb ἐγκαταβιῶναι, "I have to live out my life in the midst of these misfortunes" for a semantic reason -- i.e., that was exactly the idea he was trying to express. that is, the difference between ἐγκαταβιῶναι ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 558

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

(@mwh - further to the final statement in the previous post) If I was to say that prefixed preposition perform one of three roles (as listed below), would you say that is a figment of my imagination and Joel protect the power structures of knowledge and the epistemological limits of Greek scholarshi...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:56 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 558

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

(@ ἑκηβόλος. Written earlier but not posted) δεῖ με … ἐγκαταβιῶναι ταύταις ταῖς συμφοραῖς. Your proffered alternative, δεῖ με … καταβιῶναι ταύταις ταῖς συμφοραῖς would scarcely make sense. He could have written δεῖ με καταβιῶναι ἐν ταύταις ταῖς συμφοραῖς, but the preposition was already incorporate...
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:33 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 558

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

Of course language is “structured and constructed,” as you put it. That’s in the nature of language. But people can speak without consciously making choices about the structuring and constructing of what they say, and Plutarch’s writing has less self-consciousness about it than you seem to imagine....
by ἑκηβόλος
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:47 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 558

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

ἐγκαταβιῶναι was exactly the word he wanted to use -- the mot juste . It fits perfectly. No reason to engage in speculation. Yes, without enquiry (speculation followed by contemplation, comparison, extrapolation and reevaluation) knowledge stays at a very simple level. You've made the same assertio...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:11 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 558

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

ἑκηβόλος wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:15 am
Chilonis personifies pity.
Merde! What have I done? Our generic non-native speaker friend may reply, "Yes, she is so kind."

I mean the transitive verb - anthropomorphises, not the intransitive - typifies.
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:33 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 558

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

In Hellenistic Greek one finds a lot more compound verbs where in Attic the simplex form would be used, and there is no real distinction in meaning. Why does the Apple fall? It goes to its natural place. A simple observation of what happens - apples fall, and verbs get prefixed prepositions. Allow ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:57 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 558

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. Do you really think he first thought of writing καταβιῶναι and then thought, "Well, why don't I add ἐγ- for reason a [or b or c, take your pick]"? Does anyone write like that? Okay, let me answer that obliquely. If she she was imagining living out the ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:13 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 558

Re: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

Okay. Got it. Thanks. A little further down, in the phrase; δεῖ με σοῦ βασιλεύοντος ἐν Σπάρτῃ καί νικῶντος ἐγκαταβιῶναι ταύταις ταῖς συμφοραῖς I can think of three possible reasons for adding the ἐν to the front of καταβιῶναι. Is it: a) required by the grammaticalisation of ταύταις ταῖς συμφοραῖς in...
by ἑκηβόλος
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:15 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject
Replies: 18
Views: 558

Plutarch, Agis, 17.2 placing the verb inside the subject

My question is about the position of περιτέθεικεν in the subject. In what she says in the following excerpt Chilonis personifies pity. ἁψαμένη τῶν πέπλων καὶ τῆς κόμης ἀτημελῶς ἐχόντων, ‘τοῦτο,’ εἶπεν, ‘ὦ πάτερ, ἐμοὶ τὸ σχῆμα καὶ τὴν ὄψιν οὐχ ὁ Κλεομβρότου περιτέθεικεν ἔλεος, The negative particle i...
by ἑκηβόλος
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:52 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἔστι
Replies: 22
Views: 683

Re: ἔστι

Clearly if “ἐστί” is not at the beginning of the sentence either on its own or preceded by eg οὐκ it is not emphatic. So the OP was confused about the meaning and form. LSJ uses the philosophically nuanced name "substantive verb" - ie a verb describing the essential rather than changeable propertie...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:19 pm
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἔστι
Replies: 22
Views: 683

Re: ἔστι

Do the rules or examples for the emphatic ἔστι mention whether there is only one or possibly more (nominative) nouns involved? The rule does not say. The authour is not supplying adequate explanation. (I can assure you Mastronarde has provided "adequate explanation".) Great. I don't have the book. ...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:25 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἔστι
Replies: 22
Views: 683

Re: ἔστι

The rule does not say. The authour is not supplying adequate explanation. If is unemphatic, it is translated "is" / "are" and it joins two nouns or noun phrases (singular or plural). If it is emphatic, it is translated "There is" / "There are" and it talks about the existence of one noun or noun ph...
by ἑκηβόλος
Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:05 am
Forum: Learning Greek
Topic: ἔστι
Replies: 22
Views: 683

Re: ἔστι

If ἔστι is not emphatic and precede by a proclitic, does it still go at the beginning of a sentence? No. Unemphatic ἐστι can go anywhere. Its accent is dependent on its position. Its position is not dependent on its accent. If it is emphatic it is always ἔστι and it can also move about in the sente...